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Old 05-05-2012, 06:51 PM    (permalink
Shane P. Hallam
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You don't think Robinson will come out next year do you?
Kinda tough not to since he will be a senior.
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Old 05-05-2012, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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Wow really? ****, time flies.
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Old 05-05-2012, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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Here is a prospect that is under the radar right now but could really move up the draft boards when it comes to QB's... Dayne Crist from Kansas.

Sure many know about Crist while at Notre Dame but his best years and before injury happened when Charlie Weis was still his head coach. Now he will get one more year to prove to everyone he is indeed a quality NFL QB with him being with Weis again.

Word is Crist looked very good during the Spring at Kansas and the QB after him in Jake Heaps is looking very good also.
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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Any thoughts on Sean Renfree the QB at Duke?
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Old 05-05-2012, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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Well after reading through this site, I figured I should join as I have lots to say about these posts that I'm reading and I must say I greatly enjoy all of the work that you've put into each QB. I'm going to give my two-cents about Landry Jones.

I am a huge OU fan, I have grown up a 5 minute walk from the football stadium in Norman so I've watched Landry through the years to see how he has come along. I can't give the Todd McShay type analysis that you've provided, but I can share with you the trends that he's shown over the 3 years that I've watched him play.

He is a very nervous player, he does not play well under pressure outside of a select few games. Against Florida State he threw 2 INT's and was about 11-25 in that game I believe, yet OU still won the game in large part to a great performance by the defense. Against OSU he was God awful. When he is at home though he is in my opinion the top QB in the NCAA. If you check his home stats they are Heisman potential easily, but it's the road games that kill him. He psychs himself out during all of the road games, and I don't know how much that mentality will continue on into the NFL. He also is one who has in the past struggled to go through his progressions. If you noticed when Ryan Broyles went down with the ACL injury, he did not throw a single TD pass in the last 3 games of the season. He was so focused on trying to get the ball to Ryan that once he lost that option he was somewhat doomed. He did still have Kenny Stills, Jaz Reynolds, and a few other WRs along with a pretty balanced RB corps. But there is a reason Ryan is the NCAA receptions leader, with Landry always eyeing him as his first priority for the most part. In the NFL he won't be able to do that as NFL players are talented enough to make a jump on the ball and pick him off, which will hurt him. He has improved however as going through progressions but he still needs to greatly work on that, and like you had stated earlier, improve his anticipation of routes instead of waiting to have the receiver come open.

In the 3 years that I've watched Landry play however, he has VASTLY improved his skill set and talents. There was an article in the local newspaper about a month ago where he went to Florida this offseason to work with NFL QB coaches on his footwork and his mechanics I think. I am very interested to see if he's improved this year. The talent around him this year though may be the best of any team in the country, and I mean that from a non-biased fan. They're going to make him look like a very good QB if he can get the ball out and to them which I trust he can. If you don't believe me on the talent group around him, this was called the best WR class that OU has ever had by Coach Stoops. I believe Landry can greatly improve his draft stock this season, and as a fans sake I sure hope he does. Great work anyways and I hope you update this as the season unfolds, I want to see your later analysis of Landry to come.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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As an OU alum, and watching Bradford and then Landry, you can see the differences night and day.
That one thing is accuracy and decision making. Landry at times is horrible at those things, but has the capability of being great.
To me, Landry has all you want with a QB prospect, he just needs to hone up on the accuracy/decision making process.
Last year, I predicted Landry was a mid 1st round pick who could see his stock rise/plummet. It fell down some to what people view him now as a late 1st/2nd round pick I take it.
I think if he has a solid season, you're looking at a mid/late 1st round pick. I mean, heck, Weeden was taken in the first for crying out loud. If he stinks it up, probably a 3rd rounder. He excels? Top 10 pick.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ChiefMojo View Post
Here is a prospect that is under the radar right now but could really move up the draft boards when it comes to QB's... Dayne Crist from Kansas.

Sure many know about Crist while at Notre Dame but his best years and before injury happened when Charlie Weis was still his head coach. Now he will get one more year to prove to everyone he is indeed a quality NFL QB with him being with Weis again.

Word is Crist looked very good during the Spring at Kansas and the QB after him in Jake Heaps is looking very good also.
I'll be keeping an eye on Crist this year if I get the opportunity.
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Any thoughts on Sean Renfree the QB at Duke?
I didn't watch any Duke games last year because their top draft prospect was Matt Daniels, sorry.
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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He just seems to attempt a pass to his primary target every time regardless of coverage/defense; I'd like to see him go to his second or third options rather than trying to rifle it in there.
This is my main complaint with Glennon. Even if he comes off his first read it's almost always on the same side of the field.

