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Old 06-06-2012, 01:10 AM    (permalink
bantx
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Sony's version of super smash bros awesome. I def want to try that out too.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:37 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by OzTitan View Post
What do you guys think about consoles being threatened by mobile devices in the future? I mean it seems only a matter of time before a mobile device has the hardware capability to do 3D at a level most of the gaming market find acceptable. I imagine investment in mobile hardware going forward is only going to keep increasing so I could see mobile devices catching up to console hardware.

Of course I'm not saying mobile gaming itself will overtake - mobile devices will need to intergrate into the console world i.e. TVs, controllers etc. But that's just a mater of technology moving to allow it. There's nothing fundamentally impossible about a mobile device turning into a static console when you want to play high end games on your TV.

I think the days of specialized console hardware making losses for companies so they can up their profit margins on games is numbered. It was obviously always preferable to avoid having to make hardware and simply leverage existing customer hardware out there, but the only type of hardware that had the right penetration was PC desktops, and these proved too complex and unpredictable for a casual enthusiast gaming market to flourish. Now that everyone in the consuming world is gagging for the latest mobile hardware, perhaps this will change - iOS could be the most prolific gaming platform by 2020 for all things gaming, whether mobile or high end console grade gaming.
I don't think we're there yet. I'm not sure how viable that is either, for a few reasons. Don't get me wrong; the box will die one day and you're right about mobile devices potentially being part of the reason that happens...but there's just a few things that don't quite work with the "plug the phone into the TV and play a high end game" thing quite yet.

My main concern would be how it handles advancement. Mobile phones and tablets work on a similar business model to consoles. The hardware is often sold at a loss, while carriers make it up with your contract. That's the best way for the transaction to work for both sides presently. A $500 dollar up front price tag just isn't as palatable for people as a few hundred with an agreement to pay for a service you are most likely already buying the device to use is. So how is this a problem? The free nature of that market does lead to rapid technological advancement. What happens when those advancements become hardware limitations for the consumer? You end up with fragmentation issues. PC gaming runs into this problem as well...but the solution is simple there. You don't have to buy a new computer every year, you can simply upgrade the parts you need to piece by piece on your own time frame. That's just not how mobile devices work presently and likely isn't coming at anytime in the future. Even that clearly isn't palatable for everyone though, with the model of installed platforms being the industry/consumer standard for the most part. There's security in buying a console. You're buying into a guarantee of software support for that specific hardware configuration for a set amount of time.

The real thing to watch for is services like On Live. I'm not signing it's praises as I prefer more control over things I purchase(as in actually owning them haha)...but the the tech is starting to work. They're still scratching the surface of what it's going to be going forward though...along with just quite what it means. It could have even broader implications than gaming, even...although then we start getting into the separate issue of wireless spectrum and how we're running out of it a little bit.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:17 AM    (permalink
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I haven't had a chance to try any cloud gaming service but I can't imagine it handles any sort of latency too well. It's not offered here in Ausland but does services like OnLive have a sizable user base in the US yet?
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:24 AM    (permalink
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Which again, semantics argument. The Wii U is Nintendo's next-gen console. That doesn't mean it looks like what we should expect next-gen games should. You know exactly what he meant and chose to pick a fight over wording the make the rest of your argument look more convincing. Straw man.
It's a pet peeve of mine when people use next-gen in that incorrect way. Call it what you want, I was correcting him. What you guys(or me) think it should look like is completely irrelevant though.

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Because sales are always such a great barometer of quality with games, books, and basically anything else....which I'm sure you would be willing to point out if it it didn't line up with what you were trying to prove. Commercial success isn't what we're talking about here. Your facts are wrong too. The Xbox 360 recently overtook the Wii as the best selling console world wide. Guess why? For same reason the Wii was so successful. The casual audience.
http://www.edge-online.com/news/xbox...tal-67-million
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library...ales_e1203.pdf
http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/
96 mil for the Wii, 66 for the 360
I'd like to see your link saying 360 surpassed the Wii in total sales. I looked but couldn't find one. Also, I never correlated sales with quality. I was simply pointing out that Nintendo has released a less powerful console with it still doing well. The Wii U doesn't have to do what Microsoft and Sony are doing with their next consoles. I'm in fact happy they don't. Nintendo sets itself apart from the competition.

Actually, me and jvig did touch on commercial success. The argument you decided to join in on, you know.

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Which isn't a great feat considering the hardware was already dated when it launched.
The PS3 and 360 were outdated soon after release, if not at release.

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As far as good games on the Wii, Nintendo hardly put out "tons" of good games. Nintendo is notoriously meticulous with their games, which serves them well as far as quality goes...but doesn't lend itself well to numbers. The release calender the past few years has been basically empty, with Skyward Sword and Xenoblade(which was pretty damn good) being the only real big time titles to make it stateside.
I'd say their list of first party quality games is longer than Microsoft's. Sony had my favorite first party games out of this gen. While tons is an exaggeration, it's isn't as small of a list as people think.

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I don't know how you can deny there's isn't some sort of correlation between the lack of interest in developers who put out big games on other platforms and Nintendo's weak hardware. People get excited by the new possibilities advance hardware bring(and again, we're not just talking about visual acuity), so it's only natural that people will focus their creative energy into those types of opportunities. The argument for Nintendo is always so eager to point out that you can make great games on limited hardware. This is absolutely true. I've played plenty of great indie games over the past few years that probably could have cut it as SNES games....but that's entirely ignoring that you can have it both ways. You can(and plenty of people do)make strong games with the benefits of newer technology. Provided there's a market for that, why not try it that way? Technology is more integral to the progression of this medium than perhaps any other. Just because you don't have to move forward doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it anyway.

