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Old 05-24-2012, 11:56 PM    (permalink
sbh15
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Indiana is such a nice looking young team with such a bright future, I see so many ways to make them a contender next year. The most blatant would be signing Eric Gordon. Granted he returns to form I think that would make them a contender for the title. George Hill/Gordon/Granger/West/Hibbert with Collison, George, and Hansborough off the bench would be great. If they can't land Gordon I would split my money between two guys Jamal Crawford and Carl Landry. Crawford because they need a guy who can break down a defense and create his own shot and Landry would be the perfect bench backup big. Granger probably stays but trade for their respective teams that has always made sense to me is Granger for Iguodala. Philly needs more of a scorer with guys similar to Iggy in Turner and Thaddeus, and if the Pacers had Iguodala beside Gordon they would be tough to beat. In the draft they should definitely target a shooter like Doron Lamb or Jenkins. I'd be excited about the future if I were an Indiana fan.
I'd take it a step further if I were the Pacers and make a play for Lou Williams in that same deal, provided the cap would work out. Hill, Gordon, Iguodala, West, Hibbert with Williams and George off the bench.
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Old 05-25-2012, 02:07 AM    (permalink
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If I'm LAL I would take that in a second but Houston doesn't seem to be willing to let go of Lowry.
I heard they might be willing to let Lowry go and sign Dragic back.
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Old 05-25-2012, 02:09 AM    (permalink
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It's absolutely game over if he does barring him somehow just losing it. Nash is so damn good.
You know, I'm not completely sure. I think I still might put OKC above them. Their team is so fluid and Ibaka anchoring that defense is all worldly.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:22 AM    (permalink
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Nash having to guard Westbrook is a major issue. At least Chalmers can somewhat try to play Defense on him, I just don't think Nash's best fit is Miami. I highly doubt Wade and LeBron will allow him to take the reigns as far as ball possession goes plus neither are great off the ball players. Nash can create open jump shots for them but that's what teams want, I want LeBron and Wade having to make jump shots over iso, drive, foul call. As great as he Nash is and how he'd transform a team like the Lakers or Dallas, I just dont think he's a great fit for Miami.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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Nash having to guard Westbrook is a major issue. At least Chalmers can somewhat try to play Defense on him, I just don't think Nash's best fit is Miami. I highly doubt Wade and LeBron will allow him to take the reigns as far as ball possession goes plus neither are great off the ball players. Nash can create open jump shots for them but that's what teams want, I want LeBron and Wade having to make jump shots over iso, drive, foul call. As great as he Nash is and how he'd transform a team like the Lakers or Dallas, I just dont think he's a great fit for Miami.
Nash and Dirk need to reunite. That would be sweet. They'd have multiple rings by now if he never left in the first place.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Nash having to guard Westbrook is a major issue. At least Chalmers can somewhat try to play Defense on him, I just don't think Nash's best fit is Miami. I highly doubt Wade and LeBron will allow him to take the reigns as far as ball possession goes plus neither are great off the ball players. Nash can create open jump shots for them but that's what teams want, I want LeBron and Wade having to make jump shots over iso, drive, foul call. As great as he Nash is and how he'd transform a team like the Lakers or Dallas, I just dont think he's a great fit for Miami.
This has some credence, but if Nash goes to the Heat he is clearly ring hunting. Hell, start Chalmers with LBJ and Wade and then have Nash and Bosh run **** when the big guns need a rest.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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This has some credence, but if Nash goes to the Heat he is clearly ring hunting. Hell, start Chalmers with LBJ and Wade and then have Nash and Bosh run **** when the big guns need a rest.
Never has this quote become more relevant

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Old 05-25-2012, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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See how inept (or competent) your GM is!

Hoops Hype GMs
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Old 05-25-2012, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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See how inept (or competent) your GM is!

Hoops Hype GMs
All that reminds is of the fact that Dumars hasn't made a trade in 35 months.
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Best transaction: Traded first-round picks in 2013 and 2015, a 2012 second-round pick, another future second-round pick and a trade exception to the Cleveland Cavaliers for forward LeBron James on July 9, 2010.

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Old 05-25-2012, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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All that reminds is of the fact that Dumars hasn't made a trade in 35 months.
at least his greatest accomplishment isn't "resigned Grant Hill"
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Nash having to guard Westbrook is a major issue. At least Chalmers can somewhat try to play Defense on him, I just don't think Nash's best fit is Miami. I highly doubt Wade and LeBron will allow him to take the reigns as far as ball possession goes plus neither are great off the ball players. Nash can create open jump shots for them but that's what teams want, I want LeBron and Wade having to make jump shots over iso, drive, foul call. As great as he Nash is and how he'd transform a team like the Lakers or Dallas, I just dont think he's a great fit for Miami.
I don't think Chalmers on Westbrook will be a problem this season. This season, It will be Chalmers on Parker. OH, no I didn't. Thats right I got the Spurs winning it.....all. :(
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Nash and Dirk need to reunite. That would be sweet. They'd have multiple rings by now if he never left in the first place.
Ya Mark Cuban is a ******

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February 24 2011
Traded guard Goran Dragic and a future first-round pick to the Houston Rockets for guard Aaron Brooks.
on my birthday no less

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December 18 2010
Traded guard Jason Richardson and forwards Hidayet Turkoglu and Earl Clark to the Orlando Magic for guards Vince Carter and Mickael Pietrus, center Marcin Gortat, a 2011 first-round pick and cash.
Can't complain about this one though :)
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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Ya Mark Cuban is a ******

on my birthday no less


Can't complain about this one though :)
Yeah, I can't complain about that trade either from the Magic's POV.

We ended up resigning JRich and Clark for cheap, and Hedo is not bad...just his contract is... and next year it gets cut in half anyways so, there's that.

What did you guys do with that 2011 draft pick?
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I can't complain about that trade either from the Magic's POV.

We ended up resigning JRich and Clark for cheap, and Hedo is not bad...just his contract is... and next year it gets cut in half anyways so, there's that.

What did you guys do with that 2011 draft pick?
Yes you can. You had a ready made Dwight replacement in Gortat who can average 15/11, and all you got back was a shooting guard way past his prime, a bench forward, and a hideous contract from a guy who was far better 3 years ago.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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not to mention that (as I seem to remember) Carter and Pietrus' contracts were expiring or close to it
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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not to mention that (as I seem to remember) Carter and Pietrus' contracts were expiring or close to it
yup both were expiring and we ending up sending that pick for Aaron Brooks, but we would of just sold it anyways

Obviously Gortat doesn't mean as much to the Magic with Dwight but he will be sorely missed if he chooses to leave, Gortat is a top 5 C in the west and top 10 in the NBA who had a 4/28 contract in place
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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Ladies and Gentleman I would like to introduce to you the new Knicks coach for the next 3 years.









Mr. Potato Head aka Mike Woodson.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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Yes you can. You had a ready made Dwight replacement in Gortat who can average 15/11, and all you got back was a shooting guard way past his prime, a bench forward, and a hideous contract from a guy who was far better 3 years ago.
WTF do we need a replacement for Howard for? He's here and he's staying. Gortat was rotting on our bench and being a lockerroom cancer always crying about playing time and he never got along with Dwight.

JRich is better than Vince, and we'll get more out of him.

As for Hedo... You can think you know everything, but it doesn't sound like you do. He's the same player he always was. It's easy to point to Toronto and Phoenix as flops, but they didn't use him the same way he was used in Orlando, and they put too much expectations on him.

In Orlando, Hedo didn't have a lot of pressure on him since Howard, Lewis, and Nelson commanded more attention. All he ever did good was dribble the ball up court, faciliate good ball movement and hit 3s. His defense was always questionable and whenever he was called upon to be the go-to scorer, he failed more times than he was successful.

Before Rashard got there Hedo was always the subject of trade rumors because he wasn't getting the job done. Signing Rashard was actually intended to replace Hedo at SF. But SVG made it work with Shard at PF and all of a sudden the Magic were doing good things.

But when his contract was up, Toronto threw their money at him because they saw his success develop. They didn't recognize that his success emerged due to the team around him moreso than it was due to himself becoming this newly found 20 ppg scorer. So they thought they could pay him big money and simply plug and play him hoping to see the same results, but they found out the hard way that he wasn't as good of a #2 scoring option as he was as a #4 option like he was in Orlando. Their expectations were miscalculated. Had he stayed in Orlando, he would've continued the same kind of success. He didn't get to Toronto and then all of a sudden age 10 years or something. He was the same player, put in a different environment and one that wasn't suited for him to see the same success.

In PHX it was just more of the same thing, but worse. With a PG like Calderon in TOR, there was hardly a need to let the ball facilitate through Hedo's hands... something that was a big strength of his. With Nash in PHX, forget it... that part of Hedo's game wasn't even in the game plan. People just wanted him to score.... which is never what he was good at, except in situations where the attention wasn't on him. ie. being the 4th option in ORL.
But without a passing PG like Calderon and Nash in ORL, Hedo is in a much better spot to be more useful and effective again.

He was always more useful to us than most other teams because we used him differently and we expected less of him. He had instant chemistry from the get go upon his return. He knew how to make entry passes to Dwight in the post better than anyone who was on our roster previously. Jameer isn't a good passer so Hedo immediately brought that back to the team. His passing is not any worse than it was 3 years ago or however far back in relevance you want to go. So calling him a worse player isn't as clear cut as you want to make it sound.

Here, he could play point foward and not have to carry a scoring burden. Just bring the ball up court, make nice passes and hit an open 3. Everything about him was the same as it was before except for his points per game. If you think the PPG stat is the tell all sign of regression then, you shouldn't go around talking about basketball and act like the elitist you want people to think you are. The emergence of Ryan Anderson's scoring, the addition of Glen Davis, the bigger role that Redick has now than he had in '08, along with Dwight's bigger scoring role in the post all attributes to Turkoglu's dip in scoring from '08 to '12. It doesn't mean that he's significantly worse.

His expectation to score isn't the same, and rightfully so as it's been proven that he's a complimentary scorer, not a main threat. ORL would be doing a disservice to him and themselves by asking him to be more than that.

The ONLY reason why he handcuffs the Magic is because of his salary. If you want to rip that, I can join you. It is hideous. Thankfully, only 1 more year of that hideousness. It won't be in the way of us hitting FA hard when Dwight becomes a FA.

The Suns may be happy with Gortat, but he's not sorely missed. JRich and Clark resigned for cheap so the trade was not just a rental. Clark is our best defender outside of Dwight and teams need that. ....even if it's just in a bench role.

So I think both teams came out getting what they hoped for.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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not to mention that (as I seem to remember) Carter and Pietrus' contracts were expiring or close to it
Carter and Richardson were both making $17M+ and both were expiring. So that's a moot point.

The Magic made a mistaking thinking JRich would be a better scorer, but they didn't realize his success came from having a top notch passer like Nash to set him up. Having Jameer at the point doesn't exactly have the same effect and while Hedo can help, he's more of a facilitator for Dwight than anything else.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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J-Rich is barely even worth the money he's making now.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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Orlando is stuck paying a combined 17 mil for one guy putting up a line of 10/4/4 and another putting up 12/3/4... I don't think that's what they were looking for coming out of that deal.

Richardson's deal aside, they knew full well they were getting Hedo's god awful contract for the next 3-4 years and still gave up Gortat, 2 expirings, and a 1st. Doesn't matter how you spin it, it's a bad trade
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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Orlando is stuck paying a combined 17 mil for one guy putting up a line of 10/4/4 and another putting up 12/3/4... I don't think that's what they were looking for coming out of that deal.

Richardson's deal aside, they knew full well they were getting Hedo's god awful contract for the next 3-4 years and still gave up Gortat, 2 expirings, and a 1st. Doesn't matter how you spin it, it's a bad trade
Did you miss the part where I said Jrich was an expiring too? He and Vince's contracts were a wash. You wanna give glory to an avg Pietrus contract, go for it. Gortat was rotting on our bench and the 1st was a late first. You have no perspective in your argument.

17M for 22/7/8? Actually, NBA teams do pay out that kind of money for that kind of production. It's not the great, but there are plenty worse. Your whole sense of what's good and bad is completely flawed. You don't build a team by collecting players who put up huge stat lines like a fantasy team. You find peices that fit what you are trying to do, and players who will complement each other the right way. Which JRich, Turk and Clark all do. Good Lord. JRich's outside shot helps draw defenders out, Turk is a good point forward who has good chemistry with Dwight and eases the burden of passing from Jameer, and Clark gives defense, much added youth and some young body to develop.

Get. A. Clue.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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J-Rich is barely even worth the money he's making now.
He's not handcuffing the team. Another good reason he signed is because Redick has a clause in his contract where the Magic can waive him before July 7th and his contract would be taken off the books. So there is that option to clear cap this summer if the situation dictates it to be prudent. They could also trade Redick to a team looking to clear cap this summer. So JRich's deal probably kept that in mind too when he signed.

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Old 05-25-2012, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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My favorite trade or series of trades was this:

Wizards give up:
James Singelton(Played in China this year)

Wizards Receive:
Kevin Seraphin(First rounder), Jordan Crawford(First Rounder), Chris Singleton(First Rounder), Mo Evans.
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