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Old 04-12-2012, 02:11 PM    (permalink
onejayhawk
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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Weeden wouldn't be a first round pick if he were 22 years old. I wouldn't touch him in the second round either.
If his college career had a similar track, Weeden would have been a top 10 candidate in 2007. Jamarcus Russell was universally revered, or Weeden might have had a shot at first overall.

J
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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If his college career had a similar track, Weeden would have been a top 10 candidate in 2007. Jamarcus Russell was universally revered, or Weeden might have had a shot at first overall.

J
As much as I would like to think people would prefer almost anyone over Russell, it doesn't change the fact that many were enamored with Russell's arm; dude had a cannon.

Weeden possesses nothing special about him that would make him a #1 overall pick. He MAY have been a first rounder but I still doubt it.
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Weeden is garbage and something I've read EVERYWHERE needs to be put to rest: Your age, young or old, has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING ON WETHER YOU'RE READY TO START IN THE NFL.

I'm so sick of reading "well he's 28 so he could step in right away and start!1!1!".. why? Why is that true? Why does that make any sense at all? It doesn't.

Some players can come in day one and start right away. Weeden can't.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bornnraisedwhodat View Post
I just dont see the big deal with his age. QB's start hitting thier prime between 28-32. Eli just really started hitting his prime and he is 31.
That's not his physical prime. That's his QBing prime. That's after 8 years of development in the NFL. 8 years of reading defenses. 8 years of practices. 8 years of film study.

How many hours of NFL film study has Weeden got? 0. Minutes of reading NFL defenses? 0. Seconds of development at an NFL level? 0.

Weeden's "prime" will be later, but it will also be with a much lower level of physical talent. His best hope is to be an old Kerry Collins.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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Somebody will pick him in the second round and it will be very stupid. I don't even know if he would be in my top-10 of QBs. I would rank Luck, Griffin, Osweiler, Tannehill, Lindley, B.J. Coleman, Russell Wilson, and Lindley over him. Hell, I think I'd rather use a 6th or 7th on a guy like Darron Thomas, Austin Davis, or Aaron Corp and hope they could develop into a solid backup/spot starter by their late 20s, than use a 2nd on Weeden.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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If Gabbert was a top 10 pick, Ponder pick 12, Pat White a 2nd rounder, etc. then it wouldn't surprise me Weeden being in the 1st.
It would be beyond stupid though.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Alex Smith is really a late bloomer to start being productive in his 6th year.
Fun fact of the day: Alex Smith has seven years of NFL experience, and he's younger than Brandon Weeden.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't draft him at much more than a career backup. So 3rd or later. If he were 22, never played baseball, snd managed to be as good as he is now, he's going after RG3. But he's not.
I just don't agree with that, even without the age and arm issues he just hasn't shown as much as Tannehill has. That kid's shown that he can make the toughest throws a QB is going to be asked to make, that he can move around when he's not getting good protection and extend plays and that when it all clicks he can be an excellent QB. Kid just needs to learn to do it consistently and that'll come once he's been playing QB for more than a couple years. Weeden has never shown even close to the ability to do the things a QB needs to do to be a high level NFL starter and not Mark Sanchez.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

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Old 04-12-2012, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
based on what, specifically.
Well why else would the media be saying he might be a first rounder at the age of 28? What are you, stupid?...
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Well why else would the media be saying he might be a first rounder at the age of 28?


Possibly because he grades out that way, in spite of the age. The Trent Green parallel has some validity. But the bottom line is that the guy can play. If he can play some as a rookie and start in year 2, he is worth a 1st round pick. If he can play at Pro Bowl level at any point in his career, move that up
12-15 picks. Even if he is just a 7 year back up, which is the downside, he is worth a second day pick.

J
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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he won't go in round one anymore than colt mccoy did. i don't think teams will target him like they did Dalton and Kirkpatrick a year ago. They are more likely to see how far he falls and might bite on him if he falls far enough.
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Possibly because he grades out that way, in spite of the age. The Trent Green parallel has some validity. But the bottom line is that the guy can play. If he can play some as a rookie and start in year 2, he is worth a 1st round pick. If he can play at Pro Bowl level at any point in his career, move that up
12-15 picks. Even if he is just a 7 year back up, which is the downside, he is worth a second day pick.

J
Do you honestly think he's more pro-ready than RG3 or Luck? To go in the first round, he should be that good considering he will have 6-7 less years of playing time in his career.

The immediate starter stuff is pretty much ********. The guy has OK tools but because he's 29 he is somehow more mature? In what way? Physically or mentally? His physical tools aren't any better than the other guys that are 7 years younger so it must be the mental aspect right? Guess what...you can ask Colt McCoy; mental maturity only gets you so far.

The point someone made about Alex Smith having 7 years of experience and being younger really drove the point home for me. That's seven years of NFL level preparation that Weeden can never get back.
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Onejayhawk has a huge mancrush on Weeden for some reason. He has us either taking him at 44 or trading up into the second round/late first to get him. I don't get it. He isn't ready to start and it would be a wasted pick.
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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Do you honestly think he's more pro-ready than RG3 or Luck? To go in the first round, he should be that good considering he will have 6-7 less years of playing time in his career.
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Onejayhawk has a huge mancrush on Weeden for some reason. He has us either taking him at 44 or trading up into the second round/late first to get him. I don't get it. He isn't ready to start and it would be a wasted pick.
More pro ready than RG III, absolutely. Weeden is much better at reading progressions and making the right decision. He does not have RG III's upside. More to the point, he is more pro ready than Tannehill. And he does not have6-7 less years of NFL pay. Its more like 3-5 years less.

