Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > 2014 NFL Draft Forum

2014 NFL Draft Forum Discuss the 2014 NFL Draft

View Poll Results: What did you think of the Bruce Irvin pick?
Bad pick because there were MANY better players, including pass rushers, on the board. 32 28.57%
Bad pick because of his character red flags. He'll do something stupid. 5 4.46%
Bad pick because he's simply not that good/a development project. 6 5.36%
Bad pick because he's developmental AND has character issues. Too risky. He'll flame out. 26 23.21%
Good pick, but one or two other DEs would have been better. 21 18.75%
Great pick, best pass rusher. NFL knew, media didn't. Perfect fit. He'll prove 'em all wrong. 22 19.64%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-28-2012, 10:11 AM    (permalink
WCH
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,760
Reputation: 3189990
WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
I think Shane's rant makes me like this pick more than I already do. Irvin's perfect for that Chris Clemons role and should give the seahawks a perennial double digit sack guy.
I like the guy. He was my sleeper pass rusher (or course, I obviously didn't think he'd be such a high pick, and I lol'd along with everybody else when the pick was announced).

I wouldn't be shocked if this is one of those picks that makes us all look stupid a few years down the road.
WCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 10:20 AM    (permalink
tjsunstein
Mr. Rodgers' Neighborhood
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Resident Clippers fan
Posts: 15,640
Reputation: 1135003
tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I love the pick and I haven't been shy about it. The best pass rusher in the draft, that alone is worth a top 15 pick especially with the flaws and uncertainties with the rest of the OLB class. Now, that's not to say that Irvin doesn't have flaws of his own. The character concerns are overblown. Things that happened 5 years ago are being talked about like they happened over last offseason. Irvin is pure talent, with very little coaching at WVU on how to play his position. He's going to take some time to develop into a complete player and he needs to add some weight. You're not going to see Irvin making his presence felt against the run, and he's someone that you're going to have to supplement while he learns but he can be a 3 down player in the future. No one is a finished product coming out of college but with his athleticism and pure ability to get after the QB, I don't see a problem with taking a guy who can be a 2 down player for you immediately without any real obligation to play him more than that.

He's a top 15 pick, but people are going to have to learn how to temper expectations for him. He's raw, and he may not reach his full potential until year 3 or 4 but he can get after the QB week 1 and will continue to work.

Maybe I'm a bit more optimistic than most but I've been hyping Irvin since the preseason and I haven't seen anything to make me believe the hype isn't real.
__________________

tjsunstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 10:34 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,425
Reputation: 1183720
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

People act like Bruce Irvin was the only guy in the first round drafted mainly because of his potential and upside.

It's hard to turn your nose up at an OLB/rush DE who's 6'3, 245# and ran an electronic 4.43.

I have a feeling Pete Carroll is going to have Irvin rushing from multiple points up and down the oline, standing up and with his hand in the dirt.
If he doesn't blow up in the pros, it won't be for lack of scheming him properly.

(Taylor Mays should switch positions.)
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 10:50 AM    (permalink
Babylon
Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,363
Reputation: 3037833
Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxXdragonXxX View Post
The fact that the Jets, Ravens and Niners were said to all be targeting Irvin in the 1st round makes me feel really good about the pick. Thats the 3rd, 4th and 5th rated defenses in the NFL.

Oh and the fact that the team that actually took him built a 9th rated defense by plugging in guys that nobody else seemed to want...yeah I think they can evaluate defensive talent.
Not sure i'd confuse rumors with fact as far as all these other teams being interested, teams are interested in a lot of guys, doesnt mean they'd pull the trigger on them.

Nevertheless i'm warming to the pick. I think Irvin can be effective as a situational pass rusher but i'm getting half tired of drafting guys that come with baggage. I guess bringing back Leroy Hill proves that is not a concern to the front office.

On a more annoying topic, someone explain wasting a 3rd on Russell Wilson.
Babylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 10:59 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,742
Reputation: 1646716
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
People act like Bruce Irvin was the only guy in the first round drafted mainly because of his potential and upside.It's hard to turn your nose up at an OLB/rush DE who's 6'3, 245# and ran an electronic 4.43.

I have a feeling Pete Carroll is going to have Irvin rushing from multiple points up and down the oline, standing up and with his hand in the dirt.
If he doesn't blow up in the pros, it won't be for lack of scheming him properly.

