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Old 04-28-2012, 05:02 PM    (permalink
Monomach
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You know...it really does look a lot like a JA draft.

Huh.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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I actually agree with the "take a guy who has a good track record in college" which is why I like the Frey pick. The fact that he's a 4-year productive starter says a lot to me.

Dennard and Burfict are criminal tards. No thanks. I wasn't happy about the Rodriguez pick after I read about his criminal record.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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You know...it really does look a lot like a JA draft.

Huh.
Sort of. JA would always go chalk in the early rounds (particularly the first). JA never drafted a 1st round guy who didn't come from a BCS school (Boston College, Penn State, Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, Miami, Vanderbilt, Wisconsin). I can't see Angelo taking a risk on McCllelan in the 1st because of the small conference and lack of elite physical talents.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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Well, Belicheck had the right idea in the seventh. They're at least going to sit on the rights to Dennard to see what happens there.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Round 1- Shea McClellin (theoretically a LE)
Good motor, good pad level. Undersized for a 4-3 DE, especially on the left where we'll be playing him. Got pushed around by NFL-sized tackles in college. Very weak upper body. He's never going to get through a double team, but he won't have to while we have Peppers. What happens when Peppers is gone? I give it a D because he only fits the scheme as a situational pass rusher right now, and you can't spend first round pick on those. If he can put on 15 pounds of upper body muscle and can still move smoothly, I'll change the grade.

Round 2- Alshon Jeffery, WR
Great flanker when he's in shape, not so great when he's fat. Has Mike Williams-itis. Should be a nice possession target with YAC ability across from Marshall. Though I don't understand why we're playing Marshall, the prototypical flanker, at split end, anyway...? Grade of B, but only because of the weight issues.

Round 3- Brandon Hardin, SS
Giant college corner who actually moved like a corner. Borderline linebacker size. Workout warrior. I like him a lot more than most, but I see a lot of potential for him to be an excellent coverage strong safety. Injury issues are overblown. All breaks, with none to the neck, back, or foot, so who cares? As far as I know, breaking his shoulder once doesn't make him any more likely to break it in the future. Probably would have been there a round later, so it was a mild reach. I think he'll see the field in his first season in an under-fire audition with how bad Major Wright is against the pass. C+.

Round 4- Evan Rodriguez, TE, FB, H-back, somethingorother
Somewhere between a homeless man's and a poor man's Aaron Hernandez. Has some decent measureables, which I like. Has more than one thing on his criminal record...that's something I hate. Boom or bust, which is how I roll in the fourth round, myself. B-.

Rounds 5-7
Who cares? Eliminate these from the draft and let the special teams/depth fodder/project kids sign where they want.

Overall grade: C with the potential to be a failure of Millenesque proportion. You don't fix the worst line in the league with scheme changes and elimination of 7 step drops; you fix it with better players. What's the best case scenario right now? Firing Mike Martz takes us from 32nd to 26th or 25th? It's all fun and games until your QB storms into free agency in disgust or winds up on the PUP list. I hate having to watch the perennially-successful teams scoop up the linemen. A great example is the Steelers. They had the 25th ranked O line last season. They used their first two picks on the O line and got guys that other teams with worse front offices let fall. There's a reason they're always picking at the ass-end of the draft. Even worse are the Saints. #1 line in the league last season. They lose a single guard, so they restructure multiple guys to free up cap space to get a decent replacement to ensure Drew Brees' continued safety.

Disappointing choice by the Bears, to say the least. We've finally got a franchise QB. Let's keep him on his feet and healthy before he signs with someone who will in 2014.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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D is a little harsh for McClellan. He's a guy with a late 1st/early 2nd grade, and we needed someone who could rush the passer, which he can do.

I don't like the pick either, but I would reserve a D grade for picks that simply don't make sense or are huge reaches.

I'd give this draft a C+/B-
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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D is a little harsh for McClellan. He's a guy with a late 1st/early 2nd grade, and we needed someone who could rush the passer, which he can do.

I don't like the pick either, but I would reserve a D grade for picks that simply don't make sense or are huge reaches.

I'd give this draft a C+/B-
Monomach hates the fit. I think it will be fine but he believes he is only a 3-4 OLB.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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D is a little harsh for McClellan. He's a guy with a late 1st/early 2nd grade, and we needed someone who could rush the passer, which he can do.

