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Old 05-13-2012, 11:08 PM    (permalink
Brothgar
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Originally Posted by wicket View Post
lofton, chamberlain and hawthorne totally werent upgrades for all linebacking sports

also the stealing of signals was supposed to be 7-8 years ago, not recently.

I dont care if you think it are the saints but your arguments are stupid
OK so first of all, Lofton isn't a huge improvement over Vilma. Secondly pardon me if I don't bow to Chamberlain and Hawthorne. Thirdly an improvement in the LB spots doesn't magically make all the downgrades you made over the past off season all better. I have a real hard time believing that they had the technology installed 7-8 years ago weren't caught and then said "Oh well we aren't doing that anymore" possible sure but doesn't make it stupid. On top of that to think that not having SP on the sidelines isn't going to affect this team harshly in the negative direction need to look no further than the games when he was in the coach's box to see how differently they react when he isn't there. We will also see how long Brees' holdout lasts.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WT01 View Post
The Seahawks had a top ten defense last year despite having one of the lowest sack totals in football. If Irvin can even bring a moderate amount of pressure, they'll be next to impossible to score on. Lynch, meanwhile, is a very good RB. Even if Matt Flynn is only an average QB they could easily contend for the playoffs next year.
You have a point. Only with 6 games against the Rams, 49ers and Cardinals, could make the Seahawk defense approach top 10. The horrific lack of talent in that division might cost the Seahawks a top 5 again.

However, if you expect average play from Flynn, I hope that you enjoy that stash while it lasts. Its good stuff. Your best QB is a rookie, and under 6' tall.

J
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Old 05-14-2012, 04:00 AM    (permalink
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You have a point. Only with 6 games against the Rams, 49ers and Cardinals, could make the Seahawk defense approach top 10. The horrific lack of talent in that division might cost the Seahawks a top 5 again.

However, if you expect average play from Flynn, I hope that you enjoy that stash while it lasts. Its good stuff. Your best QB is a rookie, and under 6' tall.

J
What makes you think Matt Flynn won't do well?
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:54 AM    (permalink
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I think Miami will struggle mightily. While they will probably do a lot in terms of building team chemistry for the future, I don't see it adding up in the win column soon. They got their QB, but he doesn't have a lot of weapons.

Minnesota is a given in my book. Going into this offseason I saw them as one of the least talented teams in the league, and they didn't do enough to make a great leap. I do think Ponder may make some strides this year, though.

Jacksonville. Someone commented on the fact that the Jags' defense was in the top 10 in a lot of statistical categories. It reminded me a lot of the 1992 Seahawks, who were one of the best defensive teams in the league but went 2-14 because they couldn't score on anyone and led the league in punts. I think in order to stay out of the top 5, Laurent Robinson will need to have a repeat of the season he had last year, Justin Blackmon will need to be productive right off the bat, Lee Evans will need to return to his old form and Blaine Gabbert will need to trade in his tampon for a jockstrap. Think all those things will happen? Me neither.

Indianapolis I agree with wholeheartedly. They have a lot of upside in that, despite all the Irsay/Manning offseason drama, they immediately got themselves a franchise QB, a really good TE, and a field-stretching WR. Those are nice pieces to rebuild with. However, they are going to have one of the highest player turnovers in the league this year and a revamped coaching staff with a completely new system, including the switch to a 3-4. I see them having a really hard time running the ball as well as stopping the run. That doesn't bode well for them.

Tampa Bay is my pick for a surprise loser this year. A lot has been said for the fact that they kicked ass in free agency. I don't necessarily see that as a great thing for a team with a brand new coach who comes from the college ranks. I also think that they have a very suspect secondary in a division with 3 QB's that amassed a combined total of almost 14,000 yards last year. I think they will have a decent running game, but will be abandoning it a lot in come-from-behind games.

Teams that I think will be better than everyone thinks they will...

Cleveland made themselves better this year regardless of whether or not anyone thinks Brandon Weeden is the answer for the future. I don't think they will light the league on fire, but I see them winning 7 games and being more competitive than last year.

Washington - As much as I want the Redskins to stink it up and hand over a top 5 pick to my Rams, I think Shanahan is too good of a coach and will probably get his team 7 or 8 wins. I like them more than I did a couple of months ago.

Call me a homer if you like, but I don't think the Rams get a top 5 pick. Probably top 10, but not top 5. Unlike the Buccaneers, the Rams made quality free agent signings with players that are very familiar to their system; most of the players signed had some kind of connection to the Rams' coaching staff. They added a lot of young talent in the draft, including a speed back and a pair of receivers. I also think that returning players are jacked up to play for Jeff Fisher. While I think we are a year or two away from the playoffs, I think we make great strides and win 6 or 7 games this year.

