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Old 04-09-2012, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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Teams that can get him i na match-up on a Tight End or RB will have success. If he has to consistently line-up against an NFL CALIBER Tackle, he will get DOMINATED.

Any 4-3 Team that drafts him is gettign a 2 down player to help stop the run.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:41 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Inspector71 View Post
If he has to consistently line-up against an NFL CALIBER Tackle, he will get DOMINATED.
see his film against Cordy Glenn or Mike Adams... i question if that's true.
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
He's just a guy that can hold his ground, shed a block and make a tackle.
Oh, is that all?
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by NorrinRadd12 View Post
Oh, is that all?
People get so caught up in sacks they forget the value of a guy that maintains gaps exceptionally well.

If you ask a pro coach to choose between a guy that will give you 12 sacks a year and the missed plays/wide open gaps caused by him going for those sacks or a guy that will give you 4 or 5 a year and rarely give up his gap.. they're taking the latter and laughing at you.

The argument would be that you want both.. but those players are incredibly rare. Maybe 4 or 5 in the league right now.

Look at Clay Matthews. He had 6 sacks this year. But any Packers fan will tell you his play didn't drop off; he made tons of plays that don't show up on stat sheets but are worth as much or more than a sack.

Upshaw is not Clay Matthews. What Upshaw can be, though, is a fantastic 4-3 DE for a defense that has other pass rushing forces. He'll win some 1 on 1s and he will control his side of the line and make solid plays that don't show up on stat sheets.
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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Would Chicago have any interest in him to play opposite Peppers? Maybe the Bengals take him if he falls to 21.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by NorrinRadd12 View Post
Oh, is that all?
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Originally Posted by Sportsfan486 View Post
People get so caught up in sacks they forget the value of a guy that maintains gaps exceptionally well.

If you ask a pro coach to choose between a guy that will give you 12 sacks a year and the missed plays/wide open gaps caused by him going for those sacks or a guy that will give you 4 or 5 a year and rarely give up his gap.. they're taking the latter and laughing at you.

The argument would be that you want both.. but those players are incredibly rare. Maybe 4 or 5 in the league right now.

Look at Clay Matthews. He had 6 sacks this year. But any Packers fan will tell you his play didn't drop off; he made tons of plays that don't show up on stat sheets but are worth as much or more than a sack.

Upshaw is not Clay Matthews. What Upshaw can be, though, is a fantastic 4-3 DE for a defense that has other pass rushing forces. He'll win some 1 on 1s and he will control his side of the line and make solid plays that don't show up on stat sheets.
Guys with his talent level shouldn't go in the top fifteen. He's a solid starter anywhere in the league, but he's not an impact player, a difference maker. That's what you're shooting for in the first round. I'd gladly take him at the top of the second.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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He's a Ted backer to me.
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:13 AM    (permalink
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I remember when Brandon Spikes couldn't be an effective player and wasn't going to get drafted.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DrewyVuitton View Post
I remember when Brandon Spikes couldn't be an effective player and wasn't going to get drafted.
I like Spikes but he has a limited skillset that is managed off the field by the smartest defensive coach in the league and compensated for on the field by a much more physically talented running mate. Spikes was the #62 player picked in his class and the next 3-4 ILB picked was at #79. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for a player people are trying to find a home for in the top 20 as an outside pass rusher. I said it earlier Upshaw's only position is 3-4ILB.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
Guys with his talent level shouldn't go in the top fifteen. He's a solid starter anywhere in the league, but he's not an impact player, a difference maker. That's what you're shooting for in the first round. I'd gladly take him at the top of the second.
I definitely agree with that. He's not a top fifteen guy. His upside is limited, unless he lowers his weight and somehow that gives him a sizeable boost in athleticism.

I would take Coples, Ingram, Curry and then Upshaw. So mid-second. I don't think Nick Perry is a DE.

The reality, however, is that some team will watch that dominant Alabama defense and overrate Upshaw, who is being billed it's best defender by a number of people. I'd be shocked if he makes it out of the top 25.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Is Upshaw the kind of player that Scouts like more than draft watchers?

Upshaw to me seems like the type of player that scouts love because he is tough, nasty and plays hard all the time. This guy is like a pit bull on the field and some teams, like the Ravens and the Jets love that, perhaps he is lower on the internet than he is on teams boards.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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For the Bears

With Peppers, as the elite pass rusher, maybe the Bears do not need to take the risk searching for a freak pass rusher because they bust out a lot. Maybe the need a relentless SOB that is going to collapse the pocket and attack at 110% the entire game.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JohnCandy View Post
Is Upshaw the kind of player that Scouts like more than draft watchers?

