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Old 05-20-2012, 01:27 AM    (permalink
Ness
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Didn't Harbaugh just say the other day that Crabtree has the best hands he has ever seen for a wide receiver?
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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"Money" and "value" isn't a variable in regards to the comment that it was done because Crabtree isn't good. The money and value is a variable because of how little top-talent they had at the position, as a whole.

You think that adding Moss, Manningham, and Jenkins to replace Swain, Hastings, and Jurovich is an indictment of Crabtree?

That's beyond a "stretch."

It was clear that the WR position had the least depth of any position on the team BY FAR. Trent Baalke addressed the issue aggressively. In 2011 one could say "the 49ers don't have much at WR aside from Crabtree." That can't be said in 2012.

The 49ers added 3 talented WRs at a cost of roughly $6.5 Million per season. I don't know how that is considered too much value.

In essence, they added Randy Moss, Mario Manningham, and A.J. Jenkins for essentially the same price as signing Robert Meachem.
This post makes too much sense on so many levels. But your a Niner fan so its obvious your just a homer and in return, it must be belittled.

/sarcasm
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:40 AM    (permalink
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and their approach in 2012 isn't far removed from that of 2011.

Drafted WRs - Ronald Johnson | A.J. Jenkins
Flyer on a FA Vet WR w/ baggage - Braylon Edwards | Randy Moss
1 year deal - Ted Ginn | Ted Ginn

The only difference is the addition of Mario Manningham. But he was a FA signing to replace Joshua Morgan. If they re-signed Morgan it would've been exactly the same.
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:09 AM    (permalink
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This post makes too much sense on so many levels. But your a Niner fan so its obvious your just a homer and in return, it must be belittled.

/sarcasm
Did I ever disagree with his post? No. I actually agree with him that the acquisition of WRs this off-season does not mean Crabtree is on his way out. Every post I've made in this thread is on Crabtree's laziness and that all you've been doing to refute anything I say is some excuse or insult. I have one claim, that he's lazy and feels entitled, and that he won't reach his potential until he quits this diva act. I've shown you enough instances where this attitude has caused trouble with others on his team. However, you keep bringing up excuses and blaming every other player on this team from Alex Smith to Vernon Davis or blaming the front office and coaches for their offensive scheme and their lack of inability to get a real WR across from him. Yet you've failed to show me one shred of evidence that proves this is why Crabtree has been mediocre at best, however, if asked I can easily show you instances of WRs that have done great even with constantly changing offensive schemes, mediocre WRs across from them, horrible QB play, etc. And why is he held to such a high standard? Because he was the 10th pick in the draft who held out for a huge contract then failed to be above average for the next 3 seasons.

Honestly, all you've been doing is attacking me on every post instead of proving me wrong. All I hear is you yapping your mouth saying things like "you don't know what you're talking about cause you don't watch enough games" or "none of your beliefs on Crabtree can be true because you're biased." How about using a better argument than claiming that I don't know ****?
And if Crabtree continues to be lazy this off-season, he'll just prove me right during the regular season.

And stop saying Smith failed to throw to him every time he was open. It was few and far between. He also liked to drop the few throws that were thrown to him. He also completely disappeared during the playoffs...considering you had **** after him on the roster at WR...and he was the number 2 target on the team after Davis, who balled, it's sad that he wasn't able to take advantage of it. Even his only notable catch in the playoffs was his TD catch that was due to the Saints DBs messing up on assignments. The guy completely disappeared and none of it was Smith's fault.

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Old 05-20-2012, 02:47 AM    (permalink
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I meet more in the middle. I don't think he's bad. Not even close. I think he's been quite good. He hasn't had alot of explosive and/or flashy plays which has hurt.

But I also agree that he can motivate his work and couple that with the blessing of good health to accomplish much, MUCH more as an NFL player.

He put himself in a bad light, and it will take alot for his play to overcome the image in which he's been cast/cast on himself.

I have full confidence this process has already begun and he will impress for years.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:19 AM    (permalink
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I meet more in the middle. I don't think he's bad. Not even close. I think he's been quite good. He hasn't had alot of explosive and/or flashy plays which has hurt.

But I also agree that he can motivate his work and couple that with the blessing of good health to accomplish much, MUCH more as an NFL player.

He put himself in a bad light, and it will take alot for his play to overcome the image in which he's been cast/cast on himself.

I have full confidence this process has already begun and he will impress for years.
I'm saying he's bad compared to his draft position...and the way he's acted as if he was some superstar. A lot of talk but not enough to show for it. For a 10th pick I expected more impact for the team especially in his 3rd year. Like I said in a previous reply, DHB and Crabtree are both busts. But DHB works his ass off and his high draft position was due to Davis' fault, not DHB's, and he shuts up and works, so it's difficult to criticize him. While Crabtree believed he deserved more money than where he was picked...please...but yeah, if he can get his act together, I think he'll reach his potential.

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Old 05-20-2012, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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JMO but if DHB and Crabtree can be consistent 1,000 yard performers, it would be unfair to call them busts. They may not be elite NFL receivers but I wouldn't designate them as busts if they can do what I aforementioned.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Gotta love the offseason.

