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Old 06-25-2012, 02:57 PM    (permalink
TACKLE
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Originally Posted by Ness View Post
Sorry I have a hard time believing Hernandez would have flourished the last three or four years on the 49ers. I'd like to see Vernon Davis the last four years on the Patriots.
I didn't say Hernandez was better. I said more athletic because he's more fluid. I'm not factoring in size or combine numbers from 6 years ago, just which TE looks the most athletic and dynamic on the field.

But thank you for making yet another thread all about the 49ers. It is definitely not getting old at all in the slightest because you Niner fans rarely do that ever.
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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Care to eblaborate?
I'm not saying he's dumb. He's just a head case. He hasn't been known as a guy to always give a 100% effort. For every great thing he does, he's seemed to follow it with something stupid. Well I guess in that way he is dumb, but it's not a grasping the offense situation.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I'm a little surprised by this list.

I didn't vote, which is my own fault for not logging in, but to me Earl Thomas is the best FS in football, and it's not close right now. Reed and Troy are living off of their reputations right now.

Ed is still great, and top 5 to me, bc his instincts are rare, but Troy really is a shell of himself, and Reed just isn't capable of being as physical as he used to be bc of that neck.

Thomas has the best range out of any FS in the league, he's got great instincts, great playmaking ability, and he just takes away the deep ball all by himself. Good enough in the run game.

Berry is a little overrated. Yes, I think he will be great, but he's not that good yet. He had a solid rookie year and missed all of this season. How is he rated so damn high? We have more questions than answers about Eric Berry.

Eric Weddle is way too high. He's a guy that's good at everything, great at nothing.

And there's no way Byrd and Branch are both better than Kenny and Rolle. Kenny is probably the 2nd best deep FS in the league behind Thomas as far as range is concerned. He lacks great box skills, but in the post, the only FS in the game who's better is Earl Thomas right here right now. Rolle is great in the box and his versatility covering TEs, slot WRs, blitzing and tackling makes him better than Byrd and Branch.

I'm not a huge fan of this list.


I agree with you on Earl at this point. I still think Reed's #2 though. And I'll give you Byrd, but the Giants duo isn't better than Branch.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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I'm not saying he's dumb. He's just a head case. He hasn't been known as a guy to always give a 100% effort. For every great thing he does, he's seemed to follow it with something stupid. Well I guess in that way he is dumb, but it's not a grasping the offense situation.
No one, and I mean NO ONE outworks VD. He's worked tireless on his hands over the years to where they are no longer a issue. He's streamlined his body to become a better pass-catcher. And no one had to motivate him to do it, he did it on his own. There are dozens of articles from Niner beat-writers documenting VD's tireless work ethic and how driven he is to be the best. Don't know how you came to that conclusion but it just isnt true. Maybe because he says outlandish things at times and he isn't afraid to speak his mind. He does say some wild things at times. But he works his ass off(and plays his ass off) so I feel he can say whatever the hell he wants.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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How did this become a thread about TEs?
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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Greg Cosell hates Alex Smith.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by tjsunstein View Post
I was curious to see what everyone thought of Collins on this board for a while but that time has passed.
I would have had him at #2 or 3 (after Reed, ahead of Polamalu, with Thomas gaining pretty rapidly). Collins didn't get as much hype as Woodson and Clay, but you can make a case that he was the best player on the Packers defense.

Regarding Davis, there's just something about him that's missing. Maybe it's the fluidity, like somebody else said. On paper, there's absolutely no way that he shouldn't be straight up dominating the NFL. I don't question his work ethic, his blocking is great, his hands are good, his triangle numbers are farking amazing...

I'm looking forward to the TE thread.

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Old 06-25-2012, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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Greg Cosell hates Alex Smith.
Shame on him for having functioning eyesight and a basic understanding of the game of football!
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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Shame on him for having functioning eyesight and a basic understanding of the game of football!
More like a personal vendetta.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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I agree with you on Earl at this point. I still think Reed's #2 though. And I'll give you Byrd, but the Giants duo isn't better than Branch.
Tyvon Branch is a damn fine football player. Was it last year or the year before that he was voted by the players as the most underrated player in the league? I seem to remember that being sooner rather than later.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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But thank you for making yet another thread all about the 49ers. It is definitely not getting old at all in the slightest because you Niner fans rarely do that ever.
This is why Ness argues in nearly every thread...

