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Old 04-12-2012, 10:04 PM    (permalink
BaLLiN
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Trade Osi:mid/late 2nd

1st- Cordy Glenn OL Georgia
2nd- Lamar Miller RB Miami
2nd- Dwayne Allen TE Clemson
3rd- Johnathan Massoquoi DE Troy
4th- Marcus Forston DT Miami
4th- T.J. Graham NC State
6th- Danny Trevathan LB Kentucky
7th- Vontaze Burfict LB Arizona St

Win.
Glenn probably won't happen, we like smaller and more mobile technicians which is why Zeitler is being hyped at our pick. NFLN and some other draft sites aren't as high on Glenn as ours so I wouldn't put him as an impossibility at being at our pick.

Turbin is great yeah, but what I see from Miller I like. If we could get both, I'd love that, but we can't. Miller is a guy who could be a great asset to what we do. Turbin, not as much I feel. He isn't the quickest guy (see 3 cone), and highlights aren't helping me because I don't get to see all of what he has done. As an open field runner he is good for a bigger guy, but he doesn't keep the distance from the defender and often slows up down the stretch. Miller is very speedy, patient, and turns his burst on and off while being very elusive in space.

My brother loves David Wilson, and originally I liked the kid, but the way he runs for a guy his size isn't appealing and he isn't as polished of a runner as either, not patient and doesn't run behind his blockers as well.

Coby Fleener doesn't wow me. He often runs in a straight line or runs posts, and thats all good, but I would like to see more before I draft him (probably have to at 32). Dwayne Allen isn't as fast, but is more polished as a route runner, seems more agile, and has more of a savvy to him.

Massoquoi reminds me of a poor man's JPP. He is decent in space, long limbed, sometimes uses good leverage, relentless, and really stands out in tape. Mercilus is a guy I'd give consideration to in the first, but Massoquoi seems like a guy we could turn into a good backup/potential starter.

If anything, Forston is going to be a steal in the midrounds. He just seems like a pro ready guy. Uses hands well, has experience doing multiple different stunts, postitions, and has even been used in coverage. Worthy is a first round option, as well as Still, who intrigue me and with the addition of Rivers we could add one to keep them from being covered up in the run game.

I see TJ Graham and I see someone that will be a better pro than a college player. He ran a lot of different routes in a pro system at NC State. He was the go to guy and delivered big plays. Very very good in open field and uses space to his advantage similar to Manningham in that aspect. Greg cosell said he was the best deep threat in the draft.

Trevathan seems like a guy we might target and some people mocked us. Leader, good production, but he is undersized and looks like a safety, also I don't think he has good timed speed. ST player.

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Old 04-12-2012, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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We can get a DE and keep Osi though. We can get his production this year and a guy like Mercilus or Jones for 4-5 years after he goes and they learn from him. Much better than no Osi this year, an often injured Tuck and a rookie.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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true, they probably won't even be able to afford osi, not sure if i'd want to take a flyer on burfict. All we need is another guy like T2 on the team who makes a nice tackle then slaps the guy on the helmet and gets a personal foul, drives me NUTS. So in what round do you guys take a chance on a guy like janoris jenkins, who reportedly (not surprisingly) kept smoking after he got booted from UF?

Edit: and i'm pretty sold on Kuechly being #1 on my Gmen wishlist even after the rivers deal...the instincts this kid displays...just wow.

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Old 04-14-2012, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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Chandler Jones is growing on me. Here's my reasoning:

1. It looks like Osi is gonna be gone, and Kiwi is probably not going to get re-signed either unless it's for cheap. So that leaves a big hole at DE.

2. With JPP firmly entrenched at RE, and because that's easily his best position along the line, we want to keep him there all 3 downs. We also have a lot of success moving Tuck inside on passing downs. Tuck is much better as a pass rusher when kicked inside vs outside at LE. Jones has a nasty bullrush and long arms, he can easily play LE on passing downs which allows us to kick Tuck inside and keep JPP on the outside.

3. He fits the profile of what we like on the dline. Big, long, tall, long arms. We don't like the short squat explosive guys, we want length on defense. It's obvious when you look at our defense, height and arm length are readily apparent throughout our entire defense. We like size and length.

4. While Jones hasn't shown great top end speed, he does explode out of his stance, has amazing length, and great functional strength. Like I stated before, a nasty bullrush, and if he can work on his technique coming out of his stance, I think he can really use a combination of that strength and length to really set up OL.

