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Old 07-13-2012, 02:20 PM    (permalink
Smooth Criminal
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"who's going to get a statue? George Wshington did unsavory things."

"add a plague. Compromise or something."

This guy is a real jackass
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Old 07-13-2012, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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You all have to see what they said on outside the lines. Some jackass said this isn't unprecedented and he can't know for certain but

Q: "You know other schools that have allowed rape to happen on their campuses?"

A: "I don't know his for certain but my guess is that you could find similar crimes almost everywhere in the country almost any week of the year."

Holy **** are people ********. That's his defense of not having the death penalty. I can't believe someone even said that.
For some reason, it seems like ESPN is not applying pressure on PSU on this one. Probably some high level PSU execs there or something.

Also, this just happened at Montana.

There is a lot more on that sick stuff on the webs. Basically, the school was trying to suppress the investigation of a gang rape of a woman by some football players. And more sordid stuff. Pretty messed up.

Our educational institutions need a serious reforming process. Sports programs are too powerful on many campuses.
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Old 07-13-2012, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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I can't even type any more quotes. It's some of the most absurd things I've ever heard. He actually said things like this happen everywhere, every week of the year. He actually I'd not to take the statue down, but to add a plaque saying something about this as a compromise. said the report wasn't a legal document and wasn't fact.

I didn't think opinions like that existed.
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Old 07-13-2012, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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For some reason, it seems like ESPN is not applying pressure on PSU on this one. Probably some high level PSU execs there or something.

Also, this just happened at Montana.

There is a lot more on that sick stuff on the webs. Basically, the school was trying to suppress the investigation of a gang rape of a woman by some football players. And more sordid stuff. Pretty messed up.

Our educational institutions need a serious reforming process. Sports programs are too powerful on many campuses.

Notre Dame had that accusation too. But there's been many on ESPN calling of the death penalty and I can tell you that many sports writers in PA are as well. It's crazy to think people are saying things like the statue should stay and we should still celebrate his other things.

This may only be a portion of his career and life, but it's quite enough for me to ignore anything else. Yes, one terrible horrific action against children can completely eliminate anything else you've ever done. I don't care how good.
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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Notre Dame had that accusation too. But there's been many on ESPN calling of the death penalty and I can tell you that many sports writers in PA are as well. It's crazy to think people are saying things like the statue should stay and we should still celebrate his other things.

This may only be a portion of his career and life, but it's quite enough for me to ignore anything else. Yes, one terrible horrific action against children can completely eliminate anything else you've ever done. I don't care how good.
Yeah, and don't think that it was one incident. He covered up at the minimum two incidents since 1998. He knew what a monster Sandusky was and did nothing. That more than erases building a library.

Outside of the victims, I feel really bad for people like TimDris and Grizz and Santonio, Stick Skills and the rest of the sane PSU people.

You have been taught one thing, experienced one thing, and then reality comes and gives you something really nasty. That kind of cognitive dissonance blows.

My PSU friends IRL are having a weird time with it, especially because most of them are big football fans as well.

There is no easy way to resolve this mess for those not directly involved but support and love their school.

I have no idea what I'd feel like if CWRU had a scandal like this.
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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The statue says humanitarian on it even. It's so ridiculous. Definitely has to go. Cant really think of a good argument for keeping it even.
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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The statue says humanitarian on it even. It's so ridiculous. Definitely has to go. Cant really think of a good argument for keeping it even.
Bobby Bowden thinks it should be removed. And it's not because of the hypocrisy of it all.

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"Should his statue be removed? In my opinion, yes," Bowden said. "Now the reason is, Penn State's job now is to try to forget this thing. But every time somebody walks by and sees that statue, they're not going to remember the 80 good years, they're going to remember this thing with (former assistant coach Jerry) Sandusky.
"Just think, every time you go to a ballgame at Penn State and they shine a camera on that statue, that's going to be brought up again. So if I was Penn State, if I was Joe's family, I'd say, 'move on from all that stuff.'"
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Yea I saw that earlier. Plenty of good reasons to remove it and I've yet to hear a good one for keeping it.

Espn is gonna air it like its the statue of Saddam falling.
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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Yea I saw that earlier. Plenty of good reasons to remove it and I've yet to hear a good one for keeping it.

Espn is gonna air it like its the statue of Saddam falling.
If they do that it'll happen in the middle of the night when no one is around.
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--...eh-report.html

There is potential for the university to lose over $100million easily and also lose state funding and have insurance not cover the damages.

Also
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Sports law expert Alan Milstein thinks it's a foregone conclusion the NCAA will get involved. "If Penn State is smart," he said, "they're going to self-punish and eliminate the program for one year to avoid the death penalty."

Others believe that because this is a criminal issue and not a sports concern, the NCAA will avoid interfering. Milstein vehemently disagrees. "This is all about sports," he said. "All about protecting your sports empire."

He predicts Penn State will "shut down" its football program temporarily and allow athletes to transfer without penalty. If that happens, the school obviously would suffer a serious financial hit.

Would all this irreparably damage the university? Probably not, as Penn State's endowment is $1.8 billion. But unfortunately for the school, there's another frightening scenario to think about, and it involves Title IX.

Most of us think of Title IX as federal legislation that ensures gender equality, and that's true. But in a well-argued article for Justia.com last year, Hofstra professor Joanna Grossman and Pittsburgh professor Deborah Brake pointed out "Title IX's ban on sex discrimination clearly encompasses sexual harassment, whether it is opposite-sex or same-sex, and sexual assault and rape each constitute a severe form of sexual harassment, as well as being criminal acts."

The authors cited a 1992 Supreme Court case, Franklin v. Gwinnett County Public Schools, which allows a sexual harassment victim to sue for damages based on Title IX. (It's difficult to argue the Sandusky victims were not harassed.)
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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Wow! Losing state funding would be huge. I hadn't even considered that. It seems like a long shot, but it's an interesting scenario to think about.

That would make an NCAA "Death Penalty" look like small ****.

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Old 07-13-2012, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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Wow! Losing state funding would be huge. I hadn't even considered that. It seems like a long shot, but it's an interesting scenario to think about.

That would make an NCAA "Death Penalty" look like small ****.
Wow that would be huge.
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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I doubt that the Attorney General would ever file charges against them because the leadership has been changed...but they fact that she could should scare the hell out of the university into doing drastic changes.

I still can't believe the recruits who went signed with Penn State this past class...did they not have TVs?
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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I doubt that the Attorney General would ever file charges against them because the leadership has been changed...but they fact that she could should scare the hell out of the university into doing drastic changes.

I still can't believe the recruits who went signed with Penn State this past class...did they not have TVs?
I've wondered that about Bill O'Brien, also. It seems like it could end up being a pretty good way to tank a promising career.

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Old 07-13-2012, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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I doubt that the Attorney General would ever file charges against them because the leadership has been changed...but they fact that she could should scare the hell out of the university into doing drastic changes.
Like becoming an official state institution that is subject to FOIA requests? That would be a great start.

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I still can't believe the recruits who went signed with Penn State this past class...did they not have TVs?
Yeah, I don't get it. And especially weird is WTF haven't recruits been fleeing their current class?
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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time to step up boys



if they dont get the death penalty, im gonna lose my mind
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, and don't think that it was one incident. He covered up at the minimum two incidents since 1998. He knew what a monster Sandusky was and did nothing. That more than erases building a library.

Outside of the victims, I feel really bad for people like TimDris and Grizz and Santonio, Stick Skills and the rest of the sane PSU people.

You have been taught one thing, experienced one thing, and then reality comes and gives you something really nasty. That kind of cognitive dissonance blows.

My PSU friends IRL are having a weird time with it, especially because most of them are big football fans as well.

There is no easy way to resolve this mess for those not directly involved but support and love their school.

I have no idea what I'd feel like if CWRU had a scandal like this.
This is a perfect way to describe it. I've been trying to avoid reading all the articles and stuff. I read the Freeh report and I think I've been mostly in shock ever since. I finally cracked and started reading other stuff tonight and decided to check out the thread and yea...I can't really agree or disagree with anything anyone has said.

At the end of the day I'm still in shock/denial. I can't believe that two men that I've met on multiple occasions and really kinda looked up to (Paterno and Spanier to a lesser extent cause he was kind of a dick) could cover this up like this. I have never been in the Lasch building but I was attending the university while a number of the victims were being victimized. I just don't know how to feel anymore honestly...starting to debate whether I will even use any of my season tickets this year, assuming there is a season...
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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My problem with punishing PSU with a traditional penalty is that the traditional reasoning for punishing someone doesn't apply here.

The people that are responsible are dead, in jail, headed to jail, or long since fired. Basically everyone at PSU is innocent. Punishing them seems unfair.

However, instituting a program takeover (where you put in inspectors that come in weekly or even monthly and check the books from top to bottom) makes way way more sense.

Closing the programs isn't going to fix anything, but doing nothing will mean the parties involved didn't take it serious. The NCAA needs to basically choose the next AD for Penn State. It needs to be an NCAA guy, that reports to the NCAA, and will not put up with the absolute garbage that went on during the past 20 years.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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For some reason, it seems like ESPN is not applying pressure on PSU on this one. Probably some high level PSU execs there or something.

