Penn State Sanctions

[Smooth Criminal]

Originally Posted by sbh15

I almost wish they had put some sort of ban on getting money from bowls and some restriction on BCS bowls rather than not letting them play in them all together. that part of the punishment seems to be worse for the players than any others. it's not like these kids are NFL players and they can just move somewhere new without batting an eyelash (or whatever that saying is) transferring colleges can be a pretty big deal you leave a lot behind

I read the Big Ten was going to donate Penn States share of bowl money to charity. Don't know for how many years.

And transferring colleges is not a big deal. A very large percentage of college kids transfer at some point anyway.

Once again, people are losing sight of who the real victims are. And they are not the Penn State fans, players, or students. They are the children that got raped. I don't feel bad for anyone else.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by WCH

The institution is being punished for institutional failures. If Penn State were a private, for-profit institution, they'd probably be brought to the brink of liquidation after a scandal of this magnitude (see: Arthur Andersen, LLP).

seriously. this. i have no idea why everyone keeps whining about current students/athletes. they can bloody well go elsewhere if they think this hurt their education, or their athletic career. transferring is simply not that difficult, and moreso when the NCAA is making it as easy as possible for current athletes. the entire university ****** up and they can pay the price. no part of me would have mourned at all if their football program had had to be completely disbanded. no part of me would feel any differently if it'd been my alma mater that'd made it as easy as possible for a guy like sandusky to operate.

[Giantsfan1080]

I think the NCAA actually did a really god job of hurting Penn State while keeping collateral damage to a minimum.

A big +1 to what WCH and NJX said also. The players can leave without any penalty.

[Hines]

Wow, other college coaches are outside the university halls stalking and trying to recruit players to their school. They can't step outside without getting hounded. I guess PSU players are locking themselves inside due to that. What a shame.

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by Hines

Wow, other college coaches are outside the university halls stalking and trying to recruit players to their school. They can't step outside without getting hounded. I guess PSU players are locking themselves inside due to that. What a shame.

College football is a ******* dirty, disgusting sport.

I've really eased up on my fandom the past several years. The past two especially so.

[Iamcanadian]

Originally Posted by njx9

seriously. this. i have no idea why everyone keeps whining about current students/athletes. they can bloody well go elsewhere if they think this hurt their education, or their athletic career. transferring is simply not that difficult, and moreso when the NCAA is making it as easy as possible for current athletes. the entire university ****** up and they can pay the price. no part of me would have mourned at all if their football program had had to be completely disbanded. no part of me would feel any differently if it'd been my alma mater that'd made it as easy as possible for a guy like sandusky to operate.

We finally agree on something. Big 10 fan here and I said right from the beginning that Penn St. should be kicked out of the conference for this mess.
It brings shame on every Big 10 institution by keeping them a member of the conference.

[wogitalia]

Originally Posted by njx9

seriously. this. i have no idea why everyone keeps whining about current students/athletes. they can bloody well go elsewhere if they think this hurt their education, or their athletic career. transferring is simply not that difficult, and moreso when the NCAA is making it as easy as possible for current athletes. the entire university ****** up and they can pay the price. no part of me would have mourned at all if their football program had had to be completely disbanded. no part of me would feel any differently if it'd been my alma mater that'd made it as easy as possible for a guy like sandusky to operate.

That's just wrong mate. A very small part of the administration of the university ****** up, everyone else was entirely innocent in this incident. The current players didn't commit the crimes or allow it, the current staff didn't, the current students didn't, the womens volleyball team sure didn't, the vast majority of the alumni played no part in it.

To go back to the original quote that you responded to... had this been the whole Arthur Anderson thing... this punishment is akin to penalising their other clients and the firms that picked up those clients because AA ****** up. Those clients and the firms left picking up the pieces didn't do the crime so punishing them serves no recuperative purpose or do anything but punish people who didn't do the deed.

I'm not saying what happened was right, it obviously wasn't, but targeting everyone who had nothing to do with it and no one that did just seems ridiculous to me. No one being punished by these penalties had any part in the crime.