Also, for all his arm strength he doesn't seem to throw deep or even intermediate-deep all that often.

He was very good last year for a first year starter...if he was a freshman or sophomore. Unfortunately, he was a redshirt junior. Draftable either way, but not sure he'll ever live up to his supposed potential at this point
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jth1331 View Post
As an OU alum, and watching Bradford and then Landry, you can see the differences night and day.
That one thing is accuracy and decision making. Landry at times is horrible at those things, but has the capability of being great.
To me, Landry has all you want with a QB prospect, he just needs to hone up on the accuracy/decision making process.
Last year, I predicted Landry was a mid 1st round pick who could see his stock rise/plummet. It fell down some to what people view him now as a late 1st/2nd round pick I take it.
I think if he has a solid season, you're looking at a mid/late 1st round pick. I mean, heck, Weeden was taken in the first for crying out loud. If he stinks it up, probably a 3rd rounder. He excels? Top 10 pick.
Sounds like FSU fans pining for Ponder all last year.
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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Does anyone think if Denard adds some weight he might have a shot at RB? I love his vision and I think that he can help more at RB than WR.
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Qb friendly draft, like the draft of 04.
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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I said it in another thread and will say it again, Landry Jones arm talent is very good. The guy struggles, but Mark Sanchez went 5th overall and he had less starts, similar struggles, and an inferior arm to Landry Jones.

Also, it was interesting you didn't bring up how Barkley handles pressure whatsoever. Biggest downfall I've seen with him so far. He doesn't always seem to throw with conviction. Constantly hesitating on his passes, taking false steps when defenders aren't near him. It's the reason why his deep ball sails miles away from his receivers most of the time.

I like Barkley, but I've cooled on him big time and can't seem to comprehend this #1 overall talk.
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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Does anyone think if Denard adds some weight he might have a shot at RB? I love his vision and I think that he can help more at RB than WR.




I agree. I think he could get a shot at RB. I like his skill set for the position, and he's already bigger than high picks this year in Pead and James.


Ultimately I see him playing a "SLASH" type role in the nfl. He's too good of an athlete and playmaker to leave him on the bench as a backup QB.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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RoP,

Any chance we could get your thoughts on Brad Sorensen of Southern Utah?

I know that may be hard since I don't think a lost of Thunderbird tape is online.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:32 AM    (permalink
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I certainly love the hard work but I really question your ability to assess your rankings properly based solely on your own judgment.
Bucky Brooks early assessments are usually pretty solid and as an ex scout he has serious contacts within the scouting profession and tends to report what a majority of them are thinking at this point in the 2013 draft process, which is sketchy at best. His final rankings may be only average but as a starting point, he is a real source.
I think the mistake you make is the failure to check your opinions against other sources and rely only on your own abilities. GM's in the NFL hire numerous scouts to assess talent, note their collective opinions and then scout the players in the end themselves before coming to a final decision. They obviously have scouts they trust more than others but I doubt they dismiss anybodies opinions without checking them out thoroughly.
You appear to have a bright future as a draftnik but in the end your reputation will be based on your final assessments and to rely totally on your own opinion as I previously stated, is not how real scouting is done. You need a system where you check out others opinions more closely and then go back and reassess your own to see if they have seen something you missed or visa versa.
I give this advise as a 55 year draftnik who has been at this hobby for a long time, and I absolutely love the hard work I see you putting in and believe you could be another 'Scott' in the making.

Bucky Brook's top 5 QB's:
Matt Barkley
Tyler Wilson
E.J. Manuel
Tyler Bray
t-Aaron Murray
t-Landry Jones

Logan Thomas and Geno Smith are probably close but IMO Thomas who hasn't played QB all that long, is very raw compared to the others.
I'd love to see you break down Bucky Brook's assessment against your own opinions on why you disagree or what you may have missed. You can find his assessment on NFL.com.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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I didn't watch any Duke games last year because their top draft prospect was Matt Daniels, sorry.
I hear good things.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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I certainly love the hard work but I really question your ability to assess your rankings properly based solely on your own judgment.
Bucky Brooks early assessments are usually pretty solid and as an ex scout he has serious contacts within the scouting profession and tends to report what a majority of them are thinking at this point in the 2013 draft process, which is sketchy at best. His final rankings may be only average but as a starting point, he is a real source.
I think the mistake you make is the failure to check your opinions against other sources and rely only on your own abilities. GM's in the NFL hire numerous scouts to assess talent, note their collective opinions and then scout the players in the end themselves before coming to a final decision. They obviously have scouts they trust more than others but I doubt they dismiss anybodies opinions without checking them out thoroughly.
You appear to have a bright future as a draftnik but in the end your reputation will be based on your final assessments and to rely totally on your own opinion as I previously stated, is not how real scouting is done. You need a system where you check out others opinions more closely and then go back and reassess your own to see if they have seen something you missed or visa versa.
I give this advise as a 55 year draftnik who has been at this hobby for a long time, and I absolutely love the hard work I see you putting in and believe you could be another 'Scott' in the making.