He kind of reminds me of Strahan in how he'll rush the passer. Mostly a bull rusher, and use the bullrush to set up his other moves.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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BBD I'm surprised you like Stephen Hill so much. He just looks so unathletic to me. Now here we out before people flip out. I know he's 6'4'' and runs in the 4.3's, but he just doesn't look smooth at all. Even the way he ran the 40 at the combine looked unathletic. His stride and the way his arms come across his chest.... just ewww. I don't really know how to put it in words. He has those "bow legs" that just look ugly. He's like that kid in high school or college who looks like a pro but can't tie his shoes or dribble a basketball to save him life.

I don't know, he just looks like a NARP to me.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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BBD I'm surprised you like Stephen Hill so much. He just looks so unathletic to me. Now here we out before people flip out. I know he's 6'4'' and runs in the 4.3's, but he just doesn't look smooth at all. Even the way he ran the 40 at the combine looked unathletic. His stride and the way his arms come across his chest.... just ewww. I don't really know how to put it in words. He has those "bow legs" that just look ugly. He's like that kid in high school or college who looks like a pro but can't tie his shoes or dribble a basketball to save him life.

I don't know, he just looks like a NARP to me.
That's interesting. It's hard to evaluate bc he didn't really run many routes in college, but when I saw him run the route tree at the combine I thought he looked pretty good. He came in and out of his breaks with speed, for a big guy he moved well. He's not going to have the hips of a Percy Harvin, but for his size he doesn't need them. His hips are good enough. He's a hands catcher too, and he goes up and fights for the ball.

I look at him as the vertical threat replacement to Mario in our offense. As long as he can run the deep patterns, that's good enough. He'll see single coverage all game anyway, so as long as he can take advantage of that deep, and I think he can, that's a good mismatch for our offense to have.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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That's interesting. It's hard to evaluate bc he didn't really run many routes in college, but when I saw him run the route tree at the combine I thought he looked pretty good. He came in and out of his breaks with speed, for a big guy he moved well. He's not going to have the hips of a Percy Harvin, but for his size he doesn't need them. His hips are good enough. He's a hands catcher too, and he goes up and fights for the ball.

I look at him as the vertical threat replacement to Mario in our offense. As long as he can run the deep patterns, that's good enough. He'll see single coverage all game anyway, so as long as he can take advantage of that deep, and I think he can, that's a good mismatch for our offense to have.
There's just something about him that looks unathletic to me. Do you know what I mean when I say that guy that looks great sitting on the couch but you take him to the court/field and he looks like a fish out of water? Obviously it's not to that extreme with Hill, he was playing major college football, and if a team is dumb enough to put a nickel corner on him 1 on 1 then he definitely should be able to win deep, but there's just something about him I don't like.

Everything he does looks awkward. Even his catches look awkward.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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There's just something about him that looks unathletic to me. Do you know what I mean when I say that guy that looks great sitting on the couch but you take him to the court/field and he looks like a fish out of water? Obviously it's not to that extreme with Hill, he was playing major college football, and if a team is dumb enough to put a nickel corner on him 1 on 1 then he definitely should be able to win deep, but there's just something about him I don't like.

Everything he does looks awkward. Even his catches look awkward.
I get what you're saying. Basically, you think he's clumsy. Some guys look like Tarzan, but then they trip over themselves. And you think he's that kind of guy.

I haven't seen all his games, so I can't really say with certainty that he's not like that, but from what I've seen on game day (limited by my own admission) and what I saw at the combine, I don't see him as a clumsy player.

What really stuck out to me was during the deep drill when he stretched out and made a finger tip catch on a poorly overthrown ball. He was the only guy there who gave that kind of effort in that drill. That really won me over.

Hes a project. He's a guy who sit for a year or 2 and develop over time. I know he has a high bust factor, I just think we have the program in place to develop him right and he has the pieces around him on our team to succeed. He won't step in and be "the guy" from day 1, which is the type of environment he needs to be in, bc he can't step in and be the guy from day 1. That's a recipe for disaster.
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:58 AM    (permalink
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Chandler Jones is growing on me. Here's my reasoning:

1. It looks like Osi is gonna be gone, and Kiwi is probably not going to get re-signed either unless it's for cheap. So that leaves a big hole at DE.

