Preseason Week 2 Discussion Thread.

[Matthew Jones]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Solder sucks balls. I hated him as a prospect. I was so glad we didn't take him, because I heard the Giants were all hot and bothered for him before the Pats took him.

I'm not surprised he's struggling. I'm never a fan of finesse olinemen. You have to have a little bit of nasty to be an NFL caliber offensive lineman. The cream puffs are nothing more than backups.

I have some concerns about Solder's level of play this preseason, but mostly because he played much better as a rookie last season. He was surprisingly good in 2011.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Razor

I'm pretty sure they weren't from SWDC.

oh, they definitely weren't. but i blame you guys for every crappy pats fan i have to deal with (there are a lot of them). at least i can sort out, by your reaction, whether the person i'm dealing with is a nutcase, or if there's more of a uniform delusion.

[Jvig43]

Yeah Solder did better than I expected him to last year but no way would I say he excelled. He held up, and at times was solid. So far hes looked pretty bad, not as bad as cannon, but bad.

[Don Vito]

We need vollmer to get healthy soon and I don't know if that is close to happening. Mankins is on the right track to coming back but we are going to need waters back too. If vollmer can't come back ready to go and waters doesn't show up, we could have a serious problem moving beyond the preseason. Solder was very raw coming out but I think he will end up ok. The preseason games have been very concerning all across the o line

[AntoinCD]

I don't think the Pats have too many major concerns over the o-line at present. When everyone reports and is healthy it is still a decent line and Brady will make any line look better.

In regards to Solder I agree. I thought the hype and praise he got last year was overblown. He has the ability to dominate but he is frightenenly inconsistent. When he plays with good technique and uses his length well he can hold rushers off and force them to run a wide arc. However when he overextends himself he is vulnerable to being over powered. Likewise when he cheats a little and goes too wide with his kick slide he can't stop inside counters. It was covered up well last year because he was playing beside either Mankins or Waters at different times but it has shown up with a vengeance this preseason and in one on one battles in camp.

As for what BBD said, I agree about finesse linemen, however I think to say he sucks balls is an over exaggeration. You can't learn tempermant. It is something you either have or you don't and ideally you want to be a pretty nasty guy to play in the trenches. However, I think most of his issues are technique related. He needs to trust his natural abilities rather than guess what the rusher is going to do.

Against the Pats it is the inside move that hurts the most. Brady can move up in the pocket as well as any QB. However when pressure comes in his face then it gets worrying.

[Halsey]

Solder is one of those players that many fans are hoping will bust, because they want their prediction to turn out to be accurate. Solder was widely viewed as a workout warrior and overrated. Those fans are more interested in being right than waiting more than one season to make a decision. By the way, Solder played a lot of meaningful snaps for a pretty good team last year.

[jrdrylie]

Russell Wilson is starting for the Seahawks next week. Looks like Flynn is not too impressive thus far.

[K Train]

im loving wilson lately cant wait to watch him play as a starter this week, i never thought flynn was that great....top 5 backup QB and a good guy to have around, but a bottom 10 starting QB

[jrdrylie]

I think in the right offense, Wilson can be successful. He has the tools so if an offensive coordinator can figure out a way to minimize the effects of his lack of height, I think he could be a decent starter.

[Ness]

His height might not turn out to be a problem in terms of seeing down the field. He'll probably get a few more batted balls though.

[PackerLegend]

Originally Posted by Ness

His height might not turn out to be a problem in terms of seeing down the field. He'll probably get a few more batted balls though.

Wisconsin's offense line is bigger then most in the NFL and it wasn't a problem. I watched every game and don't see it being an issue.

[WCH]

Originally Posted by K Train

im loving wilson lately cant wait to watch him play as a starter this week, i never thought flynn was that great....top 5 backup QB and a good guy to have around, but a bottom 10 starting QB

I agree. That's exactly how I feel about Flynn, and I wouldn't be surprised if he ultimately goes back to Green Bay as the long-term backup to Rodgers. I just don't feel like he's a quality starter in the NFL.

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by PackerLegend

Wisconsin's offense line is bigger then most in the NFL and it wasn't a problem. I watched every game and don't see it being an issue.

It's not.

[K Train]

Originally Posted by WCH

I agree. That's exactly how I feel about Flynn, and I wouldn't be surprised if he ultimately goes back to Green Bay as the long-term backup to Rodgers. I just don't feel like he's a quality starter in the NFL.

good for him getting a crack at a starting job, but GB handled it very smart. He would be an asset to them if he eventually returned

[SuperPacker]

Yep i'm a big fan of Russell Wilson. If the season doesn't go as planned for Seattle, I wouldn't be surprised if he's starting by the end of the season. I'd like to see him out there as well.

