2012 NFLDC Top 10 S - Page 3

bigbluedefense · 06-25-2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

He doesn't blitz at all anymore. He used to be a great blitzer. He used to be great at a lot of things, that's the point. Best all time safety still playing? Of course. But not for just this upcoming year. People seem to get that about Ray Lewis, but somehow not about Reed.

He's still a top 5 guy though. Just for his ability to play deep. There aren't many great safeties in the league.

Jughead10 · 06-25-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

He's still a top 5 guy though. Just for his ability to play deep. There aren't many great safeties in the league.

I still don't agree with that. For this upcoming year I'd rather have Ray Lewis on my team than Reed.

TACKLE · 06-25-2012, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

I disagree, Ed Reed is not very good anymore. He get's the INTs but he better to make up basically for every other aspect of his play. No better than the NFL networks list so far.

Well that simply isn't true. His tackling has gone downhill since his neck injuries but he's still very much elite in coverage. Don't really see how that's disputable. He's just not capable at being as physical but he hasn't really lost a step athletically. I guess some people didn't seem to notice that in AFCCG, Aaron Hernandez (the most athletic TE in the NFL) was picking the Ravens apart for first down after first down in the first half. Second half, Ravens made an adjustment and manned Reed up on Hernandez a lot. He erased him in that half and made Hernandez a non factor.

Jughead10 · 06-25-2012, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

Well that simply isn't true. His tackling has gone downhill since his neck injuries but he's still very much elite in coverage. Don't really see how that's disputable. He's just not capable at being as physical but he hasn't really lost a step athletically. I guess some people didn't seem to notice that in AFCCG, Aaron Hernandez (the most athletic TE in the NFL) was picking the Ravens apart for first down after first down in the first half. Second half, Ravens made an adjustment and manned Reed up on Hernandez a lot. He erased him in that half and made Hernandez a non factor.

Well first of all there basically is no tackling anymore. Everyone in the world knows where he is going to lineup and how he is going to be used on nearly every down. The AFCCG was one of those turn back the clock games for him. I agree with you that he was excellent. By far his best game of the year. But he can't give that to you every week anymore. Not even that close.

VAfy-ya · 06-25-2012, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

There was an article I read on Pro Football Focus regarding Goldson and his desire for a big contract that extensively went into detail regarding his year in 2011. They had him ranked as their 69th best safety in the NFL.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...ashon-goldson/

Yea, that's the one Im referring to. I always get them and Football Outsiders confused.

vidae · 06-25-2012, 02:08 PM

You will all see how great Uric Burry is this year! Keep ******** on him! HE WILL DESTROY YOUR SOULS!

Complex · 06-25-2012, 02:13 PM

When did Aaron Hernandez become the most athletic TE?

Ness · 06-25-2012, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Complex

When did Aaron Hernandez become the most athletic TE?

I don't know. I thought Vernon Davis might take the cake.

"Oh he's a niner fan urrrr...."

VAfy-ya · 06-25-2012, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc

He whiffs a lot more than people realize. I still don't know what he was doing on that A.J. Green TD last year...

ET and Bam Bam are both better.

I don't think Kam is there yet. Thomas no question. But the way PC uses Kam so close to the LOS in their base set, he's liked a extra MIKE most times and that's where he makes alot of his plays....within that 10 yard box. Im not sold on his deep-half abilities just yet.

redbills · 06-25-2012, 02:24 PM

Thought Byrd would crack the top 5 with his way improved run support. At least he made it.

TACKLE · 06-25-2012, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

I don't know. I thought Vernon Davis might take the cake.

"Oh he's a niner fan urrrr...."

If Vernon was anywhere near as fluid as Hernandez, he would have been the best TE in the NFL the past 3-4 years.

Complex · 06-25-2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

If Vernon was anywhere near as fluid as Hernandez, he would have been the best TE in the NFL the past 3-4 years.

Or if he had Tom Brady.

bigbluedefense · 06-25-2012, 02:27 PM

Jimmy Graham is the most athletic TE in the league.

Complex · 06-25-2012, 02:28 PM

The most athletic TE is Jared Cook BTW

gpngc · 06-25-2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

I don't think Kam is there yet. Thomas no question. But the way PC uses Kam so close to the LOS in their base set, he's liked a extra MIKE most times and that's where he makes alot of his plays....within that 10 yard box. Im not sold on his deep-half abilities just yet.

Press man all day with ET roaming outerspace like a true G and Sherman getting in grills like a BAU5.

Jughead10 · 06-25-2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Complex

Or if he had Tom Brady.

Or ever cared. Vernon's problems were always between his ears.

VAfy-ya · 06-25-2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

If Vernon was anywhere near as fluid as Hernandez, he would have been the best TE in the NFL the past 3-4 years.

I get what your saying, but in the offenses he played in, it still would not have mattered because stats rule the day. And he would have never did what Gronk or Granham did this year in the offenses he played in. VD is the most athletic TE in the game though. Maybe not as fluid with his short-area quickness, but his triangle numbers are head and shoulders above everyone else's. If he didnt have such heavy feet and was a natural pass-catcher it would be illegal to put him on the football field because with his blocking, he would be the closest thing to dominat at the position.

Ness · 06-25-2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

If Vernon was anywhere near as fluid as Hernandez, he would have been the best TE in the NFL the past 3-4 years.

Sorry I have a hard time believing Hernandez would have flourished the last three or four years on the 49ers. I'd like to see Vernon Davis the last four years on the Patriots.

bigbluedefense · 06-25-2012, 02:38 PM

Vernon Davis would be awful in New England. They run a choice route offense, Vernon Davis is too stupid to thrive in that system.

VAfy-ya · 06-25-2012, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

Or ever cared. Vernon's problems were always between his ears.

Care to eblaborate?

gpngc · 06-25-2012, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

Care to eblaborate?

Vernon Davis cries a lot. Nothing more needs to be said. He cried at the draft, he cried in the playoffs. He's a CRYBABY.

VAfy-ya · 06-25-2012, 02:48 PM

Where did this whole 'Vernon Davis is stupid' rhetoric come from? He played for Mike Martz, who alos runs a read-option system and there were never any problems with him not knowing the system. Martz couldn't use a TE to save his life so VD was used as a extra blocker or a decoy with his go routes most of the time but Martz never complained about him not grasping the system or its concepts. With all the different OC's he's played for, if VD were stupid we'd know by now. Never heard one OC call him out for not learning the playbook. Running a wrong route here or there, sure....but I contribute that to lack of concentration and focus at times, not smarts.

TACKLE · 06-25-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

Well first of all there basically is no tackling anymore. Everyone in the world knows where he is going to lineup and how he is going to be used on nearly every down.

Meh his tackling is weak but I still trust him as the last line of defense. It isn't pretty but he gets the job done on most occasions. I guess he was moved around less this year (though let's not pretend he was Taylor Mays at USC and played 25 yards deep every snap of every game) but that was just as much a function of Bernard Pollard because Pollard as we know is a pure box SS (and he was actually very good for us in that role) but he doesn't give us the flexibility at safety we once had.

Something I've noticed around here and among "football heads" in general there is a tendency to underrate and undervalue high profile, older players. I think in a way whether people are doing it knowingly or not, because of things like the Top 100, Pro Bowl voting, Madden rankings, media hype, some "football heads" have a tendency to want to devalue those players too much in order to compensate. Just a thought that I think holds relevance with these top 10 lists.

bigbluedefense · 06-25-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

Where did this whole 'Vernon Davis is stupid' rhetoric come from? He played for Mike Martz, who alos runs a read-option system and there were never any problems with him not knowing the system. Martz couldn't use a TE to save his life so VD was used as a extra blocker or a decoy with his go routes most of the time but Martz never complained about him not grasping the system or its concepts.

There's a big difference btw that and what NE runs.

Complex · 06-25-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Vernon Davis would be awful in New England. They run a choice route offense, Vernon Davis is too stupid to thrive in that system.

Yeah and Gronk is genius.