Also, this just happened at Montana.

There is a lot more on that sick stuff on the webs. Basically, the school was trying to suppress the investigation of a gang rape of a woman by some football players. And more sordid stuff. Pretty messed up.

Our educational institutions need a serious reforming process. Sports programs are too powerful on many campuses.
I just saw this post. I was at Eastern Michigan when the Laura Dickinson Murder took place. My apartment balcony overlooked the road that the police and ambulances went roaring down the night that she was found dead in her dorm room. For a month, the school covered up the fact that it was a rape-murder (allegedly, her parents didn't even know what actually happened, beyond the fact that she was dead).

This didn't sit very well with the student body; and particularly the female students, who felt like they should have known that a predator was potentially roaming the campus. A lot of girls transferred after they found out it was a coverup, and I expect PSU to see the same thing happen.

Enrollment at EMU tanked shortly after, but it's hard to say if it was because of the Dickinson rape-murder-coverup, or because the economy just happened to crash shortly thereafter. Probably a little of both.

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Old 07-13-2012, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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My problem with punishing PSU with a traditional penalty is that the traditional reasoning for punishing someone doesn't apply here.

The people that are responsible are dead, in jail, headed to jail, or long since fired. Basically everyone at PSU is innocent. Punishing them seems unfair.

However, instituting a program takeover (where you put in inspectors that come in weekly or even monthly and check the books from top to bottom) makes way way more sense.

Closing the programs isn't going to fix anything, but doing nothing will mean the parties involved didn't take it serious. The NCAA needs to basically choose the next AD for Penn State. It needs to be an NCAA guy, that reports to the NCAA, and will not put up with the absolute garbage that went on during the past 20 years.
alot of the recent penalties handed out by the NCAA affect people that had nothing to do with initial crimes. take USC for instance. lane kiffin wasn't the coach when the reggie bush scandal went down. most of the players that got punished for the crime weren't even in high school when the scandal went down.

story of the NCAA. IMO, it really doesn't have anything to do with what's fair and who's involved. its just the NCAA coming down hard on the institution for making the NCAA look bad. "you fool me once, well **** you" is their motto.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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If they do that it'll happen in the middle of the night when no one is around.
I ws halfway through typing that there no way there won't be film of it, but I'm sure you're right. The way this whole thing has gone down it will just be gone one morning.
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Old 07-13-2012, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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What a fool I was.

In 1986, I spent a week in State College, Pa., researching a 10-page Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year piece on Joe Paterno.

It was supposed to be a secret, but one night the phone in my hotel room rang. It was a Penn State professor, calling out of the blue.

"Are you here to take part in hagiography?" he said.

"What's hagiography?" I asked.

"The study of saints," he said. "You're going to be just like the rest, aren't you? You're going to make Paterno out to be a saint. You don't know him. He'll do anything to win. What you media are doing is dangerous."

Jealous egghead, I figured.

What an idiot I was.Twenty-five years later, when former Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky was accused of a 15-year reign of pedophilia on young boys, I thought Paterno was too old and too addled to understand, too grandfatherly and Catholic to get that Sandusky was committing grisly crimes using Paterno's own football program as bait.
But I was wrong. Paterno knew. He knew all about it. He'd known for years. He knew and he followed it vigilantly.

That's all clear now after Penn State's own investigator, former FBI director Louis Freeh, came out Thursday and hung the whole disgusting canvas on a wall for us. Showed us the emails, read us the interviews, shined a black light on all of the lies they left behind. It cost $6.5 million and took eight months and the truth it uncovered was 100 times uglier than the bills.

Paterno knew about a mother's cry that Sandusky had molested her son in 1998. Later, Paterno lied to a grand jury and said he didn't. Paterno and university president Graham Spanier and vice president Gary Schultz and athletic director Tim Curley all knew what kind of sick coach they had on the payroll in Sandusky. Schultz had pertinent questions. "Is this opening of pandora's box?" he wrote in personal notes on the case. "Other children?" "Sexual improprieties?"

It gets worse. According to Freeh, Spanier, Schultz and Curley were set to call child services on Sandusky in February 2001 until Paterno apparently talked them out of it. Curley wasn't "comfortable" going to child services after that talk with JoePa.

Yeah, that's the most important thing, your comfort.

What'd they do instead? Alerted nobody. Called nobody. And let Sandusky keep leading his horrific tours around campus. "Hey, want to see the showers?" That sentence alone ought to bring down the statue.

What a stooge I was.

