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Old 07-03-2012, 07:49 AM    (permalink
descendency
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Originally Posted by StickSkills View Post
I wouldn't say Baylor is a small school program.
I could swear when I heard the story it was about a division 2 program, but after reading the wikipedia page on it, it seems you are right about it being Baylor (which is obviously not a smalls school).
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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In no way am I trying to justify it, but I do think the other side of the coins is that it is career suicide in football (or team sports in general) to break ranks and go public with anything negative.
I just saw this post. It reminds me of one of my college sociology classes. My prof had made a career out of studying "whistleblowers." During an interview, he asked one of them why more people don't blow the whistle on corruption. The guy responded: "If you want to be a whistleblower, you'd better have a rich wife."

It's career suicide. Period.
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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Worst fans in the world?

These guys are denialist scum. I hope that most PSU people do not identify with these POSes. You will be sickened if you read this board (That is if you are a decent human being). I can't believe that there is a collection of these people out there that are representing their university like this.

What's really nuts is that there is a PSU BoT guy that is just as crazy and he posts on that board.
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:26 AM    (permalink
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Freeh report is out and it's bad for Paterno and Penn State.
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Freeh report is out and it's bad for Paterno and Penn State.
Here's the report.

PSU needs a clean slate before the authorities do it for them.

Disgusting stuff. If I were in any way associated with PSU, I'd be frothing angry at the administrators and coaches for what went on at the school.

Particularly this quote from the report:

Quote:
Our most saddening and sobering finding is the total disregard for the safety and welfare of Sandusky’s child victims by the most senior leaders at Penn State. The most powerful men at Penn State failed to take any steps for 14 years to protect the children who Sandusky victimized. Messrs. Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley never demonstrated, through actions or words, any concern for the safety and well-being of Sandusky’s victims until after Sandusky’s arrest.
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-A decision by Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley to allow Sandusky to retire in 1999, not as a suspected child predator, but as a valued member of the Penn State football legacy, with future “visibility” at Penn State and ways “to continue to work with young people through Penn State,” essentially granting him license to bring boys to campus facilities for “grooming” as targets for his assaults. Sandusky retained unlimited access to University facilities until November 2011.
-A football program that did not fully participate in, or opted out, of some University programs, including Clery Act compliance. Like the rest of the University, the football program staff had not been trained in their Clery Act responsibilities and most had never heard of the Clery Act.
- A culture of reverence for the football program that is ingrained at all levels of the campus community.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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So is this finally enough for the people that said we had to wait for all the facts? It was pretty obvious the entire time that the most powerful people had to know about this and worked to cover it up. Is this too much for even the most blinded Penn State fans to deny?

I'm not for a death penalty for this, but it's certainly in play. I'd rather see the rest of them in jail and Paterno's statue and name remove from campus. Truly remove any history and influence of these people and move on.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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BWI is still defending Paterno and Co. I'm sure Santonio10 will be here eventually to do the same.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
BWI is still defending Paterno and Co. I'm sure Santonio10 will be here eventually to do the same.
BWI is a cesspool of humanity. I can't believe how insane the vast majority of those people are.

Also, I'm fine with the death penalty. Just give the current players a free pass to transfer. That program and school need to be cleansed immediately. The sooner and harsher the better.

Just look at the rationalization by BWI. Look at the school getting the second most in donations in their history this past year. That is sickening to me as it indicates that those willing to donate are hunkering down and being defensive instead of being proactive and wanting to clean house.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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We'll see. The NCAA will probably punk out and not do anything.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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I've never seen any fan base bury their heads in the sand more than this. There's just no reason to try to even think of ways to deny it. Paterno was involved, so we're many others. Clean house and move on.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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I'm still undecided on the death penalty. I wouldn't be shocked or upset if it happened, but can't say that I'm 100% for it. Actually, if they got the death penalty, I feel like it would just be a huge headache for the Big Ten and other schools on top of an already giant black eye. You just know that other schools and conferences are going to associate this with the entire conference for YEARS.

Also, I enjoyed the letter from Paterno stating this has nothing to do with the football program and how the program shouldn't be punished for it. Yes, because when your school's brass, not to mention the AD and iconic head football coach are a part of a scandal involving a former FOOTBALL coach, it has nothing to do with the football program. It really just adds credence to the belief that he just wanted to protect the program and his legacy.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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Yeah that letter was terrible. I wonder if his son is still going to be out in public defending him saying there was no wrong doing on his part.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by iowatreat54 View Post
I'm still undecided on the death penalty. I wouldn't be shocked or upset if it happened, but can't say that I'm 100% for it. Actually, if they got the death penalty, I feel like it would just be a huge headache for the Big Ten and other schools on top of an already giant black eye. You just know that other schools and conferences are going to associate this with the entire conference for YEARS.