I don't like the pick either, but I would reserve a D grade for picks that simply don't make sense or are huge reaches.

I'd give this draft a C+/B-
See I agree with Monomarch. I dont think you take a guy who is incapable of playing in your scheme. On top of that I heard he has concussion issues. So you took a mid first round pick to get a guy who wasn't scouted to be able to play the position you wanna play him at, and on top of that he has injury concerns. If he turns out great so be it, but as reaction I don't think you can grade it higher than a C.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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We'll see what they plan on doing with him. If he's nothing but a hand-in-the-ground DE, then I agree.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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The concussion issues are reportedly not true. He had one concussion in high school.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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We'll see what they plan on doing with him. If he's nothing but a hand-in-the-ground DE, then I agree.
Emery says he's a left end.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...defensive-end/

That's why I stand by the D grade. He's not a left end unless they can fix his body and teach him to play with more bulk. At least they're not listening to Sean Jensen when he talked about going full-****** and trying to groom him for 4-3 MLB because "he and Urlacher are both tweeners."

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The concussion issues are reportedly not true. He had one concussion in high school.
Sounds like spin for the media.

He cops to two of them in college for a pre-draft interview in his hometown paper here:
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/0...g-the-nfl.html

If you saw somewhere where he said he had one in high school, that's three.

I like how he tries to brush them off by saying that he didn't miss a game, as if that were the point. I didn't take the concussions into consideration for the grade, since we don't know whether it was 2 or 3. Really, though, I probably should have given the pick an F based on that.

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Old 04-28-2012, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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Bears have picked up two UDFA so far.

Ronnie Cameron, DT, Old Dominion
Scott Wedige, OL, Northern Illinois

Never heard of Wedige. Have seen Cameron's name before as a rotation pass-rusher, though.

edit: I guess Wedige is a center. Was first team All-MAC in 2010 and 2011.

edit #2: The Wedige report was full of crap. He's a Cardinal now.

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Old 04-28-2012, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Ugh....get off the Massie stuff.

This happens all the damn time. Players drop, and because some draft guy said they were valuable, everyone believes it. There's a reason that every single NFL GM has passed on the guy multiple times.
If only people understood this principal. There are at least 10 special GM's who truly know what they are doing and can size up talent pretty well and if everyone of them passes on a prospect, you just know they are likely overhyped by a lot or have serious injury concerns which surfaced late. .

Sometimes it is injury problems that only surface at the last minute when the medical records from the combine and private workouts come out. That alone can send a prospect tumbling on draft day and we may not even be aware of it till post draft. Most GM's go strictly by what their doctors tell them.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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D is a little harsh for McClellan. He's a guy with a late 1st/early 2nd grade, and we needed someone who could rush the passer, which he can do.

I don't like the pick either, but I would reserve a D grade for picks that simply don't make sense or are huge reaches.

I'd give this draft a C+/B-
I hate the Bears but I love McClellin. He a perfect fit in a cover 2 scheme as a DE. I won't be at all shocked if he turns out to be a star for the Bears.
By the way, why are we discussing the Bear picks on the Lions forum with Bear fans???

Ooops, I'm clicked on the wrong forum, sorry guys.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Some UDFAs id like to see: DaJohn Harris DT USC, Chase Minnifield CB.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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Some UDFAs id like to see: DaJohn Harris DT USC, Chase Minnifield CB.
Harris signed with the Titans. Minnifield signed with the Redskins.

this is who the bears have so far:

Alvester Alexander, RB, Wyoming
James Brown, G, Troy
Ronnie Cameron, DT, Old Dominion
Adrien Cole, LB, Louisiana Tech
Trevor Coston, DB, Maine
David Mosley, WR, NW Missouri (camp invite)
Ronnie Thornton, LB, Southern Miss

James Brown is the only significant name, I think.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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I'd rather our UDFAs come from small schools anyway. It's pretty hard to go under the radar at Ohio State, but a kid from Maine is much more likely to be a diamond in the ruff.
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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Round 1- Shea McClellin (theoretically a LE)
Good motor, good pad level. Undersized for a 4-3 DE, especially on the left where we'll be playing him. Got pushed around by NFL-sized tackles in college. Very weak upper body. He's never going to get through a double team, but he won't have to while we have Peppers. What happens when Peppers is gone? I give it a D because he only fits the scheme as a situational pass rusher right now, and you can't spend first round pick on those. If he can put on 15 pounds of upper body muscle and can still move smoothly, I'll change the grade.

