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Old 07-09-2012, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
I find it very odd that he told us his plan (which I agree isn't a good one at this point) and has said nothing since. I don't think he is mafia one one hand because he is really putting himself out there but on the other hand maybe he is mafia and with so many experienced players he knew we would dismiss the idea of him being mafia because it would be too obvious.
I mean, feasibly his plan COULD work, I commend him for at least taking a hard stance and going with it. However, if a watcher came out, it would be a disaster. A cop/tracker coming out is a high risk/reward scenario.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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I'm here. Didn't even know the game had started, haha. I have some consistent computer access now but it won't be as consistent as I am taking two graduate classes which is fairly time consuming.

That said, I shouldn't have any excuse not to post a bit.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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If you're missing your role, please let IBC and I know.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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I'm here and I've read up on the thread. Here are a few of my thoughts;

Quote:
Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
I kinda have an idea, im not sure if you guys want to try it or not.

Here it goes:

assuming we have a tracker/Watcher/cop. Come out now. BUT dont specify what you are. Dont specify if you are a tracker, a watcher or a cop. Just tell us you have investigative powers. Assuming we have a doctor he will survive day 1.

Now why come out?

Im hoping we can keep mafia on its feet. You will specify your target before going to night. Why would you do that do you say?

A number of reasons: Mafia dont know how to handle your move. If they frame or kill that person but you are a tracker, you will see it. On the other hand if they dont target him, and you are a cop, you get tampered free information, same with tracking someone. Mafia will have to decide if they are willing to waste their abilities or give you untampered information.


I dont know it sounded like a move that one could try?

And yes i know: HE IS TRYING TO GET SOMEONE TO OUT HIMSELF ALREADY.

I dont. Just trying to make a suggestion for a move.
Not a fan of this at all. Just makes huge targets early of power players, it will provide us no direct information because of no role reveals, and even though Renji seems to show how they'll be safe the first night, there are far from guarantees of the same for later nights. All it does is line our most important players one by one to be picked off at choice.

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Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
About your strategy Renji, trying to get the power roles to come out early is usually viewed as a mafia move. But for a mafia member to come out on the first day like that would be a pretty brazen move. I don't know if anyone will come out as a power role, but for now, I think we can trust you.
Not a fan of this at all. I see no reason to presume why we can trust Renji at all. He just asked power roles to reveal themselves without any actual information to even make it worth it. Clearing him in this regard is very suspicious to me.

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Originally Posted by broth223 View Post
What's up peeps! Let's get those corrupt bastards!
I'm actually following Brody's line of thinking, whether he's serious of or not. This reminds me of the ES game where basically every single guild member at one point or another dropped that they wanted to end the tyranny of the guilds, as if saying that made them look neutral.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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The thing is: trackers are hardly a power role.

I really dont see a lot of it going wrong. Even if that person is someone who would usually lay low, getting a protector protect the right people helps a lot more than him randomly protecting people.

Does it paint a target on the person? yes it does. But it would also give us quite a few stuff to work with for at least a few days. Mafia is usually hesitant to try to kill those people unless they are sure they have the protector blocked/killed/have an unblockable kill. I dont see them having an unblockable kill. This would keep the person safe for AT LEAST night 1, if not longer.

Also yes, i did leave the thread cause i was playing Dota2. Sue me!
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigaro View Post

Not a fan of this at all. I see no reason to presume why we can trust Renji at all. He just asked power roles to reveal themselves without any actual information to even make it worth it. Clearing him in this regard is very suspicious to me.

.
I'm not clearing Renji at all. But I feel it would be really stupid for a mafia member to come out with this plan. So for now, I think it's more likely than not that he is good. If info comes out to the contrary, I'll change my tune. But for now, I'm focusing my attention elsewhere.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
The thing is: trackers are hardly a power role.

I really dont see a lot of it going wrong. Even if that person is someone who would usually lay low, getting a protector protect the right people helps a lot more than him randomly protecting people.

Does it paint a target on the person? yes it does. But it would also give us quite a few stuff to work with for at least a few days. Mafia is usually hesitant to try to kill those people unless they are sure they have the protector blocked/killed/have an unblockable kill. I dont see them having an unblockable kill. This would keep the person safe for AT LEAST night 1, if not longer.

Also yes, i did leave the thread cause i was playing Dota2. Sue me!
First, how do we know its a tracker? They can't say they are a tracker, nor can they say they tracked someone. The limit of what they can do is say "I have reason to believe x is evil". Which also if the person lays out their target, whats to say that person will use their power? Mafias can usually get different people to use a kill, so they may just change their killer and not use a power, and now a mafia member has been 'cleared' by this tracker.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
I'm not clearing Renji at all. But I feel it would be really stupid for a mafia member to come out with this plan. So for now, I think it's more likely than not that he is good. If info comes out to the contrary, I'll change my tune. But for now, I'm focusing my attention elsewhere.
But it is clearing Renji. When you come out and say you trust someone, you are effectively clearing them. And I see absolutely no reason to trust Renji, or clear him. Being obvious is no reason not to suspect.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Like i outlined, the thing that helps us really is the versatility since the mafia has no idea what they are dealing with.

Say Shane comes forward and says: I have a power like a watcher/tracker or a cop and i will target Gonzo. What are the options for the mafia?

If they frame gonzo, but shane is a watcher, they will see who the framer is.

if they leave him unframed, Shane will know what allegiance gonzo is. Assuming we have a watcher, he could watch shane to figure out who the protector is, or the roleblocker that i would expect to hit.

