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Old 07-18-2012, 01:16 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
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It's surprising to me how much fans of their own teams disrespect the RB position.

Forte has been earning this contract since his rookie year. As a fan, I look at new contracts sometimes as being rewards for 'time served'.
None of us are owners or GMs, so why so much sympathy for the guys who cut the checks??

Gonna be some great football played in the NFCN this season.
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Bull. Teams don't pay players for what they HAVE done. They pay the players for what they think the players WILL do for the duration of that contract.

We didn't pay him that freakishly much in the end and it's a relatively shorter deal (4 years compared to the usual 5+ big stars tend to get extended for.)

It'll be nice to have him on the field this year, but I give him 2-3 before he starts his decline. His career touches will hit that threshold when they typically break down by then.

Suggesting that we "disrespect" a player at a fungible position is ludicrous.
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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I said I assess the amount a new contract is worth based on how that player has performed previously. I, as in ME.

NFL players get very little of their contracts guaranteed and are treated like disposable parts. The Bears have an ELITE player at RB and some fans talk about him like he's a JAG.

And YOU didn't pay Forte; the McCaskey's did. They're profiting whether Forte rushes for 1700 yards or he blows out his knee in TC.
I just never understood fans who side with the financial position of ownership.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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As a fan, I look at new contracts sometimes as being rewards for 'time served'.
So if you were GM of the Niners you would Jerry Rice 10 million dollars right now?

I do agree that it is foolish to take the side of ownership in any contract dispute, however. The Bears are going to charge obscene prices no matter what they do so it doesn't help me at all if they are tight with their money.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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Irrelevant. It's the team I follow and they only have so much to spend on their players. I'd rather it be put to better use on other players but whatever. Having Forte for the few years before he breaks down won't be the worst thing ever.
What I said on the first page about it.

I don't care what they spend their millions on not involving the players, but since there is only so much they are allowed to spend on the players, I do care more about how they spend it.

I just don't like the idea of paying running backs more than their rookie contracts. It's just not a position I feel is worthwhile investing in in the modern NFL. The vast majority of the top players at the RB position weren't first round picks. I'd just keep a rotation going of drafting RBs in the 2nd round or later every year, letting then walk at the end of their rookie deal (if I can't trade them before) and insert the next guy. You pay non-first round picks barely more than the league minimum and RB is a position where you can find starter caliber players outside of the first round more easily than any other.

There's always the next Forte. The next Ray Rice. The next Lesean McCoy. The next Jamaal Charles. The next Arian Foster. The next Frank Gore. The next _______ ....the list goes on for a while.

And if they get their knee Adrian Peterson'd, sucks for them. You don't give guys millions of dollars because of how awesome the WERE over the last few years...you only pay them the millions if you think they'll continue to be good for the next few.

Reality is harsh like that but it is what it is.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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you have to look at both sides, time served, and time he will serve.

I'm starting to side more with the players in that, it is a business and you have to do whats best for yourself and get the most out of it. Because these front office people don't care, when it comes time to let you go. Oh remember that time you didn't hold out for more money, or gave us a discount, we'll keep you around 1 more year.

Some players will be treated like kings, because they are the franchise player and have been with the team forever, but most will be a door mat. If there is a younger guy behind you who is cheaper, why not go with that guy. But I hope that young guy gets his money before he is run into the ground.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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The Bears will never spend as much as they possibly could anyway, so I don't know why some Bears fans are worried about that.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I said I assess the amount a new contract is worth based on how that player has performed previously. I, as in ME.

NFL players get very little of their contracts guaranteed and are treated like disposable parts. The Bears have an ELITE player at RB and some fans talk about him like he's a JAG.

And YOU didn't pay Forte; the McCaskey's did. They're profiting whether Forte rushes for 1700 yards or he blows out his knee in TC.
I just never understood fans who side with the financial position of ownership.
I think the issue with most Bears fans isn't with what he just signed. Most people I know have no problem with this contract. The issue was during negotiations, when Forte was asking for 21-22M guaranteed. The Bears reportedly offered him a contract twice, both with slightly less than that guaranteed. Forte then went out to the media to basically say the Bears disrespect him and don't value him.