I don't really have any alternative punishment, it's clearly hard to punish these people who are already all gone, lifetime bans from ever being involved in education/coaching/administration/etc would be a good start, stripping Paterno of wins was fine, forcing the college to set up some kind of charitable institution and fund it would be fine. Costing 10 kids a year a chance to go to college, punishing those already enrolled, punishing the other teams that now have to play PSU and not make as much money, punishing all the other athletic departments that depend on the football program and that type of thing does nothing for the victims, does nothing for those impacted, it does nothing for anyone except punish innocents in my book.

Should all Catholics be stoned to death because a few priests violated some children? Should they all pay and be held responsible for something they had absolutely nothing to do with and knew nothing about?

[njx9]

Originally Posted by wogitalia

That's just wrong mate. A very small part of the administration of the university ****** up, everyone else was entirely innocent in this incident. The current players didn't commit the crimes or allow it, the current staff didn't, the current students didn't, the womens volleyball team sure didn't, the vast majority of the alumni played no part in it.

i fail to see what the women's volleyball team had to do with anything. i fail to see what the current students have to do with anything. none of them were punished in any way whatsoever.

To go back to the original quote that you responded to... had this been the whole Arthur Anderson thing... this punishment is akin to penalising their other clients and the firms that picked up those clients because AA ****** up. Those clients and the firms left picking up the pieces didn't do the crime so punishing them serves no recuperative purpose or do anything but punish people who didn't do the deed.

that's a terrible, bizarre analogy that bears no resemblance whatsoever to what actually happened. the football team was punished. the administration was fined. if the school chooses to pass the monetary punishment to current and future students, those students are fully within their rights to tell their university to piss off. they're not being punished in any way.

I'm not saying what happened was right, it obviously wasn't, but targeting everyone who had nothing to do with it and no one that did just seems ridiculous to me. No one being punished by these penalties had any part in the crime.

how in the hell are they targeting anyone other than the football team? did they also strip academic scholarships from the university? did they fine every student at penn state? are they holding current students hostage?

I don't really have any alternative punishment, it's clearly hard to punish these people who are already all gone, lifetime bans from ever being involved in education/coaching/administration/etc would be a good start, stripping Paterno of wins was fine, forcing the college to set up some kind of charitable institution and fund it would be fine. Costing 10 kids a year a chance to go to college, punishing those already enrolled, punishing the other teams that now have to play PSU and not make as much money, punishing all the other athletic departments that depend on the football program and that type of thing does nothing for the victims, does nothing for those impacted, it does nothing for anyone except punish innocents in my book.

they're not costing them a chance to go to college. every single one of those kids is able to play elsewhere. and as much as i argue for football, how much money ever actually left the program to benefit anything other than the program? i mean, specifically. how many dollars were contributed to any other team on campus, to academic departments, etc.

regardless, it's irrelevant. if my sport gets cut because everyone involved with the football team's administrative side was a worthless piece of ****, i can still go somewhere else. this is not remotely a hardship. this is not remotely punishment.

Should all Catholics be stoned to death because a few priests violated some children? Should they all pay and be held responsible for something they had absolutely nothing to do with and knew nothing about?

absolutely awful analogy that bears no resemblance whatsoever to what's going on. if you wanted a better one, should a particular, single church be temporarily closed, leaving the members free to go elsewhere, after it was found that every person in it's administration conspired to hide a guy like sandusky? how anyone could answer no is unfathomable to me.

[iowatreat54]

Ya, I really fail to see how this punishes current students. Oh no, you basically don't have a football team and the NCAA ruined your "college experience." gtfo

I fail to see how it punishes other PSU sports. Is the athletic dept. going to generate less revenue? Well obviously. Do other sports benefit from that revenue? Of course. But it's not like the NCAA said, "Hey, let's screw over women's softball by punishing the football program," and likewise I would be pissed if they didn't punish the football program just because they make money that supports other programs. That's what you get if your entire athletic dept. relies on football funds, and your football program screws up.

Finally, while I can see how this punishes the innocent players on the team currently, the NCAA gave each and everyone of them free pass to transfer and play at any other school in the entire country, without sitting out a year or any other restrictions, and will let them be on scholarship. Oh no, you have to move to a new school. Do you know how many people in the country wish they had that option? And further, it hurts future kids from receiving an education? Give me a break, that is the worst argument ever. Yes, because those extra 10 scholarships are the ONLY ones being offered to these kids.