(Taylor Mays should switch positions.)
Exactly. People can say what they want about perceived value and where a prospect is drafted, but not a lot of guys in the draft have the ability to do what Irvin can do.

If Irvin is a horrible pick then so is Poe, Brockers, Jones etc. These guys don't have "first round tape" but got drafted mainly on upside. Hell until NFL evaluators came out a few weeks ago about Chandler Jones most people had him at best a mid second rounder.

I really don't agree with the term reach because nobody knows what other teams are going to do. If you like a prospect enough you take him so another team doesn't. It happens all the time. Most people have such and such a prospect as a third rounder and some team takes him in the second. The media heads and draftniks say things like they could have taken him a round later blah blah blah. Why risk it? If Irvin is the best fit for what they need then why not take him? 31 teams may think Coples is a better player for them but obviously the Seahawks didn't.

I see no issue with the pick. If Irvin pans out then they look like geniuses. If he doesn't then they don't but teams miss on picks all the time.
__________________


BoneKrusher killing it with the sig
AntoinCD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 01:10 PM    (permalink
thetedginnshow
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 12,187
Reputation: 214818
thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
Not sure i'd confuse rumors with fact as far as all these other teams being interested, teams are interested in a lot of guys, doesnt mean they'd pull the trigger on them.

Nevertheless i'm warming to the pick. I think Irvin can be effective as a situational pass rusher but i'm getting half tired of drafting guys that come with baggage. I guess bringing back Leroy Hill proves that is not a concern to the front office.

On a more annoying topic, someone explain wasting a 3rd on Russell Wilson.
Though I have faith in Flynn and personally think they should have built around him, some people are really high on Wilson. You don't necessarily know Flynn will be good, so having that competition would serve them well. I don't know. Wilson has the capability of overcoming his height deficiency, and if he can, that could be an excellent pick in retrospect.
__________________
Ohio State Buckeyes Duke Blue Devils New York Jets St. Louis Cardinals San Jose Sharks Seattle Sonics
thetedginnshow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 01:22 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,113
Reputation: 287181
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Pete Carroll had better be able to handle this guy. He's spent time in jail and was only a part time starter for West Virginia. Sure, he has a huge upside but that is hoping that everything goes perfectly and I just don't see it happening in the real world.
This guy has huge warts and there is no way you can justify him going this high. When problem childern are handed a million dollars, look out, because trouble is sure to follow.
I can see him being worth the financial risk in round 2 but there is no way he deserved to be taken in round 1 as a part time player. I really see no justification for it except Carroll's belief that he can handle this problem child and experience shows these kinds of picks usually don't workout. Good luck Pete, your going to need it.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 01:40 PM    (permalink
YAYareaRB
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,206
Reputation: 496749
YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.YAYareaRB is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I have my doubts on that report about SF taking Irvin. Baalke had AJ Jenkins name in an envelope the night before the draft
__________________


YAYareaRB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 02:33 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seahawks Diaspora
Posts: 4,921
Reputation: 1586928
Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Pete Carroll had better be able to handle this guy. He's spent time in jail and was only a part time starter for West Virginia. Sure, he has a huge upside but that is hoping that everything goes perfectly and I just don't see it happening in the real world.
This guy has huge warts and there is no way you can justify him going this high. When problem childern are handed a million dollars, look out, because trouble is sure to follow.
I can see him being worth the financial risk in round 2 but there is no way he deserved to be taken in round 1 as a part time player. I really see no justification for it except Carroll's belief that he can handle this problem child and experience shows these kinds of picks usually don't workout. Good luck Pete, your going to need it.
This just sounds like a person who doesn't know a whole lot about Pete Carroll or the Seahawks defense, or Bruce Irvin for that matter. Anyone can do a google search and see that he's been arrested. He's not a huge financial risk because of restructuring, and he's a perfect fit for what we want to do. People can dis it all they want; if you look in Seahawks team forums you see the fans are excited after watching the tape and digging a little deeper. The same fans were pissed when we took Carpenter last year - the positive responses you're hearing aren't just bandwagon fans cheering whoever their team picks.
Caulibflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 02:41 PM    (permalink
P-L
Head Moderator
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 30,577
Reputation: 1108093
P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I don't think Bruce Irvin was as big of a reach as James Carpenter was last year.
P-L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 02:48 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seahawks Diaspora
Posts: 4,921
Reputation: 1586928
Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by descendency View Post
I refuse to believe other NFL teams are stupid enough to take a guy purely based on first step in the first round, save Von Miller whom I still regret not realizing how great his first step was.
Fwiw, Irvin might be even faster off the snap. Not nearly as polished or well-spoken as Von, but his speed is scary. It's elite.