Also, I enjoyed the letter from Paterno stating this has nothing to do with the football program and how the program shouldn't be punished for it. Yes, because when your school's brass, not to mention the AD and iconic head football coach are a part of a scandal involving a former FOOTBALL coach, it has nothing to do with the football program. It really just adds credence to the belief that he just wanted to protect the program and his legacy.
Dude, I respect you, but this is the same kind of mentality that rationalizes away behavior. You've got to step up and take care of business the proper way, damn the pain from the fallout.

JoePa's "letter" kind of cracks me up.

1) Either he wrote it and obviously understood computers and email.
or
2) His son Scott wrote it.

Also, Giants, the Paterno clan was on Good Morning America this morning defending their father. Crazy stuff.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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Yikes really? I know it's their father and all but to come out in publoc and defend him still with everything out there now is insane.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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We'll see. The NCAA will probably punk out and not do anything.
Hey what can I say, I was wrong. He should have done more as I always have said, but he definitely didn't step up when he needed to the most. However, there are more people to blame than Paterno. I know he creates the headlines but the fact is this was Tim Curley's decision. The head of the police must have agreed with Curley's plan, as did the President, Spanier. They are all equal to blame in this situation. It was a horrible sequence of thoughtless decision making. Thankfully none of these men are with the University anymore.

However, the NCAA should have no part in this. It is a criminal case and there is no way they are going to start punishing schools for crimes unrelated to football. Just because Sandusky was a former coach committing a crime on the campus facilities does not make this a football situation. They did not get an advantage on the field because Curley, Schultz, Paterno, Spanier and McQueary handled this situation so horribly. So where does the NCAA draw the line with punishing schools for crimes? Do you really think the NCAA should keep a tally of all crimes that are committed on every single campus and punish school's for that too? They have trouble handling their own rules, there's no way they could handle that too.

There's no way they can give the death penalty. Plus, Penn State has no major violations and it would require at least one other major violation to have a death penalty.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Dude, I respect you, but this is the same kind of mentality that rationalizes away behavior. You've got to step up and take care of business the proper way, damn the pain from the fallout.

JoePa's "letter" kind of cracks me up.

1) Either he wrote it and obviously understood computers and email.
or
2) His son Scott wrote it.

Also, Giants, the Paterno clan was on Good Morning America this morning defending their father. Crazy stuff.
Sorry, I actually went back and added that bolded part right before submitting because I had never thought of it before. If PSU got the death penalty, I had never considered how it would affect the other teams. Didn't mean it as, "they shouldn't do it just because it would hurt us," but more of, "****, those asshats are actually going to make our lives unbearable with like SEC fans."

Obviously it shouldn't factor into any type of punishment, and if it did happen, it would do little in giving back what was taken from the victims and their families. But up until now, I had thought of this only as a PSU thing, was more of what my comments were geared towards.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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But it does affect the football program when if they originally came out with this information and exposed Sandusky, the program likely would have been hurt because of it, either from recruits not wanting to play for PSU/Paterno, high profile teams not wanting to play them in non-conference, bowls not wanting to select them, and hell even donors not giving money (although we see that might not be true), etc.

So you see, the entire cover up does have some direct correlation to advantages PSU gained from not reporting it. There is a clear picture that can be painted that the individuals involved did not let this out because it would have harmed the football program, and in that way did it provide a benefit to the football program.

Just because football players weren't involved or it didn't some how benefit them directly on the field doesn't mean the football program did not benefit from this whole thing, because they likely benefitted the most after Sandusky himself.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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Sorry, I actually went back and added that bolded part right before submitting because I had never thought of it before. If PSU got the death penalty, I had never considered how it would affect the other teams. Didn't mean it as, "they shouldn't do it just because it would hurt us," but more of, "****, those asshats are actually going to make our lives unbearable with like SEC fans."

Obviously it shouldn't factor into any type of punishment, and if it did happen, it would do little in giving back what was taken from the victims and their families. But up until now, I had thought of this only as a PSU thing, was more of what my comments were geared towards.
I figured that it was more stream of conciousness, but it still struck me as not running with your e-Persona.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown View Post
I figured that it was more stream of conciousness, but it still struck me as not running with your e-Persona.
Haha ya, I really don't care what minor issues it causes for the rest of us, but I'll still be pissed at both the jokers that are responsible and the fans of other schools for being ignorant and morons for associating us with this whole thing.

But let's say PSU gets the death penalty, how does that affect the divisions, conference championship, and scheduling? I would bet we do a quick add of like Rutgers or something right after. But that's probably a discussion for another thread and if it actually happens.