Arizona is not going to lose 11 games this year. I think that they are getting better and closer to what Ken Whisenhunt wants in his team. The additions of Kelemete and Massie on their O-line will be huge for them. I think Skelton has a very high ceiling and will become their starting QB this year. They play in a fairly weak division that almost guarantees them 3 wins alone. I think they win 8 games this year.

Teams I am on the fence about...

Kansas City has a lot of talent, but they are counting on a lot of their talent coming back from major injuries. Their QB has hit his ceiling. On paper they have the makings of a good team, but I wonder how it will translate to the field.

While I think in the long run Oakland will be a stronger franchise without Al Davis, but I'm not sure how quickly we will see it happening. I'm sure that there is a much calmer feel around their facility, though.

Seattle looks to have everything in place except for...well, everything. They have shuffled their cards a lot. Midway through the season they dedicate themselves to running and suddenly look like Tom Osborne's Cornhuskers. It's really hard to say what we will get from them. I'll let you know after the season.
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
What makes you think Matt Flynn won't do well?
The same things that have made life difficult for Matt Cassel. He is not physically gifted by NFL standards. When dropped into a machine of an offense, he was able to fill his role. You should remember that Cassel was Pro Bowl in NE.

This is vastly different situation. The offense is not loaded with quality players, he will not have an exceptional OL, and he is not intimately familiar with either the players or the offense. It is going to be rough. In fact, he may just be keeping the seat warm for Wilson. Wilson is everything Flynn is not, including tall.

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Old 05-14-2012, 09:18 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by onejayhawk View Post
The same things that have made life difficult for Matt Cassel. He is not physically gifted by NFL standards. When dropped into a machine of an offense, he was able to fill his role. You should remember that Cassel was Pro Bowl in NE.

This is vastly different situation. The offense is not loaded with quality players, he will not have an exceptional OL, and he is not intimately familiar with either the players or the offense. It is going to be rough. In fact, he may just be keeping the seat warm for Wilson. Wilson is everything Flynn is not, including tall.

J
"able to fill his role" is a gross misrepresentation of what he did in that offense. Not saying Matt Flynn is going to be a great or even good QB, but let's give him some credit. 480 yards and 6 TD's doesn't happen every day.
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
Kansas City has a lot of talent, but they are counting on a lot of their talent coming back from major injuries. Their QB has hit his ceiling. On paper they have the makings of a good team, but I wonder how it will translate to the field.
The thing to remember about the Chiefs is that they tripped coming out of the blocks. After giving up 90 points the first two games, as well as losing Jamaal Charles and Eric Berry for the season. They pulled things together and made a run at the playoffs.

Without Berry and with the two blowouts, the defense finished 13th overall. The offense added a very good FA, Eric Winston, at their weakest position and Peyton Hillis to replace Thomas Jones. Berry and Charles are certainly expected to help substantially, but this is still a division contender without them.

J
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fear the elf View Post
"able to fill his role" is a gross misrepresentation of what he did in that offense. Not saying Matt Flynn is going to be a great or even good QB, but let's give him some credit. 480 yards and 6 TD's doesn't happen every day.
To the contrary, that is exactly what he did. He was carefully prepared, and the team knew exactly what to expect.

Again, Matt Cassel was Pro Bowl grade replacing Tom Brady. In 2008, he had 3,693 yards, 21 TD, 11 Int, 89.4 rating for essentially a full season.

J
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:27 AM    (permalink
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See, I don't agree that Davis' death helps you this year. Reggie inherited a team that was over the cap and had traded its first four draft picks. The new regime really needs next offseason before it pays dividends.



I see the Raiders winning 4 or 5 this year but the future is definitely bright. As a Broncos fan it pains me to say that.
As a Broncos fan, you should know all about the frappy defensive system the Raiders had to play with Al Davis on the throne. Four-man rush, one man 20-30 yards deep, everyone in man. It's how Rolando McClain was consistently matche up against TEs with elite size and speed on seam routes. It is why there were serious issues with pressure because the opposing team knew exactly where the rush was coming from.

