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Old 04-24-2012, 04:16 PM    (permalink
jojo
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Im starting to think Fleener goes before 30.
Me too. Not a lot the team can do about that. He's a Graham-type TE & the best at his position in this draft.

TE is the one offensive slot that has exponentially increased in value & have been taken earlier & more frequently. They mave not have that option, go for OG
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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I think my man crush on Marvin Jones is well known around here but the kid just sounds like a kid he gets it.....

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...SP5P1O7RLA.DTL

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Old 04-24-2012, 04:56 PM    (permalink
Brent
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
Smh....I REALLY hope Jenkins isnt on our radar. Cox is enough of a potential problem. What are we the new Bengals? Leave these knuckleheads for someone else. I can understand one incident on kids resume. Being arrested 3 times before your 22nd birthday is just too much for me. Seriously....don't do it.
A bar fight and two for possession of weed. I think with the leadership on defense, it wouldn't be a shocking pick if the team is comfortable with what they've seen from him.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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A bar fight and two for possession of weed. I think with the leadership on defense, it wouldn't be a shocking pick if the team is comfortable with what they've seen from him.

I dont care what it was, I've never heard of a prospect being aressted 3 times. I'd rather have Gilmore or Boykin.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by H.O.O.D
If we pass on him for another player or prospect, maybe just maybe he is not the highest rated player on our board when we are OTC. Maybe this staff sees him as a 2nd round value, or doesn't value him as much as some other players. Just because of the familiarity with JH and the offense and because some experts and analysts are of the mind set that Fleener could go in round one does not mean out staff is going to be or has to be on that same page.

Jim Harbaugh does not have to grade Fleener as a good value at 30. If he feels Fleeners value is lower than that and we don't take him or attempt to move down a little from 30 or up from our 2nd round pick to land him so be it.

I wouldn't hate Fleener at 30, but your expectations are not realistic IMHO, and you may be setting yourself to be extremely disappointed Thursday night.
I'm sure that Fleener isnt the highest rated player on the board but by the time its our pick, he most likely will be or should be. I do think that Fleener will be gone before 30 but if he's not, he's the best pick for us at 30. We need offense and there's no other player who'll make the same kind of impact. Hill is second on my list but I wouldnt choose him over Fleener for various reasons. I have seen highlights of Fleener including him blocking and to me, he's the best option at 30 if he's there. An OG is a bigger need but an OG you can find in mid rounds, a Jimmy Graham type TE who'll add a lot more to our offense is far more valuable.

You say that you wouldnt hate Fleener at 30 but obviously, im assuming you prefer someone else. Who would that be? I think my expectations are very realistic because when you look at the options on paper, Fleener is easily the best option. A rookie WR isnt going to help us NOW.....I want an offensive weapon who'll help us NOW.....not two years from now. If we draft Fleener, Hill, an OG or trade out of the first round (in that order), I'll be disappointed that we didnt draft the guy I wanted but I'll be happy because at least its not a defensive player. I'll be pissed if Fleener, Hill or an OG is available at 30 and we go defense. We NEED offense, not defense. Fleener is the best option for our offense and should help improve it easily and far more than any rookie WR would.

Oh well, two more days to go and we'll see.
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Old 04-24-2012, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
I think my man crush on Marvin Jones is well known around here but the kid just sounds like a kid he gets it.....

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...SP5P1O7RLA.DTL
I hope we get Mr. Jones.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brent View Post
A bar fight and two for possession of weed. I think with the leadership on defense, it wouldn't be a shocking pick if the team is comfortable with what they've seen from him.
It would be similar to what his brother did last draft when the Ravens took Jimmy Smith, who (among other things) failed 3 drug tests and had an arrest.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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Jenkins did look very good at the Combine workouts against other elite players at his position. It's a risk, but so is Hill, who I'm still leaning toward more so than Fleener. Fleener has skills and is the best in a position that is shallow in talent this year, but he's no Graham-type of prospect like jojo was suggesting.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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So here's my mock. Let me know what you think

R1- Doug Martin, RB
R2- Chris Givens, WR
R3- Brandon Hardin, S
R4- Brandon Washington, OG
R5- Miles Burris, OLB
R6- Nicholas Jean-Baptise, NT
R7- Coty Sensabaugh, CB

UDFA's

-Chris Owosu, WR
-Jason Slowey, C
-Jordan Bernstine, S

For pick 30, i think we like Stephen Hill, Doug Martin, and Amini Solatalu. Janoris Jenkins and Fleener also seem to be options. I also personally like AJ Jenkins, and he's poised to go mid-round 2. Getting him at 30 would be a slight reach but worth it IMO.

