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Old 06-05-2012, 08:37 PM    (permalink
Splat
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Originally Posted by ImBrotherCain View Post
*Cough Cough* Four options.
I use my computer for porn thank you.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by descendency View Post
I get tired of the "next generation" argument and the "fun games" argument.

Dead Rising was on the 360 and PS3 way before the Wii, because when they finally brought the Wii version out, it was painfully bad. It wasn't a developer issue. It was the difference between next generation and previous generation gameplay.

Or take The Conduit. It's arguably the best shooter on the Wii. It's not even in the same ballpark as any of the best shooters on the 360, PS3, or PC.

Nintendo is the only company that makes AAA caliber games on the Wii.

Processing power, RAM, and GPU power do a lot more than just "make pretty graphics". Games like Fallout 3 are simply not possible on the Wii.

Nintendo makes the best games of anyone (and it's not even close), but the 3rd party games are terrible on their hardware, which has basically been true since the end of the N64.
I didn't see this earlier, but I wanted to highlight it. I don't agree that Nintendo makes the best games(just not my thing, but that's cool), but you obviously have to respect their dedication to quality products....even if they're starting to get a little re-hashy at this point. The point about hardware doing more than just graphics is a really good good one.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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I use my computer for porn thank you.
Well when a porn video game becomes main stream I am sure you will game with your computer.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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I use my computer for porn thank you.
Don't even need to do that anymore if you have a 360/PS3!
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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Even though the Wii U isn't for me, imagine the possibilities with pornography. Now that's innovation.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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Even though the Wii U isn't for me, imagine the possibilities with pornography. Now that's innovation.
I'm pretty sure that is what they had in mind when they named it.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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Did I miss anything at E3 today? I saw the Nintendo conference but that was it.
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
..which is entirely arguing about semantics and terminology. That doesn't really matter whatsoever in this case.
He said Wii U doesn't look like next-gen. Next gen isn't determined by power and graphics, it's consoles that compete against each other. So yes, I was arguing against his lack of understanding of what generations are.

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We've seen absolutely nothing to suggest that the Wii U is a significant leap forward technologically over what we already have. Do you think for a second that if they were killing Sony and Microsoft hardware wise that they wouldn't be beating their chest about it? This entire conference is about marketing and that's a MASSIVE marketing point. They wouldn't be able to resist squawking about it(nor should they). Developers would be announcing big time titles to take advantage of it as well and we've seen none of that. All the third party games announced basically look the same.
The Wii U is a significant leap in comparison to their current console, the Wii. Is it a leap in comparison to PS3/360 and their next console? Well, we don't know yet but it's safe to assume it won't be. And it doesn't have to be. The Wii wasn't a big leap from Gamecube to Wii. The Xbox/PS2 leap to their respective successors was though. Guess what? The Wii did fine. Actually, it sold better than PS3 and 360.

Quote:
The PC will always have more advanced hardware, no one can deny that. But it's entirely reasonable to expect consoles to advance their technology forward. Forenci basically killed this portion of it already, but I'll just basically echo what he said.
As I stated above, the Wii U is advancing their technology.

Quote:
Before the ad hominem crap you're so eager to shout at every given opportunity gets turned on me, I have a high end computer currently and have at most points in my life as well.

I really don't hate Nintendo's approach. If they don't want to compete graphically, that's fine. I personally will take art style over polygon count any day of the week(Journey was one of the best looking games I've ever seen.)...and I don't think I'm really alone in that. I have other options to look for as far as that end of it goes. I am legitimately disappointed that they've to basically take the easy road lately, with tons of casual titles and sequels. The quality on their first party offerings is always there, but it's all starting to feel very sameish. We(myself included) accuse so many company's/games of being derivative, but Nintendo always seems to get a pass on this front. If you aren't going to compete visually and furthermore technologically(which is perfectly fine, before anyone puts words in my mouth), you damn well better be coming out with original, fresh games year after year. They aren't doing that for me anymore.