Quote:
I hope that tape had him standing up, because he played terrible as a down lineman.
And he won't be a "down lineman." He's a pass rusher. THAT is his position. He's going to be used like Aldon Smith was last year, except he's faster. I suspect Seattle's going to run some packages that look like a 5-2 with Irvin playing wide on the LOS. Other times, We'll have Red Bryant (330ish) Alan Branch (325, just had his best year his first year in Seattle) and Brandon Mebane (310, good penetrator). Not to mention we just drafted Jaye Howard, who will be able to play multiple positions across the line, and you're talking about a really big, athletic line that will allow us to occupy blockers while turning Clemons and Irvin loose at the same time - Carroll is going to find ways to get Bryant, Mebane, Howard, Clemons and Irvin on the field at the same time, and that's exactly the scenario in which Irvin ought to thrive - he's not going to get double-teamed, he's going to be on the edge bending towards the QB. Howard and Mebane will be able to penetrate in the middle, and with Clemons coming from the other side... I'm really happy with the way our line is looking right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxXdragonXxX View Post
Playing as a down lineman in a 3-3-5 defense at 245 lbs is a recipe for failure.

Playing as a down lineman in in the Seahawks defense at 245 is a recipe for Chris Clemons. Remember when the Seahawks traded for that guy? Everyone said he was terrible and the Seahawks were dumb for getting rid of Tapp. But Clemons has flourished at the LEO spot, and so will Bruce Irvin.
Yep. You obviously DO watch Seahawks games. The question isn't whether Irvin is a "true NFL defensive end," it's "Will he get to the passer in the Seahawks D?" and you never know for sure, but from looking at his athletic ability and knowing what the Seahawks do, I'm very optimistic.

AND - it's absolutely true that Irvin looks incredibly raw on tape, is a one-trick pony, is too light to be a consistent run defender, etc. And that's fine. The NFL draft isn't a stock market - it's not about acquiring a player everyone else wants just so that you possess something other people consider valuable - you want a guy who fits your schemes and will excel, and that's what Bruce Irvin looks like in Seattle's defense. He's long, fast, flexible and agile... And the whole time I was watching his tape, I was just thinking, "Man, if that guy can develop a spin move... Yikes." Because he gets deep in the field so fast offensive tackles are off balance. If he can reverse his momentum quickly, it'll be all over. One more thing, and then I'll wrap up this post - he's on the light side, definitely - put he does a good job of getting up under offensive lineman's chins and into their chest and neck area with his hands, and even if he's not an eye-catching bullrusher, he doesn't get pushed around as bad as you might expect for a guy who weighs less than 250 and used to play wide receiver and safety. But it's all about the speed anyways. I'm excited for preseason to start.

Last edited by Caulibflower : 04-28-2012 at 03:19 PM.
Caulibflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 02:51 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seahawks Diaspora
Posts: 4,921
Reputation: 1586928
Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by P-L View Post
I don't think Bruce Irvin was as big of a reach as James Carpenter was last year.
Right, that's what I'm saying. Unexpected, sure - but whereas Seahawks fans, after getting over the initial shock are thinking,



Last year it was more like,


Last edited by Caulibflower : 04-28-2012 at 02:56 PM.
Caulibflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 02:59 PM    (permalink
gpngc
All-NFLDC
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MetLife, Clink x4, MetLife
Posts: 12,907
Reputation: 1712539
gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I want to reiterate this point: SITUATIONAL PASS RUSHER/FUTURE LEO WAS THE #2 NEED FOR THIS TEAM BEHIND MLB (which they filled in the 2nd).

Clarification: IRVIN IS NOT A ONE-TRICKY PONY AT THIS POINT. HE'S A NO-TRICK PONY. He doesn't run the arc or dip his shoulder and bend. He has no pass rush moves. He doesn't use his hands. He just uses insane speed, natural agility, and aggressiveness/relentlessness to make plays. Take from that what you will. Crazy upside like he believes (got 23 sacks even with inconsistent or non-existent technique) or the fact that he's not a technician will be his downfall?

