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View Poll Results: Is Channing Frye the most influential NBA PLAYER EVER?
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:15 PM    (permalink
Cudders
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
The NBA is a simple sport guys.

If you want to be a true contender, you need to have 1 of the top 7 players in the league on your team. If you don't have that, you're not a true contender.

You can go into the 2nd round of the playoffs, maybe even get lucky and go to the conference finals, but the only true contenders in this league have a top 7 player on their team.

LA - Kobe
Miami - LeBron
OKC - Durant
NYK - Melo
Chicago - Rose
Whoever lands him - Dwight Howard

Everyone else is just a pretender. That's the harsh reality of this league. If you don't have one of those assassins on your roster, you're just a pretender.
Except this isnít totally true.

I can agree with the general premise of it. Without question, basketball is a much simpler sport than football, for example. And, without question, having a star increases a teamís margin for error. With just ten players on the court at any given time, the stars are going to shine brighter and mask more weaknesses.

But the rest is a dramatic oversimplification.

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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Look at Miami. Everyone lol'd about how they have no bench, no center, they don't mesh well and they lack floor spacing.

And what do they do? Go to 2 finals in a row, and win 1. Should have won both if they weren't out of wack mentally last year.

It's all about talent. Star talent. You win in this league with stars. Forget ball movement, forget depth, forget coaching, forget all that ********.

This game is made by stars, and won by stars. That's what it is.

Don't let the basketball purists fool you into believing otherwise. More often than not, the team with the best player on the court will win the game. That's it.

Basketball is a simple sport.
And most of those are valid criticisms. All teams have weaknesses that are exploitable. The Heat are no different, stars or not. LeBron and Wade are the same talent and arenít ideal offensive complements. I donít see how thatís arguable. Now, Miami compensates for it with an explosive transition game and a suffocating perimeter defense and elite individual talent, but those have been and still are legitimate question marks for a star-studded team.

You know what changed for the Heat? Better coaching and better combination play. For the first two years, Spoelstra ran a bunch of pick-and-rolls featuring one of either LeBron and Wade and then someone like Joel Anthony. The problem is that Joel Anthony is a virtually nonexistent offensive threat and defenses would treat him as such. Well, in the playoffs, I finally saw Spoelstra turn to some side pick-and-rolls featuring LeBron AND Wade. Rather than one being ball dominant in isolation and the other being used as a supremely talented decoy, their two most dynamic scorers were involved on the same play. LeBron dropped down to the high- and low-post more often and started the offense there as opposed to pounding the ball from twenty-five feet outside for ten seconds. Not to mention, compared to last season, the ball stopped a whole lot less. More drive-kick-driveís. More swinging the rock from side-to-side to widen driving lanes for cutters and we saw some spectacular halfcourt finishes from LeBron and Wade because of it. Thatís coaching. Thatís floor spacing. Thatís ball movement. And that matters.

Take the Cavs with LeBron. He was the best player in the NBA even then. But it didnít matter because Mike Brown ran such a boring, unimaginative offense and it capped the Cavsí offensive output. Teams just had to contest and defend LeBron in isolation as well as possible. LeBron was enough of a pure talent to elevate above it and make it work for stretches, but it wasnít the most effective or prettiest basketball, and it wound up hamstringing them in seriesí against tough defensive teams.

Look at the Lakers. Under Phil Jackson and the triangle, that offense maintained good floor spacing and peak effectiveness without a lethal sharpshooter. Kobe was the go-to perimeter option, Pauís skill set enabled the offense to flow through the high-post, and Drew handled the block. Each of them got their requisite touches while sharing the ball and their halfcourt offense was one of the best in the NBA. What happened when Mike Brown got there? Kobeís usage rate went up (as he approaches fifty thousand minutes) and his efficiency metrics went down. Pauís high-post game was neglected and he was relegated to a very fancy stretch four. Bynumís touches were inconsistent and he copped an attitude. Overall, their offense sputtered and the Lakers dropped a few pegs while improving on the defensive end and on the glass.

You can have a superstar talent or an All-Star duo or a well-around team, but if you donít use them properly, their misuse is going to show and youíre not enabling them to reach their ceiling together. Thatís where these things matter.

Now, I will agree thereís a certain Ďshot-makingí quality to basketball. During a timeout, your coach can construct the perfect scheme against a player and team, and your defense could execute it to perfection, but it doesnít necessarily mean youíre going to win the possession because the perfect shot makes all of that irrelevant. Against LeBron, you obviously want to keep him out of the paint and force him to take jumpers to beat you. Well, the problem with that is LeBronís mid-range game has come a long way, too. And he was a Ďshot-makerí this postseason. Shane Battier was a Ďshot-makerí in the last couple games against the Celtics and in the Finals.

Thatís where coaching, floor spacing, and ball movement becomes irrelevant. But it doesnít mean we can expect guys to be Ďshot-makersí for forty-eight minutes. Thereís no defense for the perfect pass in football either. Perfect execution doesnít last for sixty minutes though.

And I wonít even broach the subject of Melo as a top seven player.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Kevin Love is a top 5 player.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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wow jkidd what a ahole :c
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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And I'm ******* tired of seeing people say that the heat beat themselves and not the mavs beat them. Get no respect for winning a ship, yes I'm talking to you bbd.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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And I'm ******* tired of seeing people say that the heat beat themselves and not the mavs beat them. Get no respect for winning a ship, yes I'm talking to you bbd.
If you haven't already, watch the clip of Cuban ripping apart Skip Bayless for, among other reasons, this same thing. It's soooo amazing.