I think if all these prospects are at 30..Hill would be the pick. But i expect Hill to go before 30.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? View Post
It would be similar to what his brother did last draft when the Ravens took Jimmy Smith, who (among other things) failed 3 drug tests and had an arrest.
Failing drug tests is bad(Smith's drug of choice was codeine) but I can overlook that to some extent. Brooks failed two at UVA. They said Manningham failed at least 4 at Michigan. Some athletes do it and I understand that. But to be dumb enough to get arrested for it TWICE just boggles my mind. I know ppl that have been blazing for years.....I mean decades. Never been arrested or so much as cited. I just think you have to be a complete dumb ass to get busted for weed twice in the span of 18 months.

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Old 04-24-2012, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87 View Post
So here's my mock. Let me know what you think

R1- Doug Martin, RB
R2- Chris Givens, WR
R3- Brandon Hardin, S
R4- Brandon Washington, OG
R5- Miles Burris, OLB
R6- Nicholas Jean-Baptise, NT
R7- Coty Sensabaugh, CB

UDFA's

-Chris Owosu, WR
-Jason Slowey, C
-Jordan Bernstine, S

For pick 30, i think we like Stephen Hill, Doug Martin, and Amini Solatalu. Janoris Jenkins and Fleener also seem to be options. I also personally like AJ Jenkins, and he's poised to go mid-round 2. Getting him at 30 would be a slight reach but worth it IMO.

I think if all these prospects are at 30..Hill would be the pick. But i expect Hill to go before 30.
Everything I could live with except Givens. I think he's gonna be Arnaz Battle at the next level. Solid guy but not a real threat on the outside. I was never overly impressed the times when I watched him play at Wake. And I think the 2nd is a bit of a reach for him but who knows. Love the Jean-Baptise pick. He's not a guy being talked about alot but has definte potential.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Everything I could live with except Givens. I think he's gonna be Arnaz Battle at the next level. Solid guy but not a real threat on the outside. I was never overly impressed the times when I watched him play at Wake. And I think the 2nd is a bit of a reach for him but who knows. Love the Jean-Baptise pick. He's not a guy being talked about alot but has definte potential.
Thanks for the feedback. I put Givens there because i heard Cosell raving about him earlier. I would ideally want AJ Jenkins in the 2nd but i think he's going to go top 50. Maybe Marvin Jones is another option at 61.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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I'll toss out some nonsense from an old guy who doesn't know much.

1) Zeitler
2) Derek Wolfe
3) Marvin Jones

Am I somewhat reasonable or a complete moron?
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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I'll toss out some nonsense from an old guy who doesn't know much.

1) Zeitler
2) Derek Wolfe
3) Marvin Jones

Am I somewhat reasonable or a complete moron?
That would be good pickups.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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I'll toss out some nonsense from an old guy who doesn't know much.

1) Zeitler
2) Derek Wolfe
3) Marvin Jones

Am I somewhat reasonable or a complete moron?
You may be a complete moron but not because of these picks.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:03 AM    (permalink
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You may be a complete moron but not because of these picks.
I appreciate your support (I think).
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:31 AM    (permalink
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Thanks for the feedback. I put Givens there because i heard Cosell raving about him earlier. I would ideally want AJ Jenkins in the 2nd but i think he's going to go top 50. Maybe Marvin Jones is another option at 61.
Dont put too much stock into anything Cosell says. He also said All-Done was a bad pick last year because he wouldnt be a great pass-rusher at the next level. He's a guy who watches a ton of film and thinks he's this guru all of sudden. He's no talent evaluator.
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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Yesterday, I wasn't quite sold on Fleener. Today, I'm feeling much better about him or an O-Lineman at 30 as the WR position is strong and very deep this year and I believe the Niners could get another productive or developmental WR in the middle/later rounds. CB is also pretty deep in the middle rounds as well.

If it's a "surprise" pick like many of us believe, I think that it will be a pass rushing OLB or a Safety.