Crabtree isn't a good NFL player. He can't separate, he's not the best route runner, he's not big enough to body guys up, he just doesn't get open on a regular basis.

Just watch him play. He's not very good. And his work ethic doesn't help matters either.

Hes establishing himself as a very average possession WR. That's not top 10 worthy.

He's been in the league for 3 years now, and he wasn't a developmental player coming out of the draft. You are what you are after awhile, and he is what he is.

DHB needed development, so his production is somewhat understandable. And he can continue to develop. Crabtree is what he is, he's not going to get much better than what you see.

Expecting a light to suddenly come on for him is wishful thinking. He's not that good.
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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JMO but if DHB and Crabtree can be consistent 1,000 yard performers, it would be unfair to call them busts. They may not be elite NFL receivers but I wouldn't designate them as busts if they can do what I aforementioned.
IMO a 1000 yard performance is a poor indicator of success. What if the 1000 yards came on 150 receptions? So many of the other stats have to be taken into account along with where the players were drafted. Jeremy Maclin, Hakeem Nicks, Percy Harvin, and Mike Wallace have all outproduced both of them. And if you don't want to look at stats since coaches and offensive schemes could affect them so much, look at impact. All these WRs have impacted their team immensely, while Crabtree and DHB have barely made a dent in their teams' success rate.
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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I'm not saying they were worthy of top ten picks. But considering how many top ten picks end up far worse, they aren't busts. IMO. The word has too heavy of a negative conotation.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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Jeremy Maclin, Hakeem Nicks, Percy Harvin, and Mike Wallace have all outproduced both of them. And if you don't want to look at stats since coaches and offensive schemes could affect them so much, look at impact. All these WRs have impacted their team immensely, while Crabtree and DHB have barely made a dent in their teams' success rate.
I think its more of a factor that 3 out of the 4 WRs you named have Vick, Eli, and Big Ben as their QBs.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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I think its more of a factor that 3 out of the 4 WRs you named have Vick, Eli, and Big Ben as their QBs.
But Maclin looked as good with McNabb and Kolb. Eli Manning didn't breakout until Nicks came...so I would say Nick caused Manning's breakout. Roethlisberger's breakout didn't come until Wallace came too.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:41 PM    (permalink
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But Maclin looked as good with McNabb and Kolb. Eli Manning didn't breakout until Nicks came...so I would say Nick caused Manning's breakout. Roethlisberger's breakout didn't come until Wallace came too.
I don't remember Hakeem Knicks in the 2007 playoffs.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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I don't remember Hakeem Knicks in the 2007 playoffs.
Pretty sure I said when Manning brokeout...he didn't until 2009. Just cause he had one lucky throw in 2007 doesn't mean he was a great QB then.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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But Maclin looked as good with McNabb and Kolb. Eli Manning didn't breakout until Nicks came...so I would say Nick caused Manning's breakout. Roethlisberger's breakout didn't come until Wallace came too.
I'd argue this, especially Roethlisberger. Arguably his best statistical season (2007) and a Super Bowl came without Wallace. Suggesting that he didn't break out until the 2009 season is just absurd.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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Pretty sure I said when Manning brokeout...he didn't until 2009. Just cause he had one lucky throw in 2007 doesn't mean he was a great QB then.
He lacked consistency until about 2010, maybe even 2011. But he's been a damn good QB for a long time.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Pretty sure I said when Manning brokeout...he didn't until 2009. Just cause he had one lucky throw in 2007 doesn't mean he was a great QB then.
I'd say Manning reached his prime around then but I wouldn't say he "broke out" then. I consider breaking out when a player finally reaches potential in a short span or when a player seemingly comes from nowhere to become a good player so I could say Manning never really broke out. He quickly grew to become a good quarterback and he's followed a similar career path of other top quarterbacks.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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I'd argue this, especially Roethlisberger. Arguably his best statistical season (2007) and a Super Bowl came without Wallace. Suggesting that he didn't break out until the 2009 season is just absurd.
It's not that absurd. I say it's arguable both ways. IMO, the 2007 Steelers had a much better run game and defense. The offensive line was actually good back then too. They also added Holmes the year before. I think having such a great team around him helped him get that surge in statistics, but the real breakout didn't happen until he had both Holmes and Wallace on the team. And seeing that he hasn't regressed much with the loss of Holmes, I would say that Wallace was the biggest factor.

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Old 05-20-2012, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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He lacked consistency until about 2010, maybe even 2011. But he's been a damn good QB for a long time.
He's been good. Not great. Same argument I have for Roethlisberger. They were good, but they didn't reach their potential until Wallace and Nicks came.