Bucky Brook's top 5 QB's:
Matt Barkley
Tyler Wilson
E.J. Manuel
Tyler Bray
t-Aaron Murray
t-Landry Jones

Logan Thomas and Geno Smith are probably close but IMO Thomas who hasn't played QB all that long, is very raw compared to the others.
I'd love to see you break down Bucky Brook's assessment against your own opinions on why you disagree or what you may have missed. You can find his assessment on NFL.com.
Brooks seems to have put a lot of stock into size and potential; Wilson, Manuel, and Bray all have very strong arms and prototypical height which means their ceilings may be higher than Murray, but none of the quarterbacks in the class is as technically sound as Murray. I also think he forgot Logan Thomas, who is far more advanced than a guy like E.J. Manuel. I'm not a big fan of the mechanics of Wilson or Landry Jones; both have average footwork and inconsistent release points. Landry Jones isn't a very accurate passer either; his completion percentage is heavily inflated by the amount of screens/high percentage throws in Oklahoma's offense. Tyler Bray's footwork needs a lot of overhauling as well.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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As an OU alum, and watching Bradford and then Landry, you can see the differences night and day.
That one thing is accuracy and decision making. Landry at times is horrible at those things, but has the capability of being great.
To me, Landry has all you want with a QB prospect, he just needs to hone up on the accuracy/decision making process.
Last year, I predicted Landry was a mid 1st round pick who could see his stock rise/plummet. It fell down some to what people view him now as a late 1st/2nd round pick I take it.
I think if he has a solid season, you're looking at a mid/late 1st round pick. I mean, heck, Weeden was taken in the first for crying out loud. If he stinks it up, probably a 3rd rounder. He excels? Top 10 pick.
Good to see another OU alumni on the forums. Boomer Sooner!

But you're exactly right between Landry and Bradford. Just a quick fact, I watched Sam play his senior year against a high school that's just right down the road from mine. You'd never think the kid would be that good, he didn't even make it to the state playoffs his senior year, he went something like 5-7. Also, at the time when he was being recruited, my friend's dad was the Offensive Coordinator at OU at the time, and he was the only coach on the coaching staff who wanted to recruit Sam... Look how that turned out.

But as far as football now, Landry's draft stock greatly plummeted from last year, especially the second half of the season. He played very poorly without Broyles, but even before he was out he was going downhill as far as his performance. Landry has all the skill sets to be a great QB, he has a good arm, he's about 6'3" or so I think, and is a pretty hefty guy when you see him without pads. But he greatly has struggled with progressions and his accuracy at times. Sometimes he has incredible accuracy, but other passes just make you shake your head when watching OU. Kirk Herbstreit had him winning the Heisman last year as his preseason prediction, but I think this year he has a much better chance as far as his performance will allow him. The receiving corps is going to be incredible this year, and hopefully they help him out to improve his draft stock. My prediction is Landry will go around 25th overall, and be the next Aaron Rodgers plan, sitting behind a starting QB now as they mold him into something great. He won't ever be as good as A-Rod, but same concept.
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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Brooks seems to have put a lot of stock into size and potential; Wilson, Manuel, and Bray all have very strong arms and prototypical height which means their ceilings may be higher than Murray, but none of the quarterbacks in the class is as technically sound as Murray. I also think he forgot Logan Thomas, who is far more advanced than a guy like E.J. Manuel. I'm not a big fan of the mechanics of Wilson or Landry Jones; both have average footwork and inconsistent release points. Landry Jones isn't a very accurate passer either; his completion percentage is heavily inflated by the amount of screens/high percentage throws in Oklahoma's offense. Tyler Bray's footwork needs a lot of overhauling as well.
I agree with most of what you are saying, however nobody will care how they played last year if they suddenly put it all together in their final seasons. Size and potential count for a lot in the preseason evaluations. Their previous season won't count for squat if they have a super senior or junior year. You'd be amazed how many NFL QB's did very little till their final season when they blossomed.
Of all the QB's on Brook's list, the one that worries me the most is Wilson because Petrino doesn't have a good record for producing pro QB's.
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Brooks seems to have put a lot of stock into size and potential; Wilson, Manuel, and Bray all have very strong arms and prototypical height which means their ceilings may be higher than Murray, but none of the quarterbacks in the class is as technically sound as Murray. I also think he forgot Logan Thomas, who is far more advanced than a guy like E.J. Manuel. I'm not a big fan of the mechanics of Wilson or Landry Jones; both have average footwork and inconsistent release points. Landry Jones isn't a very accurate passer either; his completion percentage is heavily inflated by the amount of screens/high percentage throws in Oklahoma's offense. Tyler Bray's footwork needs a lot of overhauling as well.
Don't think Thomas is more advanced than Manuel. Thomas isn't asked to do much at all in the way of checks and reads in that offense, which are EJ's problems. EJ would look better than he currently does if he played in VT's simpler offense and Thomas would look terrible trying to run Fisher's offense.