[jrdrylie]

The videos you posted don't really prove much at all in terms of whether or not his height will be a disadvantage.

Against the Titans he threw the ball 17 times. Half (8) were on roll outs. Of the nine pocket passes, four were dump offs where he didn't need to see over the line. So of his 17 passes, only five were plays where the offensive line comes into play. One was tipped by the defensive line, one was intercepted. His deep ball to Edwards was nice and he did have a nice pass from the pocket over the middle.

Like I said, if he is in the right offense, he can be successful. That offense is going to have to have 75% roll outs. There are two issues with that. First, rolling out basically removes half of the field you can throw to unless they want Wilson throwing across his body to the opposite side of the field Brett Favre style. The second issue is he will be opening himself up to a ton of hits.

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by jrdrylie

Russell Wilson is starting for the Seahawks next week. Looks like Flynn is not too impressive thus far.

First off Wilson starting this week doesn't mean he'll start the opener and second Flynn has been fine this preseason. I'd say he's exactly who they thought he was coming in.

Flynn's major impairment during the exhibition season is he's had to throw to Terrell Owens. Not sure i'd want that dubious distinction.

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by jrdrylie

The videos you posted don't really prove much at all in terms of whether or not his height will be a disadvantage.

Against the Titans he threw the ball 17 times. Half (8) were on roll outs. Of the nine pocket passes, four were dump offs where he didn't need to see over the line. So of his 17 passes, only five were plays where the offensive line comes into play. One was tipped by the defensive line, one was intercepted. His deep ball to Edwards was nice and he did have a nice pass from the pocket over the middle.

Like I said, if he is in the right offense, he can be successful. That offense is going to have to have 75% roll outs. There are two issues with that. First, rolling out basically removes half of the field you can throw to unless they want Wilson throwing across his body to the opposite side of the field Brett Favre style. The second issue is he will be opening himself up to a ton of hits.

Well put, but this looks like the right offense. And honestly, I don't quite understand why some people are so adamant that his height will suddenly become an issue once he's playing with starters. Starters aren't any taller than backups in the NFL. Drew Brees is pretty much exactly the same height. If he starts getting lots of passes batted down, you might make the argument that he's too short, but I just don't get why people continue to insist he's too short when he's not getting passes batted. I think he had one pass batted between those two videos, and it was on a screen play. Tom Brady gets screen passes batted down. Every quarterback in the NFL has had a screen pass get swatted down at the line. As far as rollouts go, his playing style is perfectly suited for that; that's what the Eagles and Saints do - they have their QBs throw from a bunch of different places on the field, and they've been successful doing that. Much closer to Vick than Doug Flutie, except his head's on straight.

[descendency]

I remember criticizing Solder's play last season. He looked like he had no idea what was coming at him last night.

That could be because Logan Mankins wasn't beside him. He was basically the only starter on the OL last night (unless Koppen starts at center). Marcus Cannon looked terrible last night. He simply couldn't get to the outside. His powerful blocking is totally lost as a tackle, because ends just seem to knock him on his butt.

Solder still has serious technical issues to workout. He's no where near ready to be a shutdown blindside tackle and he isn't a RT.

However, it's hard to criticize an OL when the QB behind them is a backup and the WRs he's throwing to are backups as well. There was a lot of plays that could have been executed better last night.

[Jvig43]

Have to disagree, the OL had far more to do with the offense not running so smoothly then Mallet or the Wrs. Not to tsya Mallet played particularly well, but the OL was far and away the biggest issue for the second game straight. It is something we really need to be worried about, especially now that Mario is in the division. Brady is going to get killed if this is a preview of things to come, we really need to hope for no injuries to the O-line. We can't afford it.

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by jrdrylie

The videos you posted don't really prove much at all in terms of whether or not his height will be a disadvantage.

You're right, but Wisconsin's coaches did a ton of research and found that Russell Wilson actually gets his passes deflected very rarely, regardless of his height. I wish I could find the exact numbers but I remember reading that 5"10" Wilson had far fewer passes deflected at the line than 6'7" Brock Osweiler. Wilson just has a knack for finding throwing lanes.

[Cigaro]

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by phlysac

You're right, but Wisconsin's coaches did a ton of research and found that Russell Wilson actually gets his passes deflected very rarely, regardless of his height. I wish I could find the exact numbers but I remember reading that 5"10" Wilson had far fewer passes deflected at the line than 6'7" Brock Osweiler. Wilson just has a knack for finding throwing lanes.

Russell Wilson's release point is arching overhead when he throws, and typically is higher than it is for guys like Romo or Cutler.

Short QBs occasionally find success in the NFL and IMO Wilson is one of those guys whose height isn't going to be a detriment.

I've always said if Russell Wilson had been 6'2, he would have been a top 10 pick and probably be in a Browns uni right now.