Young Guns: Bradford, Stafford, Sanchez, Freeman, Flacco, Ryan - Page 58

armageddon · 07-10-2012, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

Just because you can throw a baseball well doesn't mean you can throw a football well. Doesn't matter how well you believed you pitched in college.

I never said it was well, I said I pitched.

armageddon · 07-10-2012, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bixby

Oh wow, that totally proves that he can escape pressure and hits. Screw the fact that he was the most sacked and hit QB in football, he ran down one of the slowest safeties in the game once with an angle so he must be athletic.

That's all on the QB, huh ? Has nothing to do with a terrible o-line or receivers that can't get separation.

I swear some people only look at stats to evaluate players.

bucfan12 · 08-22-2012, 10:35 PM

Well, bringing this back up again. It's time to discuss the young QBs.

1. Stafford- I think this is the clear choice right now. He's got the elite tools and he seemed to put them together last year as he stayed healthy. If he continues to stay healthy, no one catches him.

2. Flacco- Him and Ryan are neck and neck, but I give the edge to Flacco with his playoff success. He may have his struggles, but he's clutch when needed.

3. Matt Ryan- He's been nothing but successful with the Falcons ever since joining the league, leading them to 3 playoff appearances in 4 years. I think he hit his ceiling though, as he's a Tier 2 type QB that will always be in the discussion "Is he or isn't he Elite".

I decided not to rank the rest but give explanations on each. There are a lot of question marks surrounding them.

- Cam Newton: He had a very good rookie season last year, but it's not fair to rank him with the other 3 just yet. His athleticism helps him out quite a bit and he won't be able to run for 14 tds again as defenses have a year of film on him. This is a year where he will need to progress as a passer. That's the biggest test, but he does have Elite Upside.

- Josh Freeman: After the 2010 season, many had him as hitting into the Elite Category very soon, even higher than Stafford. However, 2011, he hit a wall, but so did the team. He really regressed in terms of Decisions making, reading coverages, and forcing throws that werent there, complete opposite of 2010. So with 1 very good year and 1 bad, it's a toss up. He has the upside to be an Elite QB in this league, but his play on the field is inconsistant. This year will tell us alot.

- Andy Dalton: Had a very solid rookie season as he led the Bengals to a playoff birth. I wasn't a big fan of his coming out, but he did impress me. I think he has the makings to become a very good starting NFL QB in this league, but I just don't see the Elite potential. However, throwing to an Elite WR in Aj Green will help. Lets see how year 2 fairs.

- Blaine Gabbert: He looked very uncomfortable in the pocket last year. However, I did see some improvements during the pre-season that has me more confident in this guy. He's got some nice tools to be successful in this league, but he needs to show improvement this season for the Jags to feel confident going into 2013 as Gabbert being the guy.

- Jake Locker: Not a fan of his coming out and honestly, still haven't seen much that changes my mind. He's got a cannon for an arm and is an athlete, but thats pretty much it. Defenses will force him to be in the pocket and he isn't very accurate making throws on the run. I don't see him being a starting QB in this league.

- Sam Bradford: Again, I thought he was nothing more than a product of the Oklahoma Spread offense. When he went down in 2009 in college, Landry Jones stepped in and produced similar numbers. Bradford to me isn't a starting caliber/Elite QB prospect that warrented the #1 pick. He can be successful as an average starter on VERY < VERY GOOD TEAM. He's smart, but he lacks the accuracy on deeper routes and doesn't have a very strong arm. He hasn't really improved at all and hasnt shown much from year 1 and on.

- Mark Sanchez: Didn't like him coming out either. Thought he was more of a product of the USC talented offense. There is a reason why the coaching staff keeps trying to build a running game is because they cannot rely on him to win them ball games, as he hinders them and is a liabilty. He isn't very accurate, weak arm, and hasn't done much improvement in reading coverages.

The Rookies:
- Andrew Luck: Love this kids upside, but I won't be able to rank him as he hasn't played an actual down in the league yet. But watching the throws he's made, He's going to be a stud in a few years.

- Robert Griffin: Liked what I've seen out of him so far, but he's going to have to answer with his play on the field in games that count that he's not a product of the Baylor Spread.

- Tanehill: He's been solid with what he's had to work with at WR. I think he's got a leg up on his competition because he knows the offense, but I still don't think he's going to live up to the top 10 draft status.

- Brandon Weeden: I honestly don';t know what Cleveland has seen in him that they didnt see in Colt McCoy. Weeden never jumped out at me in terms of making the throws of an NFL Caliber QB. He reminded me so much of a bigger version of Graham Harrell.

Have it folks.

Thecollegedropout · 08-22-2012, 10:38 PM

Just to clarify your thing on Sanchez....

The team wants to ground and pound to win time of poss and because we have pretty brutal WRs. Jets have been a defensive first team so the Jets want to win the field position game and to win the aforementioned time of poss. battle.

Doesn't have to do with Sanchez IMO. He used to fall into that but more and more, they will expand something with him.............IF the O-Line lets the kid get time to breathe....Big if though, especially with that clown Wayne Hunter at RT.

FUNBUNCHER · 08-23-2012, 07:53 AM

Say what you want about Gabbert, but all his physical tools are ELITE. He was basically drafted because of his tools, not his actual game.

In three years the Rams will own the NFCW with Bradford as their QB. Still underrated because of a injury plagued sophomore season.
Bradford = Eli of the Midwest.

Locker may never pass for 4K, but they will say that he 'just winz gamezzzz' for the Titans. Athletically he's almost the exact same player as RGIII.

This is the year Matt Ryan will be recognized as an elite QB. I don't know if he is or not but I think the Falcons are primed for a deep playoff run.

Flacco is overrated. Not bad, not really that good. If he could put all it together the Ravens would have been in the SB the last two seasons.

Weeden will keep the Browns competitive for the next 3-5 years and is an upgrade over McCoy because at least Weeden has an NFL arm.

By week 6, Andrew Luck will be one of the more highly regarded QBs in the entire league and already be called the NFL's rookie of the year.

RGIII is going to have 4 huge upsets this season and push the SKins really close to 8 wins.

I think this is Mark Sanchez' last season as the Jets starter. In the offseason I think they will be actively looking to upgrade the position through a trade or the draft.

Gabbert will show the rest of the league he's a MAN not a mouse and won't cower from defensive pressure. I think he leads a resurgence in Jacksonville, the surprise team in 2012.

SolidGold · 08-23-2012, 08:27 AM

Flacco is an above AVG QB for sure - he has a huge arm - probably only second to Stafford's. He will be Top 10 by the end of this season. The offense is transitioning more and he has more weapons around him than he has in the past. He was working with a bunch of possession WRs before they drafted Torrey Smith.

SolidGold · 08-23-2012, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Well, bringing this back up again. It's time to discuss the young QBs.

1. Stafford- I think this is the clear choice right now. He's got the elite tools and he seemed to put them together last year as he stayed healthy. If he continues to stay healthy, no one catches him.

2. Flacco- Him and Ryan are neck and neck, but I give the edge to Flacco with his playoff success. He may have his struggles, but he's clutch when needed.

3. Matt Ryan- He's been nothing but successful with the Falcons ever since joining the league, leading them to 3 playoff appearances in 4 years. I think he hit his ceiling though, as he's a Tier 2 type QB that will always be in the discussion "Is he or isn't he Elite".

I decided not to rank the rest but give explanations on each. There are a lot of question marks surrounding them.

- Cam Newton: He had a very good rookie season last year, but it's not fair to rank him with the other 3 just yet. His athleticism helps him out quite a bit and he won't be able to run for 14 tds again as defenses have a year of film on him. This is a year where he will need to progress as a passer. That's the biggest test, but he does have Elite Upside.

- Josh Freeman: After the 2010 season, many had him as hitting into the Elite Category very soon, even higher than Stafford. However, 2011, he hit a wall, but so did the team. He really regressed in terms of Decisions making, reading coverages, and forcing throws that werent there, complete opposite of 2010. So with 1 very good year and 1 bad, it's a toss up. He has the upside to be an Elite QB in this league, but his play on the field is inconsistant. This year will tell us alot.

- Andy Dalton: Had a very solid rookie season as he led the Bengals to a playoff birth. I wasn't a big fan of his coming out, but he did impress me. I think he has the makings to become a very good starting NFL QB in this league, but I just don't see the Elite potential. However, throwing to an Elite WR in Aj Green will help. Lets see how year 2 fairs.