Oh, and you can be innovative with a higher polygon count. Innovation isn't exclusively born out of limitation. It might encourage it to an extent, but it isn't a requirement. Not that you've said that yet, but it usually enters the argument at about this point.
I didn't deny it the weak hardware wasn't an issue with the developers, which I'm sure it was. I just don't think it was as big of a deal as you think. Companies program for weak hardware all the time: 3/DS, mobile phones, PSP. Motion controls isn't something that is easily ported. You have to change elements of the game for it to work on the Wii. I think that was a big mistake for Nintendo.

At this point, more advanced cpu/gpu only brings so much. I'm truly excited for the new wii u touchscreen controller. The dynamic and unique gameplay features that the controller can add is amazing.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:25 AM    (permalink
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I haven't had a chance to try any cloud gaming service but I can't imagine it handles any sort of latency too well. It's not offered here in Ausland but does services like OnLive have a sizable user base in the US yet?
The only way On Live will ever be successful is if they eliminate the latency issue. Given the vast majority of internet providers don't provide a service that addresses this and you essentially eliminate a huge part of the market before you've even started.
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:27 AM    (permalink
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I still want a list of original games :'(
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:39 AM    (permalink
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I still want a list of original games :'(
Just go download some XBLA games.
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:44 AM    (permalink
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I DLed Bastion but that's about the only semi original game I've seen
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:59 AM    (permalink
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I DLed Bastion but that's about the only semi original game I've seen
XBLA is filled with amazing, innovative/original games. Braid, Limbo, Splosion Man, Shadow Complex, Fez, Trials and Trenched are just the start. So many awesome games come out on XBLA and nobody takes notice.
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Old 06-06-2012, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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all games ever seem the same to me

GTA 3+/RDR/AC/Saints Row all the same
MW/BO/every FPS
every sports game ever

very rarely do you get a original game
Very true, which is why most game companies do not impress me. That's why I'm not the biggest Blizzard fan. They make high quality games (like Nintendo) but are extremely afraid to go outside their established IPO's because they're afraid they won't be able to live up to the expectations.

That's why I respect companies like BioWare. Sure, they will miss on some of their games (Dragon Age 2 for example) but not only do they create new IPOs but they actually expand themselves beyond simply one genre and IPO. They've started as a pure RPG maker and have now gone on to make a fighting-style RPG, a shooter/RPG, and now a real-time strategy game. That's pretty damn impressive to me.

I wouldn't expect companies NOT to rehash games and in all honesty I was all for a new Starcraft and new Zelda game when they were announced. I want the series I love done at a high quality with new innovation in them. Nintendo has done this fairly well. Does that mean all I want is new Mario and Zelda games? No. Give me something new in addition to that, Nintendo.

That's why I haven't bought Madden in years. It's almost the exact same product (and not even a very good product) so I outright refuse to buy that crap. Now, if they give me amazing gameplay and new features and ideas every year, I'll be cool with that and spend my money every year on it.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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I am beyond excited. Overrun mode looks so awesome too.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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I am beyond excited. Overrun mode looks so awesome too.
OMG Over run is going to be ******* sweet. I mean Beast combined with hoard Its going to be epic.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 06-06-2012, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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OMG Over run is going to be ******* sweet. I mean Beast combined with hoard Its going to be epic.
The class based thing is awesome too. Scout looks so sweet. Climb ledges, semi-auto sniper, snub pistol and something else.
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Old 06-06-2012, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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ZombiU really does look bad ass
http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/06/06...r-demo-e3-2012
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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Sony's version of super smash bros awesome. I def want to try that out too.
Where? What is it called?
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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Is that the WiiU remote for every game or just for ZombieU?
Game and concept look great. Too bad I'll never buy one.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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Is that the WiiU remote for every game or just for ZombieU?
Game and concept look great. Too bad I'll never buy one.
That touchscreen controller is for all WiiU games, assuming the developers use it. 1 per console though. Wiimotes and the nunchuck attachment are still used. There is also a more standard controller with dual sticks.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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That touchscreen controller is for all WiiU games, assuming the developers use it. 1 per console though. Wiimotes and the nunchuck attachment are still used. There is also a more standard controller with dual sticks.

Nah they changed it so that you can use 2 per console.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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Nah they changed it so that you can use 2 per console.
I don't think that's confirmed yet. A Nintendo employee said you can't buy the controller separately.

Ah here's the article I was thinking of:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3...Controller.php
2011 though. I haven't watched Nintendo's full E3 conference yet, however. If it's confirmed now that is awesome.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:41 PM    (permalink
fenikz
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What would be sweet is depending on how heavy it is for some sort of gun attachment, like how he is looking around with the scanner but have it be looking down the sights

And I may have to buy a 3DS, there are at least 10 games I want on it now plus $4 Tetris and **** like that
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Where? What is it called?
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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I like how they don't even hide it, they just blatantly copy SSB.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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Just saw the FF demo and it looks gorgeous. Has me excited.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:22 AM    (permalink
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Unreal Engine 4.

Quite frankly, Watch Dogs kicks the **** out of that.
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Old 06-08-2012, 03:38 AM    (permalink
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I like how they don't even hide it, they just blatantly copy SSB.
Except you can only knock someone off the world with a 'special move'. I'll take SSB every day of the week so far based on the videos.
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