Furthermore, the approach they've chosen to take completely alienates them from third party developers. They have plenty of support right now, sure. But when developers have to make two different games for the Wii U and PS4/720, that will go away. Just as it did with the Wii.
Nintendo has released tons of quality games. It may seem "sameish" to you, but it's the quality that I look forward to. Too many times game franchises have tried to do something completely new and failed. While there may not as much change you might want to see, they still seem fresh and fun to me. Third party games weren't developed or marketed right. It's not Nintendo's doing that they decided to make their games casual crap. Quality games could be done on the Wii, and there were a bunch.

I'd say the Wii's control system alienated third party developers more than anything. It's not something that can be ported over. With the wii u pro controller, they can avoid this.
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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all games ever seem the same to me

GTA 3+/RDR/AC/Saints Row all the same
MW/BO/every FPS
every sports game ever

very rarely do you get a original game
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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Oops didn't mean to post again.
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fenikz View Post
all games ever seem the same to me

GTA 3+/RDR/AC/Saints Row all the same
MW/BO/every FPS
every sports game ever

very rarely do you get a original game
RDR, GTA, and RDR are all similar. Assuming you mean Arkham City, that game is not really similar to the other three at all.

MW and Halo are two completely different FPS games.

Sports games are similar in that they are sports, but after that they're all different.

I don't agree that you rarely get an original game, each year you get a couple really cool original games.
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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Assasian's Creed haven't played the batman games
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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The problem with your list is you're picking and choosing such a small amount of games. There's plenty of creativity and innovation if you look around.
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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Some pretty well articulated opinion pieces on E3 from a site which is fast becomming a favorite of mine:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...-becomes-vile/

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...gaming-i-know/
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nrk View Post
He said Wii U doesn't look like next-gen. Next gen isn't determined by power and graphics, it's consoles that compete against each other. So yes, I was arguing against his lack of understanding of what generations are.
Which again, semantics argument. The Wii U is Nintendo's next-gen console. That doesn't mean it looks like what we should expect next-gen games should. You know exactly what he meant and chose to pick a fight over wording the make the rest of your argument look more convincing. Straw man.



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Originally Posted by nrk View Post
The Wii U is a significant leap in comparison to their current console, the Wii. Is it a leap in comparison to PS3/360 and their next console? Well, we don't know yet but it's safe to assume it won't be. And it doesn't have to be. The Wii wasn't a big leap from Gamecube to Wii. The Xbox/PS2 leap to their respective successors was though. Guess what? The Wii did fine. Actually, it sold better than PS3 and 360.
Because sales are always such a great barometer of quality with games, books, and basically anything else....which I'm sure you would be willing to point out if it it didn't line up with what you were trying to prove. Commercial success isn't what we're talking about here. Your facts are wrong too. The Xbox 360 recently overtook the Wii as the best selling console world wide. Guess why? For same reason the Wii was so successful. The casual audience.


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Originally Posted by nrk View Post
As I stated above, the Wii U is advancing their technology.
Which isn't a great feat considering the hardware was already dated when it launched.



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Originally Posted by nrk View Post
Nintendo has released tons of quality games. It may seem "sameish" to you, but it's the quality that I look forward to. Too many times game franchises have tried to do something completely new and failed. While there may not as much change you might want to see, they still seem fresh and fun to me. Third party games weren't developed or marketed right. It's not Nintendo's doing that they decided to make their games casual crap. Quality games could be done on the Wii, and there were a bunch.

I'd say the Wii's control system alienated third party developers more than anything. It's not something that can be ported over. With the wii u pro controller, they can avoid this.
As far as good games on the Wii, Nintendo hardly put out "tons" of good games. Nintendo is notoriously meticulous with their games, which serves them well as far as quality goes...but doesn't lend itself well to numbers. The release calender the past few years has been basically empty, with Skyward Sword and Xenoblade(which was pretty damn good) being the only real big time titles to make it stateside.

I don't know how you can deny there's isn't some sort of correlation between the lack of interest in developers who put out big games on other platforms and Nintendo's weak hardware. People get excited by the new possibilities advance hardware bring(and again, we're not just talking about visual acuity), so it's only natural that people will focus their creative energy into those types of opportunities. The argument for Nintendo is always so eager to point out that you can make great games on limited hardware. This is absolutely true. I've played plenty of great indie games over the past few years that probably could have cut it as SNES games....but that's entirely ignoring that you can have it both ways. You can(and plenty of people do)make strong games with the benefits of newer technology. Provided there's a market for that, why not try it that way? Technology is more integral to the progression of this medium than perhaps any other. Just because you don't have to move forward doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it anyway.

Oh, and you can be innovative with a higher polygon count. Innovation isn't exclusively born out of limitation. It might encourage it to an extent, but it isn't a requirement. Not that you've said that yet, but it usually enters the argument at about this point.
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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What do you guys think about consoles being threatened by mobile devices in the future? I mean it seems only a matter of time before a mobile device has the hardware capability to do 3D at a level most of the gaming market find acceptable. I imagine investment in mobile hardware going forward is only going to keep increasing so I could see mobile devices catching up to console hardware.

Of course I'm not saying mobile gaming itself will overtake - mobile devices will need to intergrate into the console world i.e. TVs, controllers etc. But that's just a mater of technology moving to allow it. There's nothing fundamentally impossible about a mobile device turning into a static console when you want to play high end games on your TV.

I think the days of specialized console hardware making losses for companies so they can up their profit margins on games is numbered. It was obviously always preferable to avoid having to make hardware and simply leverage existing customer hardware out there, but the only type of hardware that had the right penetration was PC desktops, and these proved too complex and unpredictable for a casual enthusiast gaming market to flourish. Now that everyone in the consuming world is gagging for the latest mobile hardware, perhaps this will change - iOS could be the most prolific gaming platform by 2020 for all things gaming, whether mobile or high end console grade gaming.

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Old 06-05-2012, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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The problem with your list is you're picking and choosing such a small amount of games. There's plenty of creativity and innovation if you look around.
I'd love a list, market is flooded with 99% of the same **** every year
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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I'd love a list, market is flooded with 99% of the same **** every year
You left Portal 2 off your list.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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And a million others
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fenikz View Post
all games ever seem the same to me

GTA 3+/RDR/AC/Saints Row all the same
MW/BO/every FPS
every sports game ever

very rarely do you get a original game
Why use games as a qualifier? Movies plots are essentially the same with a few detail changed. Book plots are often recycled and pieced together from previous ideas(although the delivery system of books is so intimate that no one will ever really complain). Entire genres of music are basically dedicated to re-arranging the same few chords that people have been playing for years.

Originality is exceptionally rare and not always worth pursing for it's own sake. You can still make something worthwhile by putting enough of your own spin on it. There's enough games out there that manage to do just that.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:33 PM    (permalink
fenikz
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It's a thread about games and people were complaining about Nintendo rehasing them
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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It's a thread about games and people were complaining about Nintendo rehasing them
Still, within that context, that doesn't really seem fair or make much sense.

Again, original ideas aren't what we're talking about here. If Nintendo(or anyone) managed to find one of those and more importantly make it work well, we would all benefit for it. The problem is that they're essentially making the same few games over and over again. Established franchises are great, but you've got to offer something different from time to time in order to keep things fresh. Maybe that's coming down the pipe, but we didn't see anything the past few e3's to indicate it.

Granted, they've got it significantly tougher than anyone else considering how much they have to do on their own. I really think the blame for that lies entirely with them though. Beyond even just the hardware end of it, they could be doing what Sony has done and build up a stable of companies that work under and with them to produce content for them. It worked back in the day with Rare. It still works with Monolith and Retro Studios, even. There just isn't enough...and they need companies like that so much more than everyone else.

Getting back to e3 instead of arguments, there's some interesting stuff coming out tonight.



Square's first tech demo for their new engine, which will be used for next-gen systems. I believe that's the first time they've shown any art assets rendered in it, although they may have shown off some lighting stuff last year. It looks pretty damn good. It would have been nice to have seen Square find a way to integrate this into the show instead of showing it behind closed doors and posting it online. It certainly would have made someones presser more interesting.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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The more I watch stuff about The Last of us and Watch Dog the more excited I get those games look amazing.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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I want to try this game out.

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