New Orleans Saints Draft thread

[504 to ATL]

Huh no mention of Chris Houston, that is a surprise considering he might be the best CB avalible at the time they draft.

[Auron]

Originally Posted by 504 to ATL

Huh no mention of Chris Houston, that is a surprise considering he might be the best CB avalible at the time they draft.

I don't think they are done setting up visits, a team can have up to 30 prospects visit I believe.

and also it's not a certainty that the players they do bring in are the main targets, often times a player that gets drafted admits he didn't even know the team was interested in him.

[TigerBait45]

Heres a question..

If all 4 first round corners (Hall, Revis, Houston and Ross) are off the board when we select at 27, would you rather take Justