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Old 07-02-2012, 04:29 PM    (permalink
Bulldogs
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
In which universe is

a fair argument?
I'll give you the Flacco one, that is arguable. I know you of all people wouldn't dare say Tebow is better. Nice that you choose to pick and choose what I said. Your argument is resting on a couple homers on the Official Falcons site which is ridiculous.
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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I'll give you the Flacco one, that is arguable. I know you of all people wouldn't dare say Tebow is better. Nice that you choose to pick and choose what I said. Your argument is resting on a couple homers on the Official Falcons site which is ridiculous.
Well excuse me for pointing out your failure in attempting to come up with one single argument to support your case. Silly me...
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Well excuse me for pointing out your failure in attempting to come up with one single argument to support your case. Silly me...
Read the last page to get my thoughts on the subject, not hard. Moving on then...
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:38 PM    (permalink
Razor
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It's not a big deal, each year there are great players left off the list, while others are over/undervalued. Eli didn't make the list last year either. This year is going to be make or break for Ryan. Either he will prove a ton of people wrong like I think he will, or he will continue to be seen as slightly above-average. He killed it down the stretch this past year after a really slow start.
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Did you seriously quote an article talking about the Atlanta Falcons Message Board? Pretty laughable. Abe has no shot at the HOF, nor did I say he did. You could go to any official message board and get the same garbage from any team. I also think it's pretty unarguable that Ryan is better than Tebow and Flacco at this point, but I've already mentioned this list doesn't really mean anything to me.
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Fact is the AFMB has absolutely zero barring over what fans here think. All fans on official message boards overrate players, guaranteed. That article has zero place in this discussion. I really hope I'm not coming off as an ignorant homer, as I've made some pretty fair, rational arguments. As I said before, this upcoming year is huge for Ryan.
Nice touch to suggest that I haven't read your posts. Classy. My favorite is the first one where you start of insinuating that Ryan is left of the list despite him being great, but then go on to call him slightly above average. Yet he's a far better QB than Flacco. I'm not arguing that Tebow is better because he's not, but Ryan is no Flacco. And Flacco isn't even that good... If your arguments are that official message boards are homers that doesn't change the fact that there are Falcon fans that think Abe is a HoF'er. You and I agree on that point, but that wasn't the case. The case was that you put Ryan in the top 100 where he has no business being, and probably never will have. Now we can move on.
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Tell me, how many PO W's does Ryan have?
Mark Sanchez has more postseason wins than Philip Rivers. Stop using this to evaluate quarterbacks.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Nice touch to suggest that I haven't read your posts. Classy. My favorite is the first one where you start of insinuating that Ryan is left of the list despite him being great, but then go on to call him slightly above average. Yet he's a far better QB than Flacco. I'm not arguing that Tebow is better because he's not, but Ryan is no Flacco. And Flacco isn't even that good... If your arguments are that official message boards are homers that doesn't change the fact that there are Falcon fans that think Abe is a HoF'er. You and I agree on that point, but that wasn't the case. The case was that you put Ryan in the top 100 where he has no business being, and probably never will have. Now we can move on.
He's already been on the list which he apparently has no business being on. I've said it multiple times, I'll repeat again for you. This season will be make or break. He's proven he can do it in the regular season. He doesn't have a problem playing at an above-average level then. For whatever reason, our team, and also Matt Ryan, seem to play at a far lower level in the playoffs. I think that changes this year. I could very well be wrong. Until then, it's tough to say for sure. And yes, I think he's better than Flacco.
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan or Matt Schaub should have made it in place of Tim Tebow.
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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Anybody in the league should have made it in place of Tim Tebow.
Corrections were needed.
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan or Matt Schaub should have made it in place of Tim Tebow.
Matt Ryan, Matt Schaub, Jay Cutler, Andy Dalton, Alex Smith, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Locker, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, Josh Freeman, Carson Palmer, Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez, Matt Cassel, Kyle Orton and every other quarterback in the NFL not named Blaine Gabbert or Curtis Painter deserves it over Tebow.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan, Matt Schaub, Jay Cutler, Andy Dalton, Alex Smith, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Locker, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, Josh Freeman, Carson Palmer, Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez, Matt Cassel, Kyle Orton and every other quarterback in the NFL not named Blaine Gabbert or Curtis Painter deserves it over Tebow.
I wouldn't go that far, but yeah a good amount of those names deserved the nod.
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Yeah Tebow isn't a top 100 player but he is poplar guy and won a lot of games. Players respect him leading that team to a point. Its not like Tebow was a top 30 player or something. He is an anomaly on this list and should be treated as so.

Flacco and Ryan will be forever tied because of the draft. Ryan is probably the better pure QB but Flacco has more success and people judge QBs by wins, especially playoff wins.

Also Flacco is my QB, so FLACCO>>>>>>RYAN
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:35 AM    (permalink
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Mark Sanchez has more postseason wins than Philip Rivers. Stop using this to evaluate quarterbacks.
Mark Sanchez is a great QB according to Rex Ryan.
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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If I'm starting a team tomorrow, I'm going with Rodgers all the way but for my money Brady is the best I've ever seen play. The lack of respect for Brady after he rewrites the record books year in and year out is down right bollocks IMHO.