And highlight: HIS 10-YARD SPLIT WAS 1.55. 1.55 at 245 pounds.
gpngc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 03:13 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seahawks Diaspora
Posts: 4,921
Reputation: 1586928
Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
I want to reiterate this point: SITUATIONAL PASS RUSHER/FUTURE LEO WAS THE #2 NEED FOR THIS TEAM BEHIND MLB (which they filled in the 2nd).

Clarification: IRVIN IS NOT A ONE-TRICKY PONY AT THIS POINT. HE'S A NO-TRICK PONY. He doesn't run the arc or dip his shoulder and bend. He has no pass rush moves. He doesn't use his hands. He just uses insane speed, natural agility, and aggressiveness/relentlessness to make plays. Take from that what you will. Crazy upside like he believes (got 23 sacks even with inconsistent or non-existent technique) or the fact that he's not a technician will be his downfall?

And highlight: HIS 10-YARD SPLIT WAS 1.55. 1.55 at 245 pounds.
I'll just go ahead and keep hitting at this tag-team style, because your all-caps is exactly right - Irvin was not drafted because of any technical skill he has developed - it's 100% crazy athleticism and speed which has already turned into a pass-rush production. This is some very, very high-quality clay for Pete Carroll to work with, and that's his specialty.
Caulibflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 03:16 PM    (permalink
703SKINS202
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,040
Reputation: 70982
703SKINS202 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.703SKINS202 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.703SKINS202 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.703SKINS202 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.703SKINS202 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.703SKINS202 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.703SKINS202 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.703SKINS202 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.703SKINS202 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.703SKINS202 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.703SKINS202 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Irvin is not a down lineman. The only reason he played DE his senior year is because we had absolutely no depth and the coaches wanted to find a way to get their best defender on the field for the majority of snaps. I would look more at his junior tape from an evaluation stand point. That season he was strictly used in pass rushing situations and ended up with 14 sacks in his first season of D-1A football. Seattle knew that and that's why he'll start out as a situational pass rusher backing up Clemons at the Leo.

He's extremely raw, he pretty much didn't have time to learn the LB position from a technique standpoint in his brief stint at WVU. Him and the coaches have both come out and said that they basically just let him loose and he relied on his God given speed to blow by everyone. Give him time to learn some real pass rush moves and how to disengage blockers and I think that a lot of people will be eating crow on Irvin in a few years.

His speed is ridiculous and his motor is relentless. Character concerns are over-hyped as well.
__________________


Stedman Bailey 2012 Stat Tracker:
12 Games, 106 Rec, 1501 yards, 23 TD's

Steddy Ambition!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOnISzeG2Ao
703SKINS202 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 03:30 PM    (permalink
SchizophrenicBatman
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: GIVE LANCE THE MAX
Posts: 3,277
Reputation: 454795
SchizophrenicBatman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SchizophrenicBatman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SchizophrenicBatman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SchizophrenicBatman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SchizophrenicBatman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SchizophrenicBatman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SchizophrenicBatman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SchizophrenicBatman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SchizophrenicBatman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SchizophrenicBatman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SchizophrenicBatman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

The thought that this draft really lacked an elite pass rusher and he may have been pushed up (on teams boards at least) as a result isn't a bad one.

Of course, he went 15. Not top 10. Not 20 either but whatever. Seattle already traded down once and he's the guy they wanted. It's only a bad pick if he doesn't produce. If he's a "situational" guy who puts up 10 sacks a year I don't think they're going to be too upset
__________________
SchizophrenicBatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 03:41 PM    (permalink
Sportsfan486
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,760
Reputation: 437659
Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
And highlight: HIS 10-YARD SPLIT WAS 1.55. 1.55 at 245 pounds.
Nick Perry had a 1.57 10-yard split at 271 pounds. .... Which is more impressive?

People comparing Bruce Irvin to Von Miller need to get a clue. Yup, they're similar speed wise and as fast twitch athletes. The difference? Von Miller is freakishly strong for his size. Bruce Irvin is not only undersized, but weak for that size. Von Miller is also a technical freak. They are so far from being comparable as prospects it's laughable.

Aldon Smith and Bruce Irvin? Really? Again. Aldon Smith is stronger and technically excellent. He slides off blocks.

Watch tape of Irvin when an OLineman gets his hands on him. He is absolutely and easily single-teamed and wiped out of the play.