The other thing is, as Santonio mentioned, PSU has never had a major violation. On one hand, you would think that's good and may factor into what punishment they get, if any. On the other hand, it kind of makes you wonder if they went this far to cover up this issue, what other minor-in-comparison issues were there that we don't know about...
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowatreat54 View Post
Haha ya, I really don't care what minor issues it causes for the rest of us, but I'll still be pissed at both the jokers that are responsible and the fans of other schools for being ignorant and morons for associating us with this whole thing.

But let's say PSU gets the death penalty, how does that affect the divisions, conference championship, and scheduling? I would bet we do a quick add of like Rutgers or something right after. But that's probably a discussion for another thread and if it actually happens.

The other thing is, as Santonio mentioned, PSU has never had a major violation. On one hand, you would think that's good and may factor into what punishment they get, if any. On the other hand, it kind of makes you wonder if they went this far to cover up this issue, what other minor-in-comparison issues were there that we don't know about...
They've covered up a bunch of stuff. Guarantee it. No major program is clean.

Just look at this from the report. The very definition of LOIC and having the football program cover up incidents.

Quote:
Some individuals interviewed identified the handling of a student disciplinary matetr in 2007 as an example of Paterno's excessive influence at the university. The April 2007 incident involved a fight at an off-campus apartment in which several individuals were severly injured by the Penn State football players. The former University official responsible for the student disciplinary process, who the Special Investigative Counsel interviewed, perceived pressure from the Athletics Department, and particularly the football program, to treat players in ways that would maintain their ability to play sports, including during the 2007 incident. [-] Interview (3-9-12). When the Student Affairs Office ("SAQ") sanctioned the players invoilved, the sanctions were subsequently reduced by Spanier to enable players to participate in football practice. [-] Interview (3-12-12). A senior staff member of the SAQ advised that his office handles over 4,000 cases a year of off-campus student conduct violations. [-] Interview (12-12-11) In all of the cases he has managed over the years, this incident and one other involving a football player were the only incidents in which issued sanctions were reduced. [-] Interview (12-12-11); [-] Interview (3-12-12).
On another thing, there are weird things with how Sandusky was paid by the university upon "retirement". And three years after that.

I would bet a lot of money that the Second Mile was a slush fund for the football program.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowatreat54 View Post
Haha ya, I really don't care what minor issues it causes for the rest of us, but I'll still be pissed at both the jokers that are responsible and the fans of other schools for being ignorant and morons for associating us with this whole thing.

But let's say PSU gets the death penalty, how does that affect the divisions, conference championship, and scheduling? I would bet we do a quick add of like Rutgers or something right after. But that's probably a discussion for another thread and if it actually happens.

The other thing is, as Santonio mentioned, PSU has never had a major violation. On one hand, you would think that's good and may factor into what punishment they get, if any. On the other hand, it kind of makes you wonder if they went this far to cover up this issue, what other minor-in-comparison issues were there that we don't know about...
I sure wouldn't complain.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown View Post
They've covered up a bunch of stuff. Guarantee it. No major program is clean.

Just look at this from the report. The very definition of LOIC and having the football program cover up incidents.
Psh, Iowa hasn't had any major violations, we are poster children for compliance. Sure, we may have a lot of players that get in trouble for drugs and drinking, and there was that whole City Boyz Inc. fiasco (look it up if you don't know), but WE'RE CLEAN.

I should add that in light of the whole PSU thing, I don't want to say Ferentz and his staff up until now were too "good" of people to do anything against the rules, but rather I just think they are too simple minded and possibly naive to even think of it. But I'm sure there are some things that have been covered up, hopefully nothing major.

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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
I sure wouldn't complain.
Neither would I sir, neither would I.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Schiano ran a very clean program. Hardly any incidents under his tenure. He did build the program around the Penn State Model though so I wonder what if anything was covered up here.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Paterno lied in grand jury testimony, convinced them not to go through with plan to report it, and was a keypart in the cover up. Sane people are still defending him?

I don't think I've ever agreed with Mark May before, just shredded Penn State. Nice to see a good portion of the media actually reacting appropriately to this.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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You know it's funny, I'm usually of the mind set that the media will blow things out of proportion or exaggerate small stories to create news. But most of the time, other fans and people will agree they are doing so, and while things may be bad they aren't as bad as the media is portraying, and rag on the media for it.

This is a case where the media is reporting this stuff, and EVERYONE outside of PSU fans (not all of them) agree that it may be as bad or even worse than what's being reported. I can't remember another instance where that's true. I mean, when the entire country is in agreement over something and it's the opposite of your stance, you have to know something is wrong...
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