2. With JPP firmly entrenched at RE, and because that's easily his best position along the line, we want to keep him there all 3 downs. We also have a lot of success moving Tuck inside on passing downs. Tuck is much better as a pass rusher when kicked inside vs outside at LE. Jones has a nasty bullrush and long arms, he can easily play LE on passing downs which allows us to kick Tuck inside and keep JPP on the outside.

3. He fits the profile of what we like on the dline. Big, long, tall, long arms. We don't like the short squat explosive guys, we want length on defense. It's obvious when you look at our defense, height and arm length are readily apparent throughout our entire defense. We like size and length.

4. While Jones hasn't shown great top end speed, he does explode out of his stance, has amazing length, and great functional strength. Like I stated before, a nasty bullrush, and if he can work on his technique coming out of his stance, I think he can really use a combination of that strength and length to really set up OL.

He kind of reminds me of Strahan in how he'll rush the passer. Mostly a bull rusher, and use the bullrush to set up his other moves.
I think Jones is very much in the mix at 32 if he is there. Lets not forget that Kiwi and Osi come off contract after 2012 and Tuck after 2013.

The signings of Rivers and Blackburn could be an indicaton we are looking to move Kiwi back to DE.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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Does Doug Martin remind anyone of Matt Forte?
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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I see what you mean with the Forte comparison, but not really. He does have the power and speed combination very similar to Forte. He could develop into something special, I really like his potential. If Hill, Wright, Brockers, and Adams are all gone, I would be fine with either Martin, Doug or Johnathan.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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I'm not saying we grab Martin, it's just an observation. Forte was a guy in college who did everything well, but nothing great, and I see the same thing in Martin.

The value for RB in the 3rd round is gonna be great. I say we grab one in the 3rd, there's going to be a RB available in that round that is going to most likely be bpa at that spot, with RBs falling the way they do recently, we'll get tremendous value in that round.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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I'm starting to really like Dwayne Allen for our offense. He's an Hback that can actually block. We'll see what happens but thats the guy I'd like to target with our 2nd.

Regarding our first pick i have no clue now. Various OLmen seem to be shooting up draft boards (Massie and Zeitler) but I just don't buy us drafting one at the moment. Hill hype has went down as it probably should've, but I think anyone is in play besides FB, TE, QB, S, and ST. Reason why no TE is because none of these guys are really worth it. Fleener doesn't really impress me.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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Am I the only one here who loves what he sees from Mike Adams when he's on the field? Yeah he had a terrible combine and has problems with his weight, so did Andre Smith and he was a great RT last year, IMO Mike Adams is a more natural LT than Smith was, his immaturity isn't nearly as bad and our lockerroom is much stronger than Cincinnati's.
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:40 AM    (permalink
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I wouldn't hate Adams if he were the pick. Wouldn't mind Allen in the 2nd round either.

I highly doubt I'll dislike our draft this year. We can go in so many directions, and I'm fine with any of them. I'm enjoying the ride.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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Massoquoi is intriguing. He sometimes has a really good burst off the snap, sometimes shoots through holes and blows up blockers, but then there are other times where he isn't as fluid and slow off the snap while being held at bay.

Long arms, and 6'2'' so he should have pretty good leverage, but he needs to work on his strength. He has some tools but doesn't look good technique-wise and maybe our coaches can help develop him.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Actually scratch that. There is 1 pick that would piss me off. Jonathan Martin. I don't want that soft cream puff on my team.
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Old 04-17-2012, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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Agreed, I'd much rather take Massie in the first than Martin.
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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yeah, I picked Martin in the first of the forum mock, and regretted it, wishing I went Massie.
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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Eh I don't mind Martin, not my top OT that's for sure but I don't like how Massie has shot up out of no where. Where is his hype coming from?
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Eh I don't mind Martin, not my top OT that's for sure but I don't like how Massie has shot up out of no where. Where is his hype coming from?
Martin's just so smart, durable and has great ethic and comes from a pro style system. His ceiling is so damn high, like franchise LT high.

Massie I LOVE as a road grating right tackle. Solid all around and a freaking bull in the run game. I thought top 35 was too high for him, but apparently it's where his stock has gotten him
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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I'm fine with Martin, Sanu, and hopefully Turbin if he lasts a few more picks in this forum mock. That's a very solid haul.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Pre draft visit with Donta' Hightower, smokescreen maybe? I wouldn't mind him at 32.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Just due dilligence.
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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what do you think about janoris jenkins in the 2nd?
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