Also, I would put Love top 7 just for his interactions/treatment of the Spaniard.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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And I'm ******* tired of seeing people say that the heat beat themselves and not the mavs beat them. Get no respect for winning a ship, yes I'm talking to you bbd.
Completely agree. The Mavs played a BRILLIANT series. Strategically, physically, emotionally. They were just better during that series. Deserved every bit of that title. They made shots. It's always about performance. There's no right answer.

2004 Lakers shouldn't have lost to an Eastern Conference All-Star team and they were just outplayed by a true TEAM Pistons squad. That's why we watch. There's no one answer on how to win.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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Hey BBD, stick to football.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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Or take a time machine back several years ago to when you were a good poster. No idea what happened, but jesus.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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I love Jason Kidd but I don't know if he should be starting for a team that is in need of a star pg. Kidd is pretty limited to only shooting open threes now.

he does play ok defense and an ok passer, but it's just too hard for him to keep up with the westbrooks and kyrie irvings of the world.

I feel bad for the Mavs though, feels like they're not doing anything this year. Poor dirk.

send him to la, we'll take real good care of him.

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Old 07-05-2012, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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The Mavericks are looking real weak going into next year. No Kidd, Terry, and Chandler dating back to last years FA, what is Cuban looking forward to? Theyve missed on trying for Deron and Howard, and the second tier of FA are going elsewhere.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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Guys the Knicks aren't letting Lin go. This move has nothing to do with Lin. Kidd is the backup.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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The Mavericks are looking real weak going into next year. No Kidd, Terry, and Chandler dating back to last years FA, what is Cuban looking forward to? Theyve missed on trying for Deron and Howard, and the second tier of FA are going elsewhere.
Dwight Howard or Bynum next year is probably the plan. Otherwise, what can ya do? Your team runs its course, wins a title, and then things change. Start over somehow. There are a finite number of resources out there that could help Dirk or any team with just a decent roster ascend to real title contention. All you can do is put the best product out there to compete, try to develop young talent and DON'T ruin your cap situation in the process. If you suck, you get a chance at franchise-changing draft picks. That's the nature of this 30-team NBA that would be much better with contraction.

EDIT: And keeping their options open is what they did by letting two older players go rather than signing them to deals that may actually hurt them in a couple of years.

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Old 07-05-2012, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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God Damn Morey. Not only did you did you blew it on keeping Dragic but now you let Lowry go? Dragic is worth 4 year/30 million so I have no clue what the Rockets were thinking not giving him that. SO who the hell do the Rockets have now? Lin???? Yeah ok...Knicks are gonna match any damn offer anyway then who else you got? I have no idea what the Rockets are ******* doing. Howard doesnt want to go to Houston so why even go after him for a one year rental? Ahhh...I remember the good ole days with an injury prone Yao and T-Mac. Even getting them half a season is better then what we have now.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Dwight Howard or Bynum next year is probably the plan. Otherwise, what can ya do? Your team runs its course, wins a title, and then things change. Start over somehow. There are a finite number of resources out there that could help Dirk or any team with just a decent roster ascend to real title contention. All you can do is put the best product out there to compete, try to develop young talent and DON'T ruin your cap situation in the process. If you suck, you get a chance at franchise-changing draft picks. That's the nature of this 30-team NBA that would be much better with contraction.

EDIT: And keeping their options open is what they did by letting two older players go rather than signing them to deals that may actually hurt them in a couple of years.
They could have held onto Tyson last year, and gone for one last title in that sense. Now, they have absolutely no future being that their best players are old as **** (Dirk and Marion are both 34), and they have really shoddy depth. They have painted themselves into a corner, and they're going nowhere fast.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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I don't know what the Hornets are doing by matching Phoenix's offer for Eric Gordon, unless they plan on trading him as soon as they're able. Some Gordon tidbits about the Hornets:

"Phoenix just showed a lot more interest, overall, and definitely in how they negotiated," Gordon said. "I don't know what New Orleans' plans are for me. There are no negotiations right now."

"They drafted another shooting guard, a combo guard like me, which tells me they have another plan," Gordon said. "Phoenix signed two other young guys that are very talented," he said. "They're already established and they're already going to get better."

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/81...rleans-hornets
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Set Gordon Free!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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Dudley, Morris, Fropez, Brooks for him!
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Dudley, Morris, Fropez, Brooks for him!
I wouldn't do any S&T w/ PHX unless Gortat is included. Dudley, Gortat, Marshall + picks.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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Youre clearly out of your damn mind~
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:39 PM    (permalink
fenikz
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hahahahahahha
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:39 PM    (permalink
LTgiants
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Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
Houston has agreed to terms with Jeremy Lin on an offer sheet, source tells Y!
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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Dont even know why the Rockets bother. Knicks are gonna match that ***** no matter how much the Rockets are throwing at him. Pisses me off we didnt use that money on Dragic who I think is a better PG.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:40 PM    (permalink
comahan
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comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Knicks going to be paying him 15 mil in 2014-15!
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:41 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabsoule View Post
I wouldn't do any S&T w/ PHX unless Gortat is included. Dudley, Gortat, Marshall + picks.
I was wondering where stupid trade diab went.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:46 PM    (permalink
diabsoule
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I was wondering where stupid trade diab went.
So, you would trade Gordon for Fropez, Dudley, Brooks, & Morris and zero picks?
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