Upshaw to me seems like the type of player that scouts love because he is tough, nasty and plays hard all the time. This guy is like a pit bull on the field and some teams, like the Ravens and the Jets love that, perhaps he is lower on the internet than he is on teams boards.
I agree, Upshaw has suburb instincts as well and some team will take a flyer on him but I think it will be a 3-4 team because at 6'1", he will have serious problems as a 4-3 DE. ILB isn't out of the equation for this guy either.
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:53 AM    (permalink
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Just for clarification, I didnt say he will fall to the 3rd but rather if he did, it wouldnt surprise me much.
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:15 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Here's how Upshaw's numbers compare to LaMarr Woodley's (the player many people believe Upshaw is):

Upshaw/Woodley:

Height: 6015 / 6014
Weight: 279 / 266
40-yard: 4.79 / 4.74
Bench: 22 / 29
Vertical: 27.5" / 38.5"
Broad: 9'1" / 9'9"
Shuttle: 4.6 / 4.42
Cone: 7.73 / N/A
What is the problem with this? Sure Upshaw is not some workout warrior, but would could anyone argue, not looking at the combine numbers, Upshaw was the best pass rusher on the best defense in the nation. Kid was sick, and crazy productive, 11 QB hurries, 8.5 sacks, 45 tackles, 17 tackles for a loss. He was even better than the season before. Sure is not some elite athlete but I doubt he is going to flat fail in the NFL. And I think he can play outside linebacker with some work and improvement in his overall conditioning. James Harrison is another, Harrison is quicker but he is only 6-0 243. Being short in some ways gives them an advantage because they can get under a tackle and cause hell. So his height for me is almost a none issue, especially in a 3/4.
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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What is the problem with this? Sure Upshaw is not some workout warrior, but would could anyone argue, not looking at the combine numbers, Upshaw was the best pass rusher on the best defense in the nation. Kid was sick, and crazy productive, 11 QB hurries, 8.5 sacks, 45 tackles, 17 tackles for a loss. He was even better than the season before. Sure is not some elite athlete but I doubt he is going to flat fail in the NFL. And I think he can play outside linebacker with some work and improvement in his overall conditioning. James Harrison is another, Harrison is quicker but he is only 6-0 243. Being short in some ways gives them an advantage because they can get under a tackle and cause hell. So his height for me is almost a none issue, especially in a 3/4.
Upshaw's problems as an OLB in a 3-4 lies in his inability to drop back in pass coverage. His workouts exposed this weakness but he can still be successful on a 3-4 team that only asks him to rush the passer. Unfortunately, that severely limits the # of teams that might draft him as his skill set matches far more favourably as a 4-3 DE, but there, height is also a severe limitation.
IMO, he there is a chance he falls to round 2 but there is also a strong possibility that his skill set will suit a particular team and they will draft him somewhere in the 18-25 range. Comparing him to Woodley or Harrison is a waste of time, you have to find a system where he fits.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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What is the problem with this? Sure Upshaw is not some workout warrior, but would could anyone argue, not looking at the combine numbers, Upshaw was the best pass rusher on the best defense in the nation. Kid was sick, and crazy productive, 11 QB hurries, 8.5 sacks, 45 tackles, 17 tackles for a loss. He was even better than the season before. Sure is not some elite athlete but I doubt he is going to flat fail in the NFL. And I think he can play outside linebacker with some work and improvement in his overall conditioning. James Harrison is another, Harrison is quicker but he is only 6-0 243. Being short in some ways gives them an advantage because they can get under a tackle and cause hell. So his height for me is almost a none issue, especially in a 3/4.
Of all the positions and all the Combine workouts, vertical jump and pass rushers is one of the most telling stats. The good pass rushers almost universally clear at least 35" in the vertical jump and the very best ones get to 40". Almost every bust of an early pick pass rusher had a less than 30" vertical.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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manny lawson was 1/2 inch from 40 :(
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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Nick Perry will be better than Upshaw in a 3-4.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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Of all the positions and all the Combine workouts, vertical jump and pass rushers is one of the most telling stats. The good pass rushers almost universally clear at least 35" in the vertical jump and the very best ones get to 40". Almost every bust of an early pick pass rusher had a less than 30" vertical.
That and the broad jump. And even his 20 to some extent. None of which are impressive or even compare to Woodley's. And it jives with the film concerns that we see (lack of an elite get-off/burst). His production is much more a product of being a high effort, relentless player.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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JPP had a 30.5 vert.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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JPP had a 30.5 vert.
Derrick Harvey jumped 28.5 and Robert Ayers jumped 29.5. :P
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Old 04-22-2012, 11:07 PM    (permalink
jojo
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Derrick Harvey jumped 28.5 and Robert Ayers jumped 29.5. :P
And Andrew Luck out jumped ultra-athlete QB Cam Newton, & his 40 time almost as good, who knew? So much for jumps.

Courtney Upshaw (thread title, refocusing) the more I think about it belongs with Bellichick in NE & let him move hi8m around like his protege Nick Saban did. Got to improve that anemic Pats pass rush, & physically overwhelming blockers to get to the QB was what he did best in college. And the Pats have 4 picks in the 1st 2 rds. to do it.

Last edited by jojo : 04-23-2012 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 04-22-2012, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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And Andrew Luck out jumped ultra-athlete QB Cam Newton, & his 40 time almost as good, who knew? So much for jumps.
I wasn't trying to make a point there. I was simply playing the contrarian. But to say that lower body explosiveness is just as (ir)relevant for QB's as it is pass rushers is simply untrue.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:41 AM    (permalink
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I wasn't trying to make a point there. I was simply playing the contrarian. But to say that lower body explosiveness is just as (ir)relevant for QB's as it is pass rushers is simply untrue.
It's really important for QB prospects you plan to convert to DE though.
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