EDIT:
And on cue, Maiocco make the case to wait on WR after Round 1 on today's blog entry:

http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-s...62&feedID=5936
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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Dont put too much stock into anything Cosell says. He also said All-Done was a bad pick last year because he wouldnt be a great pass-rusher at the next level. He's a guy who watches a ton of film and thinks he's this guru all of sudden. He's no talent evaluator.
Did he say that on his blog about Aldon? I'd be interested in reading his write up.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
I'm sure that Fleener isnt the highest rated player on the board but by the time its our pick, he most likely will be or should be. I do think that Fleener will be gone before 30 but if he's not, he's the best pick for us at 30. We need offense and there's no other player who'll make the same kind of impact. Hill is second on my list but I wouldnt choose him over Fleener for various reasons. I have seen highlights of Fleener including him blocking and to me, he's the best option at 30 if he's there. An OG is a bigger need but an OG you can find in mid rounds, a Jimmy Graham type TE who'll add a lot more to our offense is far more valuable.

You say that you wouldnt hate Fleener at 30 but obviously, im assuming you prefer someone else. Who would that be? I think my expectations are very realistic because when you look at the options on paper, Fleener is easily the best option. A rookie WR isnt going to help us NOW.....I want an offensive weapon who'll help us NOW.....not two years from now. If we draft Fleener, Hill, an OG or trade out of the first round (in that order), I'll be disappointed that we didnt draft the guy I wanted but I'll be happy because at least its not a defensive player. I'll be pissed if Fleener, Hill or an OG is available at 30 and we go defense. We NEED offense, not defense. Fleener is the best option for our offense and should help improve it easily and far more than any rookie WR would.

Oh well, two more days to go and we'll see.
You don't know if a rookie WR can help us now or not. Every player adapts at their own rate. Just because he (Fleener) has an understanding of the offense doesn't mean he will quickly adapt to the bigger stronger faster and smarter defenders and defenses at the pro level. And his biggest weakness his blocking is a real concern when it comes to impact and playing time as a rookie. Fleener still would have to earn that PT, and his blocking may prevent him from seeing the field or seeing much if any PT in 2 TE sets. He could be limited to three TE sets and obvious passing situations only IF that.

You expectations are unrealistic because :

1- You are assuming that we have him ranked as a prospect in that 30 range, but for all you know he isn't viewed that high.

2- You keep saying Jimmy Graham, however Jimmy didn't really come one until this year...in his rookie year he flashed yes, but never truly IMPACTED as a rookie.

3- A defensive player can help us now, just as an offensive player in the 2nd or 3rd or even later rounds can. Just looking at WR's : Greg Little, Desean Jackson, Mike Williams, Johnny Knox, Greg Jennings and Mohamed Massaquoi are a few guys that had an impact on their respective teams as rookies. They may not have had ROTY type campaigns, but they were able to help their teams.

We lack depth at pass rush (and you can never have too many pass rushers), and could use competition at corner. And if a guy like Poe falls to 30, I'd think we would have to give consideration, maybe even consider moving up at some point if he fell past 20 to try and get him. We are in the 2nd year of this regime, and should be drafting the BPA for this team going forward and not the player who will make the biggest impact this year. This team is not in "must win now" mode.

I don't prefer any one player in particular, there are a number of guys who I would be OK with. I'm not rooting for any one guy, moreso I am rooting for us to not take certain guys at 30 ie Zeitler, Jeffery, B.Thompson, Brockers, J.Jenkins, Still etc.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:14 PM    (permalink
WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
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Originally Posted by Ness View Post
Did he say that on his blog about Aldon? I'd be interested in reading his write up.
http://www.examiner.com/article/cose...#ixzz1t4qHW3Px

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The concern with me (about Smith) is that he has the tendency to play too upright and if you do that in the NFL you get driven out because it's not college football, (in the NFL) you're playing against men. He's going to have to work on that. If he loses leverage he will not be able to use any of his athleticsm or power because he'll just be driven out (away from the play) as a stand up guy."

Cosell agreed, adding that "a lot of his sacks (in college) came from the inside, when he beat guards, and not that many came from the outside."