1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Brees
4. Megatron
5. Revis
6. Ware
7. Nata
8. Fitz
9. Aaron Smith
10. Willis
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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There's no lack of respect for Brady. He's 1 or 2 on 95+% of the lists and the ones he's not he's 3rd. This is for how good they are right now, not career accomplishments. Rodgers over Brady is completely reasonable and not the least bit disrespectful to Brady
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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If I'm starting a team tomorrow, I'm going with Rodgers all the way but for my money Brady is the best I've ever seen play. The lack of respect for Brady after he rewrites the record books year in and year out is down right bollocks IMHO.

1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Brees
4. Megatron
5. Revis
6. Ware
7. Nata
8. Fitz
9. Justin Smith
10. Willis
I can only assume you meant Justin Smith, not Aaron Smith.

Glad to see Ray still up there. I must say that it is incredible the level he is still playing at this late in his career. Sad to see him almost done.

I too am surprised at Flacco's ranking. He never really does anything that overly impresses me to warrant being in that spot.

In just looking at the list, i'm actually surprised Mangold isn't on the list. Can anyone recall where he was ranked last year?
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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In just looking at the list, i'm actually surprised Mangold isn't on the list. Can anyone recall where he was ranked last year?
Mangold was #47 last year. Only 2 centers on the list this year and I think Pouncey just got some popularity to be as high as he was.

Complete sort-able list for positions and stuff. Interesting to see Suggs listed as a LB and Ware as a DE.

http://top100.nfl.com/tracker
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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I disagree with you about Drew Brees. Wasnt Graham the only recieving option for him to ever make a pro bowl? So I dont think you can say he is surrounded with a good supporting cast. 1 super bowl is still fine with him because he was able to rise to the ocassion during that post season and lead his team to the title.
I don't know if Brees has ever had any other receiving option make a Pro Bowl besides Graham. Colston would be the only other receiving option from the Saints that I can think to even contend for a Pro Bowl.

But Brees has been surrounded by a ton of talent on offense. Let's not kid ourselves here. Colston is a very good, reliable WR. Not a great WR or the best in the NFL, but a very solid #1 when you consider their offense, the personnel around him and that system. He's a consistent player with a large catch radius and reliable red zone option. When healthy he's almost guaranteed to grab 70+ passes for 1,100 yards and 8+ TDs.

Jimmy Graham is already an elite player (who was an upgrade over Shockey, a pretty good TE). He has the receiving potential to be the type of player that revolutionizes the position, making what Gonzalez / Gates did look modest.

Darren Sporles is a great receiving option and has been an upgrade over Reggie Bush (for who as much flack as he has deservedly gotten, was a very good option out of the backfield, and one of the best in the NFL while he was in New Orleans). Sproles hasn't made a Pro Bowl, but that's mostly because he doesn't have one single position. He does everything. He just broke the record for all-purpose yards in a single season, which is fairly impressive. 7 TD catches from the RB position and another 2 rushing TDs. Sproles had a major impact on how effective the Saints offense was last year, and a negative impact with how ineffective the usually high powered Charges offense was last year once they lost him. He ranked higher on this list than most probably anticipated, but, if anything, he is still underrated.

Saints obviously have had very good depth at the WR position with Lance Moore, Devery Henderson and Robert Meachem (prior to his departure). All those players were very effective in the vertical system (Henderson + Meachem with speed and Moore with his short yardage ability in the slot). They all compliment the Saints offense. Isolated these three players aren't marquee players, but they are / were very good in the Saints system.

You look at the at the offensive line and Brees has had the two best offensive guards (Evans / Nicks) in the NFL for the last four years. Keeping pressure out of his face / up the middle. Bushrod is coming off a Pro Bowl season at LT (not that I think he deserved it). And they have a stable of very good RBs like Thomas, Sproles, Ivoy who all do different things (running between the tackles, outside the tackles, block, catch passes out of the backfield). Saints have great depth at the skill positions with Sproles and Graham being rare players and Coltson a reliable #1 (Top 10-15 caliber WR in the NFL). Couple with a strong interior offensive line and a good pure RB in Thomas ... that amounts to a pretty devastating offense with an abundance of talent.

The Saints have been one of the most talented teams in the NFL for quite a few years. Brees has a lot to do with it, but he's also benefited from it. I simply don't put him in the same category as Rodgers, Brady or Peyton Manning. I can't really say why, but there's just something about his style of play that doesn't make me group him with the elite. He does throw a lot of interceptions.
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Old 07-21-2012, 07:36 AM    (permalink
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Mangold not making the list was an absolute joke. Hes the best center in the league. Did you see what the Ravens did to the Jets when Mangold didn't play? I thought Sanchez was going to die out there.
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:26 PM    (permalink
The Great Jonathan Vilma
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The Great Jonathan Vilma is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.The Great Jonathan Vilma is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.The Great Jonathan Vilma is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.The Great Jonathan Vilma is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.The Great Jonathan Vilma is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.The Great Jonathan Vilma is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.The Great Jonathan Vilma is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.The Great Jonathan Vilma is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.The Great Jonathan Vilma is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.The Great Jonathan Vilma is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.The Great Jonathan Vilma is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Mangold not making the list was an absolute joke. Hes the best center in the league. Did you see what the Ravens did to the Jets when Mangold didn't play? I thought Sanchez was going to die out there.
I didn't want to be the one to say it, but i thought that was a pretty big miss. I'm sure others have said it, but you can't emphasis enough how much it hurt the Jets when they lost Mangold. The offense was a joke and the line crumbled. I've never seen something like it from an offensive line perspective. Combine that with the fact that Wayne Hunter was already a walking disaster and yes, i am shocked Sanchez survived.
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