- Blaine Gabbert: He looked very uncomfortable in the pocket last year. However, I did see some improvements during the pre-season that has me more confident in this guy. He's got some nice tools to be successful in this league, but he needs to show improvement this season for the Jags to feel confident going into 2013 as Gabbert being the guy.

- Jake Locker: Not a fan of his coming out and honestly, still haven't seen much that changes my mind. He's got a cannon for an arm and is an athlete, but thats pretty much it. Defenses will force him to be in the pocket and he isn't very accurate making throws on the run. I don't see him being a starting QB in this league.

- Sam Bradford: Again, I thought he was nothing more than a product of the Oklahoma Spread offense. When he went down in 2009 in college, Landry Jones stepped in and produced similar numbers. Bradford to me isn't a starting caliber/Elite QB prospect that warrented the #1 pick. He can be successful as an average starter on VERY < VERY GOOD TEAM. He's smart, but he lacks the accuracy on deeper routes and doesn't have a very strong arm. He hasn't really improved at all and hasnt shown much from year 1 and on.

- Mark Sanchez: Didn't like him coming out either. Thought he was more of a product of the USC talented offense. There is a reason why the coaching staff keeps trying to build a running game is because they cannot rely on him to win them ball games, as he hinders them and is a liabilty. He isn't very accurate, weak arm, and hasn't done much improvement in reading coverages.

The Rookies:
- Andrew Luck: Love this kids upside, but I won't be able to rank him as he hasn't played an actual down in the league yet. But watching the throws he's made, He's going to be a stud in a few years.

- Robert Griffin: Liked what I've seen out of him so far, but he's going to have to answer with his play on the field in games that count that he's not a product of the Baylor Spread.

- Tanehill: He's been solid with what he's had to work with at WR. I think he's got a leg up on his competition because he knows the offense, but I still don't think he's going to live up to the top 10 draft status.

- Brandon Weeden: I honestly don';t know what Cleveland has seen in him that they didnt see in Colt McCoy. Weeden never jumped out at me in terms of making the throws of an NFL Caliber QB. He reminded me so much of a bigger version of Graham Harrell.

Have it folks.

Pretty good list - Josh Freeman has alot to prove - he had a terrible year last year. I agree with you on Flacco. It will be interesting to see if the Jets end up being terrible this year and decide to go with Barkley/Tyler Wilson. On a side note they should just put Tebow in at RB - he looks alot more explosive as a runner this season.

bucfan12 · 08-23-2012, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold

Pretty good list - Josh Freeman has alot to prove - he had a terrible year last year. I agree with you on Flacco. It will be interesting to see if the Jets end up being terrible this year and decide to go with Barkley/Tyler Wilson. On a side note they should just put Tebow in at RB - he looks alot more explosive as a runner this season.

Yes. With next years class of qbs pretty strong this is definately a make or break year for Freeman. Especially since schiano has no ties to him.

I do like Tyler Wilson a lot. Been watching his game tape and came away impressed. Reminds me of Aaron Rodgers but more athletic.

NY+Giants=NYG · 08-23-2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

In three years the Rams will own the NFCW with Bradford as their QB. Still underrated because of a injury plagued sophomore season.
Bradford = Eli of the Midwest.

Just out of curiosity, how is Bradford, Eli of the Midwest?

LonghornsLegend · 08-23-2012, 11:06 AM

That comment on Bradford is laughable. They are going to regret not taking RGIII halfway through this season, and with as many picks as they have it won't make up for not having an elite player at the QB position.

K Train · 08-23-2012, 11:17 AM

i really thought they should have traded bradford to the browns and took RG3, time will tell i guess

Dallas357 · 08-23-2012, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Well, bringing this back up again. It's time to discuss the young QBs.

1. Stafford- I think this is the clear choice right now. He's got the elite tools and he seemed to put them together last year as he stayed healthy. If he continues to stay healthy, no one catches him.

2. Flacco- Him and Ryan are neck and neck, but I give the edge to Flacco with his playoff success. He may have his struggles, but he's clutch when needed.

3. Matt Ryan- He's been nothing but successful with the Falcons ever since joining the league, leading them to 3 playoff appearances in 4 years. I think he hit his ceiling though, as he's a Tier 2 type QB that will always be in the discussion "Is he or isn't he Elite".