Irvin has potential as a situational pass rusher. I will give people that. It will, however, take time and his upside is limited to that; a situational pass rusher. His floor is being cut before week 1 (obviously won't happen, but it's entirely possible you put him against an NFL OLine and he's neutralized 10/10 plays.) Why not take a Melvin Ingram or a Nick Perry, who have much higher upsides and less scary floors?
__________________


When being a fanboi goes too far.
Sportsfan486 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 09:40 PM    (permalink
FrankGore
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 452
Reputation: 9373
FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Yeah saying Irvin and Aldon Smith are similar in any facet other than being pass rushers is a joke. Aldon was 6-4 260 with a monster wingspan and the most powerful set of hands, to the point where he was just as effective rushing inside as he was outside. He also had moves and the ability to shed blockers.

Irvin is a missile, and perhaps Carroll will find ways to get that missile to the QB. But if he gets blocked, he's blocked until he finds a way to get stronger and learn some moves. Whether that can truly be learned is a bit unclear to me. I would've been keener on this pick if it was towards the end of the 1st, not smack dab in the middle. Yes, maybe the NFL was higher on him than we were and he might've been taken, but looking at who he is + the character concerns, I wouldn't feel comfortable with that at #15.

It's not a terrible pick just on face value but I would rather it have happened earlier.
FrankGore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 09:49 PM    (permalink
nepg
Icon
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 15,079
Reputation: 1732260
nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I like Bruce Irvin, I just hate him for the Seahawks. They've been so bad at the draft in recent years... They had two perfect scheme fits who were potential Top 10 picks sitting right there with Coples & Ingram and they take a guy who doesn't have a position on a good team, nevermind a bad team that needs basic players to fill basic positions.
__________________
nepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 10:19 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seahawks Diaspora
Posts: 4,921
Reputation: 1586928
Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportsfan486 View Post
Nick Perry had a 1.57 10-yard split at 271 pounds. .... Which is more impressive?
Nick Perry. Who also went in the first.

But Bruce Irvin's 3-cone and short shuttle times are half a second faster than Perry's

Quote:
People comparing Bruce Irvin to Von Miller need to get a clue. Yup, they're similar speed wise and as fast twitch athletes. The difference? Von Miller is freakishly strong for his size. Bruce Irvin is not only undersized, but weak for that size.
Oh, so you mean how their combine numbers are almost identical, with the only discernible differences being Von's faster "official" 40 and higher vertical, and Irvin having 23 bench reps to Von's 21. But good opinion, man!

Quote:
Von Miller is also a technical freak. They are so far from being comparable as prospects it's laughable.
No, that's about the only difference aside from their personal lives.

Quote:
Watch tape of Irvin when an OLineman gets his hands on him. He is absolutely and easily single-teamed and wiped out of the play.
Like in running plays where he was lined up as a strong-side base end? Where he's not going to be in the NFL?

Quote:
Irvin has potential as a situational pass rusher. I will give people that. It will, however, take time and his upside is limited to that; a situational pass rusher. His floor is being cut before week 1 (obviously won't happen, but it's entirely possible you put him against an NFL OLine and he's neutralized 10/10 plays.) Why not take a Melvin Ingram or a Nick Perry, who have much higher upsides and less scary floors?
If you think Melvin Ingram or Nick Perry have "higher upsides..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankGore View Post
I would've been keener on this pick if it was towards the end of the 1st, not smack dab in the middle.
A player's draft stock is not a commodity outside of the NFL draft. There is far too much talk in this thread about getting a "good deal." The Seahawks had reason to believe he wouldn't be there for their second pick, and they saw him as the defensive player that would provide the greatest impact for their team. As GM Schneider put it, it was the guy they wanted and they didn't want to get "cute" with it. If you're a GM and there's a guy there in the first round who you think will add more to your team than anyone else in the first round, you don't risk losing him before your next pick just because other teams are saying, "Well, WE would have picked someone else!" I'm sorry, but that's just dumb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nepg View Post
I like Bruce Irvin, I just hate him for the Seahawks. They've been so bad at the draft in recent years... They had two perfect scheme fits who were potential Top 10 picks sitting right there with Coples & Ingram and they take a guy who doesn't have a position on a good team, nevermind a bad team that needs basic players to fill basic positions.
Coples and Ingram's skillsets aren't as unique as Irvin's. They very well may be better overall players, and at this point in their careers, I freely grant that they are better football players. But Irvin does some things that are very rare, and that's why he got picked. He didn't get picked to be a three-dwon defensive end; he got drafted because Pete Carroll thinks he can turn him into a quarterback assassin. He's a creative coach; he's not drafting for any base set of defense, he's drafting personnel that give him a lot of schematic options. Safeties that play like linebackers but who can cover, pure cover safeties who can also tackle, 330lb defensive ends in a 4-3 front, players like Jason Jones and Jaye Howard who can also play at multiple spots along the line. He's going to use all those guys to create a certain defense, to pull the blocking a certain way to create seams or exposed edges, and then he's going to put Irvin in there and let him pin his ears back and race to the quarterback. It's exactly what Chris Clemons been doing the last two years, and now Pete Carroll gets a guy who's even more of a physical freak. The LEO is Pete Carroll's pet position, and Irvin is his handpicked guy. It's a good pick for Seattle, and it doesn't matter how many other players were higher on other team's boards; Irvin's addition makes them more dangerous than Coples or Ingram would have.