There is a number of things that could make this move interesting.

But if you guys feel like it wont work then dont do it.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Cigaro View Post
But it is clearing Renji. When you come out and say you trust someone, you are effectively clearing them. And I see absolutely no reason to trust Renji, or clear him. Being obvious is no reason not to suspect.
I guess we have different definitions of clearing.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Cigaro View Post
But it is clearing Renji. When you come out and say you trust someone, you are effectively clearing them. And I see absolutely no reason to trust Renji, or clear him. Being obvious is no reason not to suspect.
Thinking this might be something to keep an eye on? I'm with jr on the whole "I don't believe that a mafia member would come out with this", but to trust him...not quite there. It is basically asking our most reliable sources of information to, and I quote, "Reveal themselves."

Also, I am gone now for most of the day, am working until 11. I will try to keep track of this on my breaks and lunch.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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It would only out one role. Gives Mafia a lot mroe griefance
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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Vote: No Lynch

I have to be away for a while so I might as well put this out there now. I only have gut feelings at present.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
Like i outlined, the thing that helps us really is the versatility since the mafia has no idea what they are dealing with.

Say Shane comes forward and says: I have a power like a watcher/tracker or a cop and i will target Gonzo. What are the options for the mafia?

If they frame gonzo, but shane is a watcher, they will see who the framer is.

if they leave him unframed, Shane will know what allegiance gonzo is. Assuming we have a watcher, he could watch shane to figure out who the protector is, or the roleblocker that i would expect to hit.

There is a number of things that could make this move interesting.

But if you guys feel like it wont work then dont do it.
The chances of getting usable information against the mafia is extremely low on the first night. And that's the only way I see the plan being worth it. For all we know, "Shane" could be revealing himself in order to target a townie. Now we have an investigator out for little information of worth. And with all roles supposedly now focusing on "Shane" and his target, the mafia is free to roam and pick off people elsewhere, just waiting for the the right time to target "Shane" himself.

If everything went ideally, your plan would have merits. But the chances of that are too low for me to get behind.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Vote: No Lynch

This is the thing I usually promote, I see no reason to change it now. That being said, I don't want to let any inactives off the hook.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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Updated Vote Count:

No Vote (2) - CJ, Cigaro

With 21 alive, 11 are needed for majority.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Cigaro View Post
The chances of getting usable information against the mafia is extremely low on the first night. And that's the only way I see the plan being worth it. For all we know, "Shane" could be revealing himself in order to target a townie. Now we have an investigator out for little information of worth. And with all roles supposedly now focusing on "Shane" and his target, the mafia is free to roam and pick off people elsewhere, just waiting for the the right time to target "Shane" himself.

If everything went ideally, your plan would have merits. But the chances of that are too low for me to get behind.
If I were evil I would be all over coming out as having good powers. Buys a few days of you just being able to say I found nothing, when you feel like you have an idea that someone has a good power just come out and say you found out there are evil, they die, you claim you must have been framed. Waaaaaaay to easy for the strategy to be abused by evil.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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The chances of getting usable information against the mafia is extremely low on the first night. And that's the only way I see the plan being worth it. For all we know, "Shane" could be revealing himself in order to target a townie. Now we have an investigator out for little information of worth. And with all roles supposedly now focusing on "Shane" and his target, the mafia is free to roam and pick off people elsewhere, just waiting for the the right time to target "Shane" himself.

If everything went ideally, your plan would have merits. But the chances of that are too low for me to get behind.
the same thing happens if we dont do it...
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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Out of the inactives CMD I think is the one most likely to rarely post and generally be inactive. Deep is the other guy I am worried about. Hopefully they step up.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Just got caught up on the thread. I'm not a fan of Renji's idea, because of both the potential mod ramifications and the risk of an important person revealing themselves.

And though this may be unfamiliar territory for us, I still don't agree with a no lynch. It is a complete waste of a day.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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Just got caught up on the thread. I'm not a fan of Renji's idea, because of both the potential mod ramifications and the risk of an important person revealing themselves.

And though this may be unfamiliar territory for us, I still don't agree with a no lynch. It is a complete waste of a day.
So throw out some names. Who should we lynch? You can't say that and suggest nothing.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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the same thing happens if we dont do it...
What happens if we don't do it? Shane targets a townie? Yes, but at least "Shane" hasn't needlessly revealed himself.

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Originally Posted by DeepThreat View Post
Just got caught up on the thread. I'm not a fan of Renji's idea, because of both the potential mod ramifications and the risk of an important person revealing themselves.

And though this may be unfamiliar territory for us, I still don't agree with a no lynch. It is a complete waste of a day.
Because today will be so productive otherwise? In every game I've played, this is how the no lynch scenario has worked out; someone has proposed, someone else said it provides no information and everyone agrees with the second person. Come the next day, absolutely nothing about the first day's lynch gets used as evidence, meaning a good person(it has always been a good person in my experience, and numbers indicate that extreme likelihood this game as well) is dead for absolutely no reason.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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I have a suspicion or two, but I think I may have talked myself into think no lynch is in fact the correct move.

Vote: No Lynch
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Updated Vote Count:

No Vote (3) - CJ, Cigaro, JR

With 21 alive, 11 are needed for majority.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Vote: Deep

I am usually for no lynch. What I am against is people not answering my questions and popping in and out, contributing nothing.
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