I decided not to rank the rest but give explanations on each. There are a lot of question marks surrounding them.

- Cam Newton: He had a very good rookie season last year, but it's not fair to rank him with the other 3 just yet. His athleticism helps him out quite a bit and he won't be able to run for 14 tds again as defenses have a year of film on him. This is a year where he will need to progress as a passer. That's the biggest test, but he does have Elite Upside.

- Josh Freeman: After the 2010 season, many had him as hitting into the Elite Category very soon, even higher than Stafford. However, 2011, he hit a wall, but so did the team. He really regressed in terms of Decisions making, reading coverages, and forcing throws that werent there, complete opposite of 2010. So with 1 very good year and 1 bad, it's a toss up. He has the upside to be an Elite QB in this league, but his play on the field is inconsistant. This year will tell us alot.

- Andy Dalton: Had a very solid rookie season as he led the Bengals to a playoff birth. I wasn't a big fan of his coming out, but he did impress me. I think he has the makings to become a very good starting NFL QB in this league, but I just don't see the Elite potential. However, throwing to an Elite WR in Aj Green will help. Lets see how year 2 fairs.

- Blaine Gabbert: He looked very uncomfortable in the pocket last year. However, I did see some improvements during the pre-season that has me more confident in this guy. He's got some nice tools to be successful in this league, but he needs to show improvement this season for the Jags to feel confident going into 2013 as Gabbert being the guy.

- Jake Locker: Not a fan of his coming out and honestly, still haven't seen much that changes my mind. He's got a cannon for an arm and is an athlete, but thats pretty much it. Defenses will force him to be in the pocket and he isn't very accurate making throws on the run. I don't see him being a starting QB in this league.

- Sam Bradford: Again, I thought he was nothing more than a product of the Oklahoma Spread offense. When he went down in 2009 in college, Landry Jones stepped in and produced similar numbers. Bradford to me isn't a starting caliber/Elite QB prospect that warrented the #1 pick. He can be successful as an average starter on VERY < VERY GOOD TEAM. He's smart, but he lacks the accuracy on deeper routes and doesn't have a very strong arm. He hasn't really improved at all and hasnt shown much from year 1 and on.

- Mark Sanchez: Didn't like him coming out either. Thought he was more of a product of the USC talented offense. There is a reason why the coaching staff keeps trying to build a running game is because they cannot rely on him to win them ball games, as he hinders them and is a liabilty. He isn't very accurate, weak arm, and hasn't done much improvement in reading coverages.

The Rookies:
- Andrew Luck: Love this kids upside, but I won't be able to rank him as he hasn't played an actual down in the league yet. But watching the throws he's made, He's going to be a stud in a few years.

- Robert Griffin: Liked what I've seen out of him so far, but he's going to have to answer with his play on the field in games that count that he's not a product of the Baylor Spread.

- Tanehill: He's been solid with what he's had to work with at WR. I think he's got a leg up on his competition because he knows the offense, but I still don't think he's going to live up to the top 10 draft status.

- Brandon Weeden: I honestly don';t know what Cleveland has seen in him that they didnt see in Colt McCoy. Weeden never jumped out at me in terms of making the throws of an NFL Caliber QB. He reminded me so much of a bigger version of Graham Harrell.

Have it folks.

Good post.

FUNBUNCHER · 08-23-2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG

Just out of curiosity, how is Bradford, Eli of the Midwest?

LOL. They remind me of each other toolwise and demeanor. IMO all he needs to do is stay healthy.

SolidGold · 08-23-2012, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

That comment on Bradford is laughable. They are going to regret not taking RGIII halfway through this season, and with as many picks as they have it won't make up for not having an elite player at the QB position.

Griffin hasn't played a down of regular season football. He isn't comfortable in the pocket yet either - I would have kept Bradford and built around his solid rookie season rather than risk it on Griffin even though all the media pundits have been hyping him up since last winter.

FUNBUNCHER · 08-23-2012, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold

Griffin hasn't played a down of regular season football. He isn't comfortable in the pocket yet either - I would have kept Bradford and built around his solid rookie season rather than risk it on Griffin even though all the media pundits have been hyping him up since last winter.