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I'm not saying he's dumb. He's just a head case. He hasn't been known as a guy to always give a 100% effort. For every great thing he does, he's seemed to follow it with something stupid. Well I guess in that way he is dumb, but it's not a grasping the offense situation.
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Shame on him for having functioning eyesight and a basic understanding of the game of football!
People just say outright lies and fantastical generalizations in blind criticism of many 49ers players. Good for him for defending his team.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Should I get a youtube video of Singletary's speech? Should I get clips of Harbaugh having to treat Davis like a child on the sideline when he gets a dumb penalty? I can think right away of the one where he scored a TD and jumped on the camera stage. He just doesn't think on the field sometimes. Maybe when I said "or ever cared" was a bit harsh but the guy is a head case.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Vernon Davis would be awful in New England. They run a choice route offense, Vernon Davis is too stupid to thrive in that system.
Right because you know Davis oh so well. This is quite a new low for you BBD. Your posts usually have a decent amount of insight to them.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Should I get a youtube video of Singletary's speech? Should I get clips of Harbaugh having to treat Davis like a child on the sideline when he gets a dumb penalty? I can think right away of the one where he scored a TD and jumped on the camera stage. He just doesn't think on the field sometimes. Maybe when I said "or ever cared" was a bit harsh but the guy is a head case.
Yes please show us where Harbaugh scolded Davis after a penalty. As for the TD celebration Harbaugh was mad at the officials for making that call against Vernon (which he had a good point). He was never mad at Vernon though.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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Yes please show us where Harbaugh scolded Davis after a penalty. As for the TD celebration Harbaugh was mad at the officials for making that call against Vernon (which he had a good point). He was never mad at Vernon though.
I'll try to find it. He didn't scold him, like scream at him. Probably because he has to treat him like a child. It was more you could see him being like good job but please don't do the second part again. I know I mentioned it in a post right after it happened. So I'll look for that post to figure out the game.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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Should I get a youtube video of Singletary's speech? Should I get clips of Harbaugh having to treat Davis like a child on the sideline when he gets a dumb penalty? I can think right away of the one where he scored a TD and jumped on the camera stage. He just doesn't think on the field sometimes. Maybe when I said "or ever cared" was a bit harsh but the guy is a head case.
He had a big problem with focus. It rarely shows itself anymore. The penalty this playoffs was an exception and was pretty ticky tack. Harbaugh actually vehemently argued with the officials after that call. Asking them how it was any different than the Lambeau Leap.

You could get away with saying that Davis is "a head case" and "does dumb things," but you questioned how much he cares and how much effort he gives. His passion, work-ethic, and motor are world-class, so to question them would just be using false pretense to pad your argument.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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Thought Byrd would crack the top 5 with his way improved run support. At least he made it.
It is what it is. It's not an egregious slight, but him being the guy that people have no problem being unjustifiably dismissive of probably has more to do with where he plays than how he plays. A good number of people still have an outdated perception of what his role is, too.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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Yes please show us where Harbaugh scolded Davis after a penalty. As for the TD celebration Harbaugh was mad at the officials for making that call against Vernon (which he had a good point). He was never mad at Vernon though.
NFL network showed it many times.

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Right because you know Davis oh so well. This is quite a new low for you BBD. Your posts usually have a decent amount of insight to them.
Its ok to criticize your players once in awhile. Vernon Davis isn't this invincible human being. Yes, he's a head case, and he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. Doesn't mean he's not a good football player but I don't see how you can argue against that.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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Can't we wait for the TE thread to discuss Davis like this?
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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We should probably do the TE thread next week, since people obviously want to talk about it.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post



Its ok to criticize your players once in awhile. Vernon Davis isn't this invincible human being. Yes, he's a head case, and he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. Doesn't mean he's not a good football player but I don't see how you can argue against that.
I wont continue to hi-jack this thread so Im going say this and be done with it. You keep implying VD is dumb. He's emotional and sometimes on a football field he lets his emotions get the best of him(not so much now but in his first few years, a ton). Your equating emotion with mental apptitude which is, well.....dumb.
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Old 06-25-2012, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Shame on him for having functioning eyesight and a basic understanding of the game of football!
You're right. Cosell is never wrong.