With their draft positions, DHB and Crabtree should have had the same impact already, that is why I call them busts. But I do agree that bust has a negative connotation that might be a little too strong to call DHB and Crabtree.
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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With their draft positions, DHB and Crabtree should have had the same impact already, that is why I call them busts. But I do agree that bust has a negative connotation that might be a little too strong to call DHB and Crabtree.
I think as of right now, they're more like a disappointment. I reserve bust for those who stay on the roster for two-three years, never really reach 'starter' label (or reach it for just a very short while) and are out of the team/league quickly after.
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:27 PM    (permalink
Bolt
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I think as of right now, they're more like a disappointment. I reserve bust for those who stay on the roster for two-three years, never really reach 'starter' label (or reach it for just a very short while) and are out of the team/league quickly after.
I find Heyward-Bey far from a disappointment at all, in fact I was impressed by his play last season. He's still horribly inconsistant, but put up very respectable numbers from average at best quarterbacks. Everyone knew he was an extremely raw prospect, to me the fact that he has gotten to almost 1000 yards in three seasons is impressive for a player who was that raw and went through that much scrutiny.

I agree with what was stated earlier; he's only conisdered a bust for his draft position. A bust is a player who underachieves based off their ability throughout their career. If I picked a ****** player in the top 10 would that make him a bust?
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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It's not that absurd. I say it's arguable both ways. IMO, the 2007 Steelers had a much better run game and defense. The offensive line was actually good back then too. They also added Holmes the year before. I think having such a great team around him helped him get that surge in statistics, but the real breakout didn't happen until he had both Holmes and Wallace on the team. And seeing that he hasn't regressed much with the loss of Holmes, I would say that Wallace was the biggest factor.
Ibsee what you're saying, but I think its just that we consider a 'break out' season to be two different things. Saying that giving Roethlisberger a deep threat in Wallace in 09 to expand his game I guess makes sense to me as a potential 'break out', I just consider that going into his prime as he was arguably a top 6 or 7 quarterback in the league before that.

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Old 05-20-2012, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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I find Heyward-Bey far from a disappointment at all, in fact I was impressed by his play last season. He's still horribly inconsistant, but put up very respectable numbers from average at best quarterbacks. Everyone knew he was an extremely raw prospect, to me the fact that he has gotten to almost 1000 yards in three seasons is impressive for a player who was that raw and went through that much scrutiny.

I agree with what was stated earlier; he's only conisdered a bust for his draft position. A bust is a player who underachieves based off their ability throughout their career. If I picked a ****** player in the top 10 would that make him a bust?
He's not a disappointment from the expectations that were placed on him...since those expectations were so low. But you rarely see expectations that low placed on a player drafted where he was picked. So if you look only at where he was drafted, he would be a disappointment. If you look at the expectations Al Davis had for him, he's probably a disappointment too. I think the interesting thing is that while he's improved a lot on not dropping, even though he still does drop a lot of passes, 70% of his receptions last year went for 1st downs. With a real off-season with Palmer and a 4th year of working hard, he can really nail that flanker job down.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Did I ever disagree with his post? No. I actually agree with him that the acquisition of WRs this off-season does not mean Crabtree is on his way out. Every post I've made in this thread is on Crabtree's laziness and that all you've been doing to refute anything I say is some excuse or insult. I have one claim, that he's lazy and feels entitled, and that he won't reach his potential until he quits this diva act. I've shown you enough instances where this attitude has caused trouble with others on his team. However, you keep bringing up excuses and blaming every other player on this team from Alex Smith to Vernon Davis or blaming the front office and coaches for their offensive scheme and their lack of inability to get a real WR across from him. Yet you've failed to show me one shred of evidence that proves this is why Crabtree has been mediocre at best, however, if asked I can easily show you instances of WRs that have done great even with constantly changing offensive schemes, mediocre WRs across from them, horrible QB play, etc. And why is he held to such a high standard? Because he was the 10th pick in the draft who held out for a huge contract then failed to be above average for the next 3 seasons.

Honestly, all you've been doing is attacking me on every post instead of proving me wrong. All I hear is you yapping your mouth saying things like "you don't know what you're talking about cause you don't watch enough games" or "none of your beliefs on Crabtree can be true because you're biased." How about using a better argument than claiming that I don't know ****?
And if Crabtree continues to be lazy this off-season, he'll just prove me right during the regular season.

And stop saying Smith failed to throw to him every time he was open. It was few and far between. He also liked to drop the few throws that were thrown to him. He also completely disappeared during the playoffs...considering you had **** after him on the roster at WR...and he was the number 2 target on the team after Davis, who balled, it's sad that he wasn't able to take advantage of it. Even his only notable catch in the playoffs was his TD catch that was due to the Saints DBs messing up on assignments. The guy completely disappeared and none of it was Smith's fault.
Seriously, wtf? No one mentioned your name. Every post I make in this thread is not directed towards you unless your directly quoted so chillax, its not that deep. We dont see eye to eye when it comes to Crabs so leave it at that because I already have.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:46 AM    (permalink
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Seriously, wtf? No one mentioned your name. Every post I make in this thread is not directed towards you unless your directly quoted so chillax, its not that deep. We dont see eye to eye when it comes to Crabs so leave it at that because I already have.
Yeah...I called you a homer and the previous reply and then you go and use that sarcastically...it wasn't directed towards me at all. You're the one that needs to "chillax" dude. Getting all worked up and cause people think Crabtree is lazy.
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