RGIII isn't comfortable taking seven step drops with Julius Peppers in his face.
A clean pocket?? Griffin is grooving.
But yeah I still think Bradford is a player.

NY+Giants=NYG · 08-23-2012, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

LOL. They remind me of each other toolwise and demeanor. IMO all he needs to do is stay healthy.

Here in NJ, don't really see the Rams, so I wouldn't know. Is he really cool, calm and collective as a QB? He does have to stay healthy, and I am interested to see how he does.

ATLDirtyBirds · 08-23-2012, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG

Here in NJ, don't really see the Rams, so I wouldn't know. Is he really cool, calm and collective as a QB? .

No. He looks more like Carr than Eli at this point. Still shell shocked it seems.

bigbluedefense · 08-23-2012, 09:00 PM

I still have faith in Bradford.

armageddon · 08-24-2012, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLDirtyBirds

No. He looks more like Carr than Eli at this point. Still shell shocked it seems.

You are referring to last years Josh McDaniels idiotic 7 step drop passes with a horrible o-line and terrible receivers. So far this year, Bradford is back to playing like the rookie of the year QB. He has been deadly accurate, poised, and throwing lasers. Whoever said he doesn't have a strong arm is clueless.

LonghornsLegend · 08-24-2012, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armageddon

You are referring to last years Josh McDaniels idiotic 7 step drop passes with a horrible o-line and terrible receivers. So far this year, Bradford is back to playing like the rookie of the year QB. He has been deadly accurate, poised, and throwing lasers. Whoever said he doesn't have a strong arm is clueless.

Yea, let's just erase the entire 16 games of last year, because a few quarters of pre-season is obviously more important. Nothing has changed with Bradford because I had those same concerns about him at OU, but that massive and talented o-line masked a bunch of those concerns. That trait that say, Jay Cutler has, where you can step up into the pocket in the face of pressure, put the ball on a rope and fling it, then take the hit? Bradford doesn't have that quality, and I don't think he ever will.

I'll be anxious to see how he looks this year, but let's pump the brakes. He's done very little thus far to be trying to erase an entire 16 games of regular season footage and replace that with a couple pre-season quarters. But then again it's not surprising to have this conversation with you either. At least you can't say him not having weapons is a problem anymore because listening to you describe the passing attack you would think it's the greatest show on turf pt 2.

K Train · 08-24-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armageddon

You are referring to last years Josh McDaniels idiotic 7 step drop passes with a horrible o-line and terrible receivers. So far this year, Bradford is back to playing like the rookie of the year QB. He has been deadly accurate, poised, and throwing lasers. Whoever said he doesn't have a strong arm is clueless.

he has a good enough arm..."strong" isnt what i would call it though.

Rosebud · 08-24-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K Train

he has a good enough arm..."strong" isnt what i would call it though.

It's more than good enough. Fitzmagic has a good enough arm. Bradford has a good arm.

armageddon · 08-24-2012, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Yea, let's just erase the entire 16 games of last year, because a few quarters of pre-season is obviously more important. Nothing has changed with Bradford because I had those same concerns about him at OU, but that massive and talented o-line masked a bunch of those concerns. That trait that say, Jay Cutler has, where you can step up into the pocket in the face of pressure, put the ball on a rope and fling it, then take the hit? Bradford doesn't have that quality, and I don't think he ever will.

I'll be anxious to see how he looks this year, but let's pump the brakes. He's done very little thus far to be trying to erase an entire 16 games of regular season footage and replace that with a couple pre-season quarters. But then again it's not surprising to have this conversation with you either. At least you can't say him not having weapons is a problem anymore because listening to you describe the passing attack you would think it's the greatest show on turf pt 2.

You're just being silly now

armageddon · 08-24-2012, 03:02 PM

Here are all of Bradford's throws over 15 yards last year. Looks pretty damn good to me. Remember, he also had the dreaded high ankle sprain around week 6 if I remember correctly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhLDkYravNA

Notice the amount of drops from perfectly thrown balls.

niel89 · 08-24-2012, 03:21 PM

We shouldn't write off Bradford as a player. He has only 2 season under his belt with crap around him. His rookie year was supremely overrated though. I think that Bradford will be a good to great QB when he gets a team around him, but I'm not sure that he will ever be elite