Put in a new defensive coordinator and this team is going to improve just based on a scheme that's not four decades old. That alone is worth Abaddon's two-win swing.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Jacksonville. Someone commented on the fact that the Jags' defense was in the top 10 in a lot of statistical categories. It reminded me a lot of the 1992 Seahawks, who were one of the best defensive teams in the league but went 2-14 because they couldn't score on anyone and led the league in punts. I think in order to stay out of the top 5, Laurent Robinson will need to have a repeat of the season he had last year, Justin Blackmon will need to be productive right off the bat, Lee Evans will need to return to his old form and Blaine Gabbert will need to trade in his tampon for a jockstrap. Think all those things will happen? Me neither.
You say that four things need to happen for the Jaguars to stay out of the top 5, yet none of those things happened last year and the Jaguars stayed out of the top 5.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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You say that four things need to happen for the Jaguars to stay out of the top 5, yet none of those things happened last year and the Jaguars stayed out of the top 5.
Jaguars: 5-11
Redskins: 5-11
Browns: 4-12
Buccaneers: 4-12
Vikings: 3-13
Rams: 2-14
Colts: 2-14

I'm pretty sure that the difference between going 5-11 and picking 7th, and going 4-12 and picking 4th, basically boils down to serendipity.
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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OK so first of all, Lofton isn't a huge improvement over Vilma. Secondly pardon me if I don't bow to Chamberlain and Hawthorne. Thirdly an improvement in the LB spots doesn't magically make all the downgrades you made over the past off season all better. I have a real hard time believing that they had the technology installed 7-8 years ago weren't caught and then said "Oh well we aren't doing that anymore" possible sure but doesn't make it stupid. On top of that to think that not having SP on the sidelines isn't going to affect this team harshly in the negative direction need to look no further than the games when he was in the coach's box to see how differently they react when he isn't there. We will also see how long Brees' holdout lasts.
so now your argument switched from they didnt do anything to improve the team to they lost some stuff and what they got didnt quite match up. You are also underselling Hawthorne imo but thats not even the argument, you adjusted your argument all of a sudden.

Second of all there has been no proof whatsoever of the technology being installed and such but thats not even the point. However the patriots situation could have been a reason, a new HC could be the reason and the one guy who maid the accusation said it washed away with Katrina.

yet again, feel how you feel, just get your arguments straight
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by onejayhawk View Post
To the contrary, that is exactly what he did. He was carefully prepared, and the team knew exactly what to expect.

Again, Matt Cassel was Pro Bowl grade replacing Tom Brady. In 2008, he had 3,693 yards, 21 TD, 11 Int, 89.4 rating for essentially a full season.

J
See, this bothers me. People love to compare similar situations and don't even look at the players. I bet 80+% of the people that "evaluate" him didn't even see his game last year.

And now prepare for the "I've seen every Matt Flynn snap since he was in 8th grade" type of response. Ahh! Internet football analysts.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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Thinking ahead but I can see a couple of teams trading up into the Top 5 select QB's this year.

Jacksonville, Seattle, Indy could be good trade partners.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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Lions, Vikings, Packers, Colts, Lions.
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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See, this bothers me. People love to compare similar situations and don't even look at the players. I bet 80+% of the people that "evaluate" him didn't even see his game last year.

And now prepare for the "I've seen every Matt Flynn snap since he was in 8th grade" type of response. Ahh! Internet football analysts.
Nah. I just remember him as one of the "other" QBs in the 2008 draft. He started his senior year, after JRuss moved on, and led LSU to the title IIRC, but did not impress. His tools are merely adequate, and his arm is barely that. He has excellent leadership skills and looks to have all the intangibles and ball skills. However the physical package is barely good enough, and there is no untapped reserve.

I did not pick Cassel at random. Other than a National Championship in college, they are very similar. Both performed when plugged into a tailor made slot. Whether they can do it in a more free form situation was in question. With Cassel we now have an answer. He can perform well in a narrowly defined role, but only there.

I say again, their best QB is a 5'10" rookie.

J
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:12 AM    (permalink
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You say that four things need to happen for the Jaguars to stay out of the top 5, yet none of those things happened last year and the Jaguars stayed out of the top 5.
I guess I just think that Jacksonville is less talented than almost everyone in the league. They have a very shaky QB. A new head coach, a new system. They didn't add a whole lot of talent this offseason. I do think there is a lot of enthusiasm with the new regime, new owner and all that, but I have a feeling that things will get worse before they get better. My Rams are in a very similar position. The difference to me is that the Rams have added a lot more talent across the board.

Additionally, on the Jags' schedule, I see games at Minnesota, at Miami, and home-and-away with Indy as the only games they should win.
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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I guess I just think that Jacksonville is less talented than almost everyone in the league. They have a very shaky QB. A new head coach, a new system. They didn't add a whole lot of talent this offseason. I do think there is a lot of enthusiasm with the new regime, new owner and all that, but I have a feeling that things will get worse before they get better. My Rams are in a very similar position. The difference to me is that the Rams have added a lot more talent across the board.