[Santonio10]

The NCAA has no right to give out any sanctions in this case. PSU is tryig to play damage control and accepted these sanctions to shut everyone up a little bit. This is not a football issue. This did not give Penn State an advantage on the football field. This is a criminal case that hasn't even finished yet. If the NCAA is now punishing schools for criminal activities, then why hasn't Virginia received any Sanctions for the murder that took place by a lacrosse player? Where do they draw the line?

It took them 4 years to sanction USC but it takes them only a few days to come up with one of the most severe sanctions ever put in place? Not ony are they severe, but they punish the players who weren't even involved? What ever happened to due process in this country?

[iowatreat54]

I used to actually get irritated with the amount of denial you've been in (as well as other PSU fans), but now it's actually becoming quite hilarious the more you talk, kind of like the joke the Paterno family has become.

Keep up the good fight, buddy.

[andyjo672]

Originally Posted by Santonio10

The NCAA has no right to give out any sanctions in this case. PSU is tryig to play damage control and accepted these sanctions to shut everyone up a little bit. This is not a football issue. This did not give Penn State an advantage on the football field. This is a criminal case that hasn't even finished yet. If the NCAA is now punishing schools for criminal activities, then why hasn't Virginia received any Sanctions for the murder that took place by a lacrosse player? Where do they draw the line?

It took them 4 years to sanction USC but it takes them only a few days to come up with one of the most severe sanctions ever put in place? Not ony are they severe, but they punish the players who weren't even involved? What ever happened to due process in this country?

Let me lay it out simply for you because you're clearly delusional. UVA administration didn't actively cover up this crime for OVER A DECADE to ensure the image of their lacrosse team wasn't tainted. Please, stop acting like you're the victim here. Your football team is going to suck, you can deal with that. Jesus, between this and the PSU message boards I'd swear there is something seriously wrong with the water in central PA. Cult's of Personality like this (or see North Korea or Jim Jones) are really, truly terrifying. And if you PSU fans think you're better than those other groups I've got some bad news for you.

[Giantsfan1080]

It's funny that the first smart thing that happened at that campus was the PSU president accepting the sanctions and now the students and a good deal of BoT members are mad at him. The delusion there is sickening.

Also, the due process thing has no bearing on this what so ever. PSU is a member of the NCAA and therefore can withdrawl from that club if they think their rights have been messed with. Due process has nothing to do with this.

[jrdrylie]

Originally Posted by Santonio10

The NCAA has no right to give out any sanctions in this case. PSU is tryig to play damage control and accepted these sanctions to shut everyone up a little bit. This is not a football issue. This did not give Penn State an advantage on the football field. This is a criminal case that hasn't even finished yet. If the NCAA is now punishing schools for criminal activities, then why hasn't Virginia received any Sanctions for the murder that took place by a lacrosse player? Where do they draw the line?

It took them 4 years to sanction USC but it takes them only a few days to come up with one of the most severe sanctions ever put in place? Not ony are they severe, but they punish the players who weren't even involved? What ever happened to due process in this country?

No, they didn't gain an advantage from this. But the cover up did help them. Had this come out right away, it would have hurt recruiting. Covering it up prevented that. So technically it wasn't an advantage, it was more of a prevention of a disadvantage.

And the NCAA definitely had the right to give sanctions. Here are some of the bylaws Penn State violated

For intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education and to promote civility in society, student-athletes, coaches, and all others associated with these athletics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, fairness, civility, honesty and responsibility. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program

Individuals employed by or associated with a member institution to administer, conduct or coach intercollegiate athletics shall act with honesty and sportsmanship at all times so that intercollegiate athletics as a whole, their institutions and they, as individuals, represent the honor and dignity of fair play and the generally recognized high standards associated with wholesome competitive sports.

Individuals employed by or associated with member institutions for the administration, the conduct or the coaching of intercollegiate athletics are, in the final analysis, teachers of young people. Their responsibility is an affirmative one, and they must do more than avoid improper conduct or questionable acts. Their own moral values must be so certain and positive that those younger and more pliable will be influenced by a fine example. Much more is expected of them than of the less critically placed citizen.

[iowatreat54]

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

It's funny that the first smart thing that happened at that campus was the PSU president accepting the sanctions and now the students and a good deal of BoT members are mad at him. The delusion there is sickening.