"People look at his size - height, weight and all of that - and just assume he's an outside backer," said Cosell, who added that you really need to look at all the tape on Smith in order to get an accurate gauge on his ability.
My favorite take was from Dave Razzano
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2...ise-selection/

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* Dave Razzano, Bleacher Report (he rated Smith as second most overrated player behind Cam Newton): “To me this is a tweener type player. Meaning he lacks strength to play on the line or movement in space. Underwhelming as a pass rusher as well. The question remains where do you play this guy?”
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:55 PM    (permalink
dan77733
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Originally Posted by H.O.O.D View Post
You don't know if a rookie WR can help us now or not. Every player adapts at their own rate. Just because he (Fleener) has an understanding of the offense doesn't mean he will quickly adapt to the bigger stronger faster and smarter defenders and defenses at the pro level. And his biggest weakness his blocking is a real concern when it comes to impact and playing time as a rookie. Fleener still would have to earn that PT, and his blocking may prevent him from seeing the field or seeing much if any PT in 2 TE sets. He could be limited to three TE sets and obvious passing situations only IF that.

You expectations are unrealistic because :

1- You are assuming that we have him ranked as a prospect in that 30 range, but for all you know he isn't viewed that high.

2- You keep saying Jimmy Graham, however Jimmy didn't really come one until this year...in his rookie year he flashed yes, but never truly IMPACTED as a rookie.

3- A defensive player can help us now, just as an offensive player in the 2nd or 3rd or even later rounds can. Just looking at WR's : Greg Little, Desean Jackson, Mike Williams, Johnny Knox, Greg Jennings and Mohamed Massaquoi are a few guys that had an impact on their respective teams as rookies. They may not have had ROTY type campaigns, but they were able to help their teams.

We lack depth at pass rush (and you can never have too many pass rushers), and could use competition at corner. And if a guy like Poe falls to 30, I'd think we would have to give consideration, maybe even consider moving up at some point if he fell past 20 to try and get him. We are in the 2nd year of this regime, and should be drafting the BPA for this team going forward and not the player who will make the biggest impact this year. This team is not in "must win now" mode.

I don't prefer any one player in particular, there are a number of guys who I would be OK with. I'm not rooting for any one guy, moreso I am rooting for us to not take certain guys at 30 ie Zeitler, Jeffery, B.Thompson, Brockers, J.Jenkins, Still etc.
Receivers normally take a few years to adapt to the NFL unless its an elite Calvin Johnson, A.J. Green type receiver.

I said that by the time its our turn, Fleener could be the highest player available since others are already gone.

Agree with Graham but huge difference, Fleener has Vernon Davis in front of him to learn from even more which is why I think that he'll make an impact. I still believe that he would make a bigger impact than any of our receivers and Walker. As for his blocking, people say he's weak in that area, I have seen some plays with him blocking and every one had him pushing away the defender with ease.

I dont think that a defensive player is needed at 30. Our defense is one of the best overall, our offense sucks. Common sense tells me to build the offense and make it better. We do need some depth on defense but a backup safety and a DL can be taken in other rounds. None of them would start anyway so whats the point?

Pass rushers? We have Smith, Brooks and Haralson. Drafting an OLB in the first three rounds is a bigger waste than those who say the same thing about Fleener at 30. An OLB on Saturday for special teams is all thats needed. ILB is set with Willis, Bowman, Grant and Gooden. CB is set with Brown, Rogers, Culliver and Brock. I would still draft a CB between rounds 1-3 but it depends on who's there and who's available at more needed positions. QB and RB are also set.

RG is our biggest need but I wouldnt draft any OG over Fleener or Hill. If they're both gone, then I would rather have the OG instead of a defensive player. Its a passing league and its becoming that way more and more. We have the running game and defense and special teams but our passing offense sucks. We need weapons. I would love Fleener and Hill but thats not going to happen. I prefer Fleener over Hill for various reasons but would be happy with Hill if Fleener is gone.

Oh well, Less than 30 hours and we'll see what happens.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? View Post
Ah yes....thanx WWBBD. The two players he had as overated had arguably the biggest impact of all rookies on offense and defense. The guy is a joke.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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@H.O.O.D

Im interested in knowing why you dont want Zeitler....is it the position or the player?
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
@H.O.O.D

Im interested in knowing why you dont want Zeitler....is it the position or the player?
player. good player, solid starter for 10 years. but not a great player imo and would be better value on a trade back or we could wait until 2nd/3rd to address rg and still get a solid interior lineman. think there should be better prospects still on the board at 30.
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