Again, I am incredibly happy he signed and actually like this contract, but the way he acted like the Bears basically ignored him for 2 years and didn't even try to get a deal done when it was his stubbornness really irritated me as a fan. And this coming from someone who hated JA and loathes the wench McCaskey and her dumbass sons.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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There's always the next Forte. The next Ray Rice. The next Lesean McCoy. The next Jamaal Charles. The next Arian Foster. The next Frank Gore.



True, but not on the same team.
I'm just glad the Bears finally acknowledged that Forte is a rare difference maker in the NFL and paid him as such.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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True, but not on the same team.
I'm just glad the Bears finally acknowledged that Forte is a rare difference maker in the NFL and paid him as such.
You completely missed the point of that then. I'm merely pointing out how so many of the top players at the position from from outside the first round where contracts are dirt cheap.

You can easily have a guy like that for 4 years, run him into the ground in flames, let him walk, and be someone elses multi-million dollar a year walking chronic injury.

It's a position with a short shelf life, frequently suffers injuries and is very easy to replace with someone younger and cheaper. There's not much of a reason to invest in veteran RBs when it's simpler to invest a draft pick in one every other year or so.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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True, but not on the same team.
I'm just glad the Bears finally acknowledged that Forte is a rare difference maker in the NFL and paid him as such.
Agreed, I think he absolutely got a contract he deserved and am glad we can move forward.

Now, if only we could get an OL....
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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But he still has 4 more years of live in him. How many other rbs did you have to go through till you found Forte? And you would probably have had to wait a year or 2 till the new guy really took off.

Barber
T. Jones
Peterson
WOLFE
Benson
Thomas.

Its just like you said, would rather spend money on other positions. Think about it in draft wise, since drafting Forte, which fills a need, you were able to draft other positions. Since drafting Forte, the Bears drafted 1 Rb which was in the supplemental draft.
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Old 07-18-2012, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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^ essentially the case I was going to make.

Yeah, all the stuff about shelf life and late round gems is true, but the chances that you continue to hit on those mid/late round gems and can recycle them every 4 years is pretty low.

All the guys we think of (Rice, Charles, McCoy, Foster, etc.) weren't found by the same teams. I think once you find one of those guys, it's better to re-up them, because there aren't any guarantees that you can/will replace them in a timely manner; and we know how small the windows of opportunity can be in the NFL.

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Old 07-18-2012, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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But he still has 4 more years of live in him. How many other rbs did you have to go through till you found Forte? And you would probably have had to wait a year or 2 till the new guy really took off.

Barber
T. Jones
Peterson
WOLFE
Benson
Thomas.

Its just like you said, would rather spend money on other positions. Think about it in draft wise, since drafting Forte, which fills a need, you were able to draft other positions. Since drafting Forte, the Bears drafted 1 Rb which was in the supplemental draft.
First of all, Anthony Thomas and Thomas Jones were pretty successful as Bears, really Anthony Thomas for a year and Thomas Jones for several years. The other backs you listed never had more than one game as a main back, and Garrett Wolfe never did. Also, Barber was after Forte was drafted. Your point isn't all that valid, they basically went from a productive Thomas Jones to Cedric Benson/Matt Forte.
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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Sorry. From the gap from Benson to Forte, i guess. But how about not drafting anyone since Forte at the Rb position?
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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I understand that this is a Bears themed thread, being about Forte and all, but the meta-argument is still valid. It appears to be pretty difficult for most teams to sustain that type of "one contract and done" arrangement without experiencing a lot of peaks and valleys in your RB production.

If your team values the run game at all, and it's part of your identity, I would think as much stability there as possible would be desirable; even if it means "overpaying" for a guy in his second contract.
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