Back in January, RT was my hot preference for the Chief's pick at #11, Trent Richardson as second choice. IIRC V was down on me then, on both counts. Weeden is just my latest, "This guy is grossly under valued; we should get him." player.

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Old 04-13-2012, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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I got to see this already; his name was Chris Weinke. It was a miserable failure.
To be fair, Weinke was better.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:52 AM    (permalink
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That's not his physical prime. That's his QBing prime. That's after 8 years of development in the NFL. 8 years of reading defenses. 8 years of practices. 8 years of film study.

How many hours of NFL film study has Weeden got? 0. Minutes of reading NFL defenses? 0. Seconds of development at an NFL level? 0.

Weeden's "prime" will be later, but it will also be with a much lower level of physical talent. His best hope is to be an old Kerry Collins.
I think you have pretty well summed up why I wouldn't want to put my faith in Weedon. Yes, through his maturity he might pick up the NFL game quicker but at what point will he be truly ready to be a really productive player. Still, some desperate QB team will likely take a shot in round 2 and hope for a quick return.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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3rd rounder, book it.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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I think you have pretty well summed up why I wouldn't want to put my faith in Weedon. Yes, through his maturity he might pick up the NFL game quicker but at what point will he be truly ready to be a really productive player. Still, some desperate QB team will likely take a shot in round 2 and hope for a quick return.
A team that wanted quick results would draft him in the 1st. He's a QB after all. Any starting QB is worth a 1st round pick. If you dont mean starting, what do you mean by "quick return"?

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Old 04-14-2012, 01:49 AM    (permalink
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A team that wanted quick results would draft him in the 1st. He's a QB after all. Any starting QB is worth a 1st round pick. If you dont mean starting, what do you mean by "quick return"?

J
QB's generally take 3 or 4 years before they can become a quality starter, in Weedon's case let's say 3 years because of his maturity, that makes him 32 before he can be truly productive in a playoff manner for his team and he is likely washed up at 35 as he already has shoulder problems. How many teams will invest a high pick for a 3 or 4 year productive career especially since there are zero guarantees he succeeds.
I just cannot see him as a 1st rounder but some team might bit out of desperation in round 2.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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are you ******* serious? based on what, exactly?

to be fair: i expect nothing, given that i already asked and was given utterly no answer until you threw out utter garbage like 'more pro ready' with absolutely nothing whatsoever to back that up. weeden is like every single other worthless third round quarterback with no upside. he does absolutely nothing well.
Exactly. And in a strange twist his age is probably an advantage. If he were 23 people would just focus on the fact he isnt very good.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. And in a strange twist his age is probably an advantage. If he were 23 people would just focus on the fact he isnt very good.
I love it. People hear he's getting talked up about going in the first two rounds even though he's old, so people assume he must be super awesome, to make up for how old he is. It's kinda beautiful watching nonsense become fact.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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I think Weeden is the solid #4 QB in this draft if he were 23 years old.

2nd/3rd rounder.

He doesn't excite me, but I can't really say he was a bad college QB.

He's got the arm, the size, decent decision-making.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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are you ******* serious? based on what, exactly?

to be fair: i expect nothing, given that i already asked and was given utterly no answer until you threw out utter garbage like 'more pro ready' with absolutely nothing whatsoever to back that up. weeden is like every single other worthless third round quarterback with no upside. he does absolutely nothing well.
Which? The easy one is that he is 5 years older than the average senior QB. Since he has had fewer hits, resulting in fewer concussions, bone spurs and other accumulative injuries, it is reasonable to make 5 years the outside of his expected potential career.

As to why he is a potential starting QB, what do you need that is not readily available? He is routinely placed as the 4th QB, with his age cited as the reason. That alone is sufficient. Then there is the numbers at OSU and the Combine. His reputation for elite intangibles. This is all a public record. What more do you want?

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I think Weeden is the solid #4 QB in this draft if he were 23 years old.
That is not very generous, since he is the solid 4th QB as it is.

J

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Old 04-14-2012, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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QB's generally take 3 or 4 years before they can become a quality starter, in Weedon's case let's say 3 years because of his maturity, that makes him 32 before he can be truly productive in a playoff manner for his team and he is likely washed up at 35 as he already has shoulder problems. How many teams will invest a high pick for a 3 or 4 year productive career especially since there are zero guarantees he succeeds.
I just cannot see him as a 1st rounder but some team might bit out of desperation in round 2.
You make a small error and a couple of large assumptions. The small error is that three years from now he will be 31. He will not turn 32 til the midway point of the season. Your first large assumption is that he will be washed up at 35. What is your basis for that? Your second large assumption is that it would matter if true. If a team thinks he will be a quality starter in three years, why would they not invest a late 1st round pick? We have a long line of examples where teams paid a 1st round pick for 1-2 years of good QB play.

J
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