Round 2- Alshon Jeffery, WR
Great flanker when he's in shape, not so great when he's fat. Has Mike Williams-itis. Should be a nice possession target with YAC ability across from Marshall. Though I don't understand why we're playing Marshall, the prototypical flanker, at split end, anyway...? Grade of B, but only because of the weight issues.

Round 3- Brandon Hardin, SS
Giant college corner who actually moved like a corner. Borderline linebacker size. Workout warrior. I like him a lot more than most, but I see a lot of potential for him to be an excellent coverage strong safety. Injury issues are overblown. All breaks, with none to the neck, back, or foot, so who cares? As far as I know, breaking his shoulder once doesn't make him any more likely to break it in the future. Probably would have been there a round later, so it was a mild reach. I think he'll see the field in his first season in an under-fire audition with how bad Major Wright is against the pass. C+.

Round 4- Evan Rodriguez, TE, FB, H-back, somethingorother
Somewhere between a homeless man's and a poor man's Aaron Hernandez. Has some decent measureables, which I like. Has more than one thing on his criminal record...that's something I hate. Boom or bust, which is how I roll in the fourth round, myself. B-.

Rounds 5-7
Who cares? Eliminate these from the draft and let the special teams/depth fodder/project kids sign where they want.

Overall grade: C with the potential to be a failure of Millenesque proportion. You don't fix the worst line in the league with scheme changes and elimination of 7 step drops; you fix it with better players. What's the best case scenario right now? Firing Mike Martz takes us from 32nd to 26th or 25th? It's all fun and games until your QB storms into free agency in disgust or winds up on the PUP list. I hate having to watch the perennially-successful teams scoop up the linemen. A great example is the Steelers. They had the 25th ranked O line last season. They used their first two picks on the O line and got guys that other teams with worse front offices let fall. There's a reason they're always picking at the ass-end of the draft. Even worse are the Saints. #1 line in the league last season. They lose a single guard, so they restructure multiple guys to free up cap space to get a decent replacement to ensure Drew Brees' continued safety.

Disappointing choice by the Bears, to say the least. We've finally got a franchise QB. Let's keep him on his feet and healthy before he signs with someone who will in 2014.
If we drafted James Brown in the 3rd. Hardin in the 4th and Rodriguez in the 5th would you be happy?
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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If we drafted James Brown in the 3rd. Hardin in the 4th and Rodriguez in the 5th would you be happy?
No. James Brown alone is not going to get it done.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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No. James Brown alone is not going to get it done.
McClellin and Jeffery were good pickups. There wasnt going to be a guy after that to come in and start at LT day one and improve the team.

I'm guessing Chris Williams will compete at LT with Webb. Hopefully Carimi can hold down RT. We should be fine with the scheme changes. We have a ton of bodies on the inside. Louis and Spencer are the likely starters there with Garza at C.
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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McClellin and Jeffery were good pickups. There wasnt going to be a guy after that to come in and start at LT day one and improve the team.

I'm guessing Chris Williams will compete at LT with Webb. Hopefully Carimi can hold down RT. We should be fine with the scheme changes. We have a ton of bodies on the inside. Louis and Spencer are the likely starters there with Garza at C.
I'd go so far as to say that there were at least a dozen guys in the draft who could come in and do better than Webb's 38 pressures, 10 sacks, and 15 penalties resulting in 82 lost yards and 8 stalled drives.

The guy was literally the worst starting right tackle in the league one year and the worst starting left tackle in the league the next year. He was outperformed by the (rightly) reviled Frank Omiyale. You mention Williams getting a chance to compete at LT and I wish that were true, but I don't see it happening. For one thing, Tice has never said anything like that (incredibly, he's been saying that Webb was decent last year). For another, he's only had 414 career snaps there and didn't get a chance at all last year. Neither did Carimi, for that matter. J'Marcus was named the starter before last offseason's workouts, despite failing miserably on the right side. Williams would probably be an improvement. I don't know if he'd even be average (he wasn't in that small sample size), but anything less bad would be fantastic. Again, I don't see this happening. Any other O line coach would choose to develop Webb on the practice squad where he belongs right now...not as a starter. Unfortunately, Tice is absolutely unreasonable about it. He's like Lovie with Rashied Davis. Sometimes a coach just gets over-the-moon *** for a terrible player.