I'm just not a fan of either as a top prospect.
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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i disagree with your assessment of murray i think he's mark sanchez. his physical tools are just "good enough" and his accuracy seemed streaky game to game imo.

i think with a good year geno smith could be in 2nd round possibilities

and for denard robinson, he is an incredible athlete but his passing makes tebow look like dan marino
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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Qb friendly draft, like the draft of 04.
Every year someone says this and half of the people don't declare.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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I guess I'm bigger on Logan Thomas than some. I see a better version of Josh Freeman. It is pretty amazing how advance Thomas is with so little time playing QB.

In reality I like Thomas, Bray and Wilson better than Barkley. I know it seems Barkley is the consensus #1 but I just don't see it.
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:05 AM    (permalink
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I watched some of the videos that people posted on the video thread. I really like that thread. I can see myself developing another addiction:)

I really like Aaron Murray. I think he has a great arm, a quick release and, my favorite trait in a QB, decisiveness. When he sees an open man he immediately goes with it. I wish he was taller. Some guys deal with lack of height better than others. He appears to play "short" to me. Then again, I watched his tape right after watching Bray, who is 6'6".

Speaking of Bray, am I the only one that noticed that when he drops back to pass he always gives away which side of the field he is going to by shifting his front foot in that direction as he sets up? If you watch his tape, as he settles into his drop his front foot turns either right, left or straight ahead, and he always throws that direction. Not only is it a dead giveaway as to where he is going with the ball, but is reduces his field of vision significantly as well. If I was a corner playing against him I would be looking to jump that every time. It's obviously a footwork issue. The question to me is how difficult would it be to fix such a habit. He does have a really nice arm, is very accurate, and a better athlete than most QB's. I want to watch more of him for sure.

I watched the entire Oregon game and came away fairly unimpressed with Barkley. He is definitely a strong game manager and has control of his offense. Really, more than anything, I just don't think he has a very good arm. Yes, he makes all the throws, but the difficult throws to the sidelines always come in low and the ball loses steam quickly. What's more, he almost launches his entire body into it in order to get it there. He only threw 4 or 5 passes over 20 yards the entire game and, honestly, on deep throws I thought his receivers made him look good. He does a lot of "dinking and dunking" and is very accurate in the short and intermediate game. Someone here made a comment along the lines of "Barkley makes 60 yard deep throws look effortless." I would like to know what a good game is to watch to see him do that. On a side note, Marquise Lee is really good. He might be my new favorite receiving prospect alongside Sammy Watkins.

Jones did nothing for me. His footwork leaves a lot to be desired. He never sets his feet, which I think is probably more responsible for his lack of velocity than an actual lack of arm strength. He rattles easily and doesn't look to have a whole lot of pocket presence or poise. I don't see him tearing up the NFL.

I like Wilson a lot, and I think he looks to be the most complete from the small amount I have watched here. He stands tall in the face of a passrush, and has a lot of zip on his throws. I thought he looked very comfortable as the leader of his team. While he didn't complete a lot of his deep throws, they were all pretty much right on the money. If he has a weakness it is that he isn't elusive or real athletic. It will be interesting to see how he does this year after losing his receivers to the NFL.

I am going to keep an open mind about all of these guys, as I haven't watched nearly enough to make a thorough analysis. My initial rankings, however, would be...

1) Wilson
2) Murray
3) Bray
4) Barkley
5) Jones
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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I think Geno Smith has way too much talent/potential to go lower than the third, more likely the 2nd.
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