I talked about Paterno's "true legacy" in all of this. Here's his true legacy: Paterno let a child molester go when he could've stopped him. He let him go and then lied to cover his sinister tracks. He let a rapist go to save his own recruiting successes and fundraising pitches and big-fish-small-pond hide.

Here's a legacy for you. Paterno's cowardice and ego and fears allowed Sandusky to molest at least eight more boys in the years after that 1998 incident -- Victims 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9 and 10. Just to recap: By not acting, a grown man failed to protect eight boys from years of molestation, abuse and self-loathing, all to save his program the embarrassment. The mother of Victim 1 is "filled with hatred toward Joe Paterno," the victim's lawyer says. "She just hates him, and reviles him." Can you blame her?

What a sap I was.

I hope Penn State loses civil suits until the walls of the accounting office cave in. I hope that Spanier, Schultz and Curley go to prison for perjury. I hope the NCAA gives Penn State the death penalty it most richly deserves. The worst scandal in college football history deserves the worst penalty the NCAA can give. They gave it to SMU for winning without regard for morals. They should give it to Penn State for the same thing. The only difference is, at Penn State they didn't pay for it with Corvettes. They paid for it with lives.

What a chump I was.

I tweeted that, yes, Paterno should be fired, but that he was, overall, "a good and decent man." I was wrong. Good and decent men don't do what Paterno did. Good and decent men protect kids, not rapists. And to think Paterno comes from "father" in Italian.

This throws a can of black paint on anything anybody tells me about Paterno from here on in. "No NCAA violations in all those years." I believe it. He was great at hiding stuff. "He gave $4 million to the library." In exchange for what? "He cared about kids away from the football field." No, he didn't. Not all of them. Not when it really mattered.

What a tool I was.

As Joe Paterno lay dying, I actually felt sorry for him. Little did I know he was taking all of his dirty secrets to the grave. Nine days before he died, he had The Washington Post's Sally Jenkins in his kitchen. He could've admitted it then. Could've tried a simple "I'm sorry." But he didn't. Instead, he just lied deeper. Right to her face. Right to all of our faces.

That professor was right, all those years ago. I was engaging in hagiography. So was that school. So was that town. It was dangerous. Turns out it builds monsters.

Not all of them ended up in prison.
http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8...no-true-legacy
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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Some of the Penn State recruits are terrible with what they were saying. Breneman especially. I just don't get it.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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I get what you are saying, and I agree with the sentiment. But there has to be a reason that these people acted so evilly.

I think it was money and power. And a lot of that money probably had something to do with TSM.

If you read the report, there is a note where Sandusky got an "unusual" payment of $168.5k, and then TSM bought some land from PSU for $168k. That same chunk of land was sold to PSU by TSM for the same price 3 years earlier.

Another interesting article here on how PSU could keep this under wraps for so long; They weren't subject to FOIA laws in Pennsylvania. Even the PSU cops aren't subject to it.

So for those few of you that want to cling to the notion that PSU couldn't suppress an investigation in 1998 into Sandusky and force him to go free, then you are even more wrong. There is no way to get visibility into the cops (barring a state or federal investigation) so who knows why the case was dropped? But since there is no visibility, there is quite a bit of likelihood that PSU forced the issue.

And another note, if Freeh had subpoena power (he didn't), he would have been able to investigate TSM. Legal experts are saying the investigation should have gone back to when TSM was started, back in 1978. He obviously couldn't have done that. Hopefully the Feds will.

I remember when all of this first broke, there was the story about the district attorney who just vanished into thin air. Supposedly all that was found was his vehicle and a computer with the hard drive missing.

Now, ask yourself these two questions:

1) Who the hell has the power to make a DA completely vanish into thin air?

2.) What the hell was on that DA's hard drive that was incriminating enough that he had to disappear along with it?
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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I remember when all of this first broke, there was the story about the district attorney who just vanished into thin air. Supposedly all that was found was his vehicle and a computer with the hard drive missing.

Now, ask yourself these two questions:

1) Who the hell has the power to make a DA completely vanish into thin air?

2.) What the hell was on that DA's hard drive that was incriminating enough that he had to disappear along with it?
Pretty freaky stuff, no?

But I heard that he was also working a mob related drug case around that time as well. Still, it makes one wonder. Hiding a serial child rapist is a pretty evil thing to do. Not too far away from being able to rationalize away a murder. To protect the greater good, you know?

While we are on crazy conspiracies, an early rumor that is still lingering is that Sandusky used the second mile to pimp boys to rich pedos in exchange for donations. Too crazy for me to believe but at this point I guess anything is possible.
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