Our inside situation is not much better. Mike Tice liking big bodies is fine and all, but you can't just get yourself a collection of big seventh rounders and UDFAs expecting to find most of a starting line in it. That ton of bodies on the inside all performed pretty horribly last year other than Edwin Williams. Even Garza with that funny pro-bowl alternate nod he got.

I know people like to say that they were good in run blocking, but that's not true either. The Bears were stuffed at the line or ran for a loss on 24.1% of their rushes last season. Statistically, our best running was on the outside shoulder of the tight end, far away from any "holes" that the O line was attempting to create.

Way too many people are convinced that we have an excellent O line that was just being made to look bad by Mike Martz. It makes me think of all the Niners fans who have convinced themselves that AJ Jenkins was really the second or third-best wideout in the draft and grade the pick as an "A." Sometimes NFL teams really do make really, really bad decisions. Sometimes it's ignorance. Sometimes it's trying to look like a genius by plugging in nobodies and hoping they perform . Either way, bad is bad. There were a lot of legit O line upgrades available in free agency and the draft. We didn't try to get any of them, opting instead for Chilo Rachal, who fits right in with the bad group we have, and one UDFA with all of the tools to be groomed at tackle that they're calling a developmental guard.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:06 AM    (permalink
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Just read through the reactions to the Bears picks, and I gotta be honest, bearsfan_51 is the only one here that doesn't make me want to punch a baby. Either some of you have forgotten what Lovie's philosophy is (or you don't care because you don't like his defense) or you haven't watched enough McClellin. There is nothing wrong with his fit in this scheme. In theory, he's exactly what we want at that position. First and foremost, we need a guy that could consistently beat a RT and get pressure on the QB. I think we got the best pure pass rusher on the board. I do worry about him a bit as a strong side end vs. the run, but Lovie wants his linemen to quickly get off blocks and make plays on the ball carrier. I think he can do that, at least eventually, and if he struggles there early on we know Idonije can play on early downs. Most importantly, we needed somebody that can stay on the field against the Packers and Lions (and teams of that ilk) and put pressure on Aaron Rodgers and Matthew Stafford. I think we got that.

And if you do watch some videos of McClellin (there's plenty of stuff on Youtube -- obviously not coaches tape, granted, but enough to form a sound opinion), you can see why his numbers are what they are -- he played like 6 different positions per game, and dropped into coverage a lot more than you'd think. So on one hand, he's a little less experienced as a pass rusher, but on the other hand, when he DOES rush out of a 3point stance, he looks so natural and explosive off the line. I liked him a lot before the draft, had him in my top 20, but now that I've watched more I'm even more impressed. Really feeling good about the pick.

The pick I don't feel as great about as everyone else is Alshon, actually. First of all, I have my doubts he stays in shape. I just can't get over that photo. A guy that takes pride in being a great receiver shouldn't look like that. Obviously I don't know the guy, but I really question his motivation. Beyond that, I think he'll have trouble separating from NFL corners, and even if he's in great shape and he can separate better than I'm expecting, I don't think he's the explosive compliment to Marshall that our offense could have used. I don't hate the pick, I'm just not so quick to praise it.

The Hardin pick was all right. I don't love such an emphasis on special teams in the third round since that's the only place he's expected to contribute in the near future. Still, he's more impressive physically than any safety we've had since Lovie has been here. The upside is definitely worth a pick, though I probably would have tried to get him a little bit later - maybe trade down 10-15 spots, or trade up from the fourth rounder. I'm nitpicking though.

The Rodriguez pick was a little surprising. Again, probably would have tried to get him a little later, but I did like him coming into the draft. I like that the pick signals a move into the 21st century. No more terrible fullbacks that only exist to clog running lanes. E Rod will provide everything Clutts and McKie ever did (by default), and hopefully create some minor mismatches in the passing game.

The Frey pick was fine, the McCoy pick seemed incredibly redundant. I'd have liked to see a DT there. I'm past the point of caring about 5th and 7th rounders, though.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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You should totally punch a baby; they need acclimated to the harsh realities of the world.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:35 AM    (permalink
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Done and done.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:45 AM    (permalink
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Hey, i liked Shea!
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