Last edited by Caulibflower : 04-28-2012 at 10:51 PM.
Caulibflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 10:24 PM    (permalink
Caddy
Team Leader
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Aussie-Land
Posts: 20,867
Reputation: 2260941
Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Why do people get so butthurt when their teams picks get slammed?
__________________

Caddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 10:42 PM    (permalink
FrankGore
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 452
Reputation: 9373
FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FrankGore is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
A player's draft stock is not a commodity outside of the NFL draft. There is far too much talk in this thread about getting a "good deal." The Seahawks had reason to believe he wouldn't be there for their second pick, and they saw him as the defensive player that would provide the greatest impact for their team. As GM Schneider put it, it was the guy they wanted and they didn't want to get "cute" with it. If you're a GM and there's a guy there in the first round who you think will add more to your team than anyone else in the first round, you don't risk losing him before your next pick just because other teams are saying, "Well, WE would have picked someone else!" I'm sorry, but that's just dumb.

I get that. That doesn't mean I would have supported the other teams that wanted to take him early. The risk factor in the "risk-reward" is huge there. I just don't see a guy like him warranting that pick for anyone, coming into the NFL as basically a completely raw prospect who has a lot to figure out, both on and off the field.
FrankGore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 10:47 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seahawks Diaspora
Posts: 4,921
Reputation: 1586928
Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankGore View Post
I get that. That doesn't mean I would have supported the other teams that wanted to take him early. The risk factor in the "risk-reward" is huge there. I just don't see a guy like him warranting that pick for anyone, coming into the NFL as basically a completely raw prospect who has a lot to figure out, both on and off the field.
Right, and to each his own - but that's kind of the point. There really isn't a "right way" to draft; there's plenty of luck, and creative people push the envelope. The point is not to say that everyone else should have valued him as highly as the Seahawks, but that it makes sense for the Seahawks to value him highly and furthermore, in thinking that there were other teams that did, too, it makes sense for them to take the player when they know they're going to get him. He's a niche player, he's not a technical player, but he could be special in this defense - this defense is his niche. This isn't a team drafting a player they don't know what to do with hoping he'll turn into Clay Matthews, this is Clay Matthews' coach drafting a ball of high-quality clay and thinking, "I know what to do with this." If there are 7 other teams (that being the number I've seen thrown around several times) who considered Irvin a top-15 pick, it's a matter of people's priorities for their own teams being much different - it just doesn't mean that it was a huge reach. You draft to get the players you think will make your team better, not the players people with an outside perspective think will make your team better.
Caulibflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 10:50 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,425
Reputation: 1183720
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Irvin ran a faster 40 at the combine than Miller(4.43 versus 4.46). And 23 reps in the bench is about a 350# bp.

Bruce Irvin needs coaching, his ceiling honestly is unknown. The fact that people can credibly compare him to Von Miller in any way tells me that Irvin was worth a top 20 pick.
__________________

Last edited by FUNBUNCHER : 04-30-2012 at 06:03 AM.
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 10:50 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seahawks Diaspora
Posts: 4,921
Reputation: 1586928
Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caddy View Post
Why do people get so butthurt when their teams picks get slammed?
Same reason you use words like "butthurt" and "slammed."

TO PISS YOU OFF, *****!

Caulibflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.