Additionally, on the Jags' schedule, I see games at Minnesota, at Miami, and home-and-away with Indy as the only games they should win.
Two of the worst three games of the season for the Jaguars were on national TV(Atlanta, San Diego). I think that is clouding the issue for some people.

The defense is a lot better than most seem to realize. Before getting hit with a long sting of injuries to the point that they were starting a back up DT at LDE and picking up free agent CBs off the street and playing them, the Jags had one of the better units in the league. They held the Panthers to 16, Ravens to 7, Pitt to 17, Titans to 14, Saints to 23, Texans to 20/24, Browns to 14, Colts to 3. For a team with less talent than almost everyone they have a pretty good defense.

Josh Scobee is one of the better kickers in the NFL. The new punter has a lot of potential. MJD was the leagues leading rusher last season. Again, it does not seem like a team with less talent than almost everyone.

Besides injuries, WR and QB were the big issues last year. They added Laurent Robinson, Lee Evans and Justin Blackmon at WR, which is not an amazing group but is clearly better than Jason Hill, Cecil Shorts and Jarett Dillard. Gabbert is going to be the key, but if you look at the roster outside of the QB position there is a lot of talent.
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Two of the worst three games of the season for the Jaguars were on national TV(Atlanta, San Diego). I think that is clouding the issue for some people.

The defense is a lot better than most seem to realize. Before getting hit with a long sting of injuries to the point that they were starting a back up DT at LDE and picking up free agent CBs off the street and playing them, the Jags had one of the better units in the league. They held the Panthers to 16, Ravens to 7, Pitt to 17, Titans to 14, Saints to 23, Texans to 20/24, Browns to 14, Colts to 3. For a team with less talent than almost everyone they have a pretty good defense.

Josh Scobee is one of the better kickers in the NFL. The new punter has a lot of potential. MJD was the leagues leading rusher last season. Again, it does not seem like a team with less talent than almost everyone.

Besides injuries, WR and QB were the big issues last year. They added Laurent Robinson, Lee Evans and Justin Blackmon at WR, which is not an amazing group but is clearly better than Jason Hill, Cecil Shorts and Jarett Dillard. Gabbert is going to be the key, but if you look at the roster outside of the QB position there is a lot of talent.
I'm just going to agree to disagree. It really doesn't matter until the games are played anyway.
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Old 05-15-2012, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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Isn't every QB "one hit away" from leaving their team stranded?
Does every team have a QB with serious neck issues?
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that's because we're the only animal capable of getting it from other animals. the day a goat can milk cows, it will.
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Old 05-16-2012, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Does every team have a QB with serious neck issues?
I can see where broth is coming from but the Broncos have a little bit more to be worried about considering Manning's age and the numerous neck surgeries; Manning's hip bone has been grafted onto his neck. That's scary. The Broncos could easily compete for the AFC West if Manning plays most or all of the season but Broncos fans should be holding their breath every time Peyton takes a hit because it could be time for Brock Osweiler to step in at any moment.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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Wadsworth, don't worry about it. No need to defend the Jags. People who aren't fans of the Jags don't know anything about them. The Jags will get around 7 to 9 wins next year. The season hinges on Gabbert and with a whole new offensive coaching staff focused on him, improvement will happen.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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Wadsworth, don't worry about it. No need to defend the Jags. People who aren't fans of the Jags don't know anything about them. The Jags will get around 7 to 9 wins next year. The season hinges on Gabbert and with a whole new offensive coaching staff focused on him, improvement will happen.
No they won't. Who do you think will be the 5 worst teams then?
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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Wadsworth, don't worry about it. No need to defend the Jags. People who aren't fans of the Jags don't know anything about them. The Jags will get around 7 to 9 wins next year. The season hinges on Gabbert and with a whole new offensive coaching staff focused on him, improvement will happen.
But you see, that's kind of the problem.

And crazy **** happens all the time in the NFL, but no way in hell the Jaguars get 9 wins. If everything goes perfectly right I could see 7, but I expect 4.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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The Jags will get around 7 to 9 wins next year. The season hinges on Gabbert and with a whole new offensive coaching staff focused on him, improvement will happen.
of course some improvement will happen, he couldnt POSSIBLY regress could he? he looked like a HS soccer player thrust into a game that was way too fast and violent for him, not a first round pick it was like watching a traffic accident everytime he took a snap.

only way theyre getting that many wins is if Gabbert gets knocked out for a while or mercifully benched.
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