Also, the due process thing has no bearing on this what so ever. PSU is a member of the NCAA and therefore can withdrawl from that club if they think their rights have been messed with. Due process has nothing to do with this.

Agreed. I actually think Erickson, and O'Brien for that matter, are handling things very well, or as well as they can.

[JoeJoeBrown]

I'm just trying to figure out what Santonio's handle is on the BWI board.

[andyjo672]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown

I'm just trying to figure out what Santonio's handle is on the BWI board.

That board reminds me of a group of overweight women at dinner telling each other how beautiful they all are while complaining that so-and-so celebrity is getting too skinny. Can we see the dessert menu?

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by andyjo672

That board reminds me of a group of overweight women at dinner telling each other how beautiful they all are while complaining that so-and-so celebrity is getting too skinny. Can we see the dessert menu?

On a much smaller scale, BWI is displaying the type of herd mentality that allowed the horrors of Nazism (yes, I invoked Godwin).

The Germans only saw that the Nazis elevated the country out of a severe depression and were able to rationalize away the horrors that were being carried out under their noses.

As a side note, I really want to read Santonio's posts there. Come on Santonio, give us your handle.

[Giantsfan1080]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown

I'm just trying to figure out what Santonio's handle is on the BWI board.

Tom McAndrew?

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Santonio10

What ever happened to due process in this country?

you mean like when they found sandusky guilty? or are you unaware of what due process is, what it means, and why it's utterly meaningless when you're not interacting with the government?

[iowatreat54]

So, I just read this elsewhere, but with all the stories coming out now over other schools' coaches at PSU and what not, one specifically mentioned was Illinois. Apparently there was a blog post or story about it, and one of the comments from the person that wrote it was, "Oh, so now they notice a coach that isn't supposed to be on campus."

Gave me a pretty good laugh for the morning.

[Santonio10]

I don't understand why you guys go to the BWI board when you dont really care anything about PSU or about what really happened there. The NCAA punished PSU for "the atmosphere." one of the punishments was making sure PSU players are keeping up with their academics and are required to report to someone from the NCAA. First of all, why isnt every school forced to do this? Second, PSU had the highest graduation amongst major college football programs and the highest among african American athletes. But yet they need to keep their academics in order? So suddenly the NCAA care about academics? By allowing PSU players to transfer to any school without losing any eligibility they are clearly putting football ahead of academics. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

What metric do you use to measure the atmosphere of a program btw?

[Santonio10]

Originally Posted by njx9

you mean like when they found sandusky guilty? or are you unaware of what due process is, what it means, and why it's utterly meaningless when you're not interacting with the government?

Sandusky got his due process and is rightfully in prison. What about Tim Curley and Gary Schultz? Clearly no one cares about due process for them

[Smooth Criminal]

Originally Posted by andyjo672

That board reminds me of a group of overweight women at dinner telling each other how beautiful they all are while complaining that so-and-so celebrity is getting too skinny. Can we see the dessert menu?

Hahahahahahahahahaha classic

And people go to the board at this point because it's so entertaining.

[iowatreat54]

Originally Posted by Santonio10

I don't understand why you guys go to the BWI board when you dont really care anything about PSU or about what really happened there. The NCAA punished PSU for "the atmosphere." one of the punishments was making sure PSU players are keeping up with their academics and are required to report to someone from the NCAA. First of all, why isnt every school forced to do this? Second, PSU had the highest graduation amongst major college football programs and the highest among african American athletes. But yet they need to keep their academics in order? So suddenly the NCAA care about academics? By allowing PSU players to transfer to any school without losing any eligibility they are clearly putting football ahead of academics. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

What metric do you use to measure the atmosphere of a program btw?

No, it would be hypocritical if the NCAA forced the players to transfer so that they could play meaningful football, or took away their scholarships. It's not like the NCAA said they were doing this all to preserve academic integrity, but then took scholarships away from current players which would prevent them from obtaining an education. Any and all PSU players are allowed to stay on scholarship and receive an education from PSU while continuing to play for the football team. However, if they would like to transfer and still play football somewhere, they are free to do so without penalty.

I think someone needs to learn the definition of hypocritical. It's like the Iowa fans that complain that the school is hypocritical for cracking down on binge drinking and underage drinking, but entered a sponsorship agreement with Budweiser.