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Originally Posted by TACKLE View Post
I didn't say Hernandez was better. I said more athletic because he's more fluid. I'm not factoring in size or combine numbers from 6 years ago, just which TE looks the most athletic and dynamic on the field.

But thank you for making yet another thread all about the 49ers. It is definitely not getting old at all in the slightest because you Niner fans rarely do that ever.
Sounds like it was more of an implication. Which is fine. And looking more dynamic on the field in a team oriented sport with a lot of variables isn't solely marked up to an individual, in this case the TE. I'm saying that Davis' production could go up if he were playing in a more pass heavy offense with a better quarterback, and Hernandez might not look as dynamic if he were on say, the Browns. That is aside from my belief that as an athlete, he does a good amount of things well at this position. He's big, strong, hard to cover, and is a great blocker. His vertical isn't as nice, and his hands used to be a big concern, but not much anymore.

All I did was say that I believe Vernon took the cake with being arguably the best athletic tight end in the game. I didn't ask for your response to my initial statement regarding that opinion. So you can stop playing the victim card.

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NFL network showed it many times.
Okay I'll just take your word for it? Can you show an article? Something? Anything that implies that Harbaugh has been upset with Davis a good amount of times due to committing penalties. Or even over the TD against the Giants in the NFCCG, where he publicly defending Vernon Davis and that celebration saying it was a terrible call by the officials.

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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Its ok to criticize your players once in awhile. Vernon Davis isn't this invincible human being. Yes, he's a head case, and he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. Doesn't mean he's not a good football player but I don't see how you can argue against that.
I didn't say it wasn't okay to criticize your own players. Trust me, I've done it plenty times here. You can check the 49ers forum on that. It just happens that a lot of what is being thrown around, doesn't really have any substance to it. Like Vernon Davis being a headcase. Yeah he's so hard to deal with as a teammate and his antics are just intolerable. Definitely a distraction to the franchise.

Really, ever since the incident with Singletary four years ago, Davis hasn't been a problem.

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There's a big difference btw that and what NE runs.
Didn't you just say that you watched a game from the 1994 season the other day with the Giants and Cowboys and claimed that a lot of schemes run now and days aren't all the different and when it comes down to it, players just have to execute?
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 06-25-2012, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-...49ers-1st-half

It's in the first 2 minutes after Vernon got a dumb penalty. Harbaugh had to talk to him like he was a child playing football. And this is what I said about it a few days after, so I felt this way the moment it happended.

"After watching this I have less respect for Vernon Davis. He didn't see to give a flying you know what that he cost his team 30 yards. It's all about him. He hasn't changed at all. Selfish. And Harbaugh for all the demonstrative crap he does on the sideline, did absolutely jack **** about it. Either his bark is bigger than his bite, or he knows he's dealing with a moron but deals with it because the rest of his offense are scrubs. He has to talk to Vernon like he's a child."
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-...49ers-1st-half

It's in the first 2 minutes after Vernon got a dumb penalty. Harbaugh had to talk to him like he was a child playing football. And this is what I said about it a few days after, so I felt this way the moment it happended.

"After watching this I have less respect for Vernon Davis. He didn't see to give a flying you know what that he cost his team 30 yards. It's all about him. He hasn't changed at all. Selfish. And Harbaugh for all the demonstrative crap he does on the sideline, did absolutely jack **** about it. Either his bark is bigger than his bite, or he knows he's dealing with a moron but deals with it because the rest of his offense are scrubs. He has to talk to Vernon like he's a child."
Really? That is the best you can do? Harbaugh wasn't even that upset about it. But wait, it has to be by the logic you defined right? Because of this one mistake, he is still a selfish person, hasn't grown in his life as a player, and doesn't care about his team. Forget everything else. A 30 yard penalty changes a man. Yes. And Harbaugh has to talk to him like child. It can't possibly be the notion that Harbaugh was serious about that matter in the game, but decided to not be as enthusiastic. I guess Tony Dungy thought all of his players were moronic people by nature when they committed penalties because of the way he talked, which was quite soft spoken. I guess that means he was talking to all of them like they were children.

"See! See!!! I told you he was selfish!!! Look 30 yard penalty yards! That proves it!!!"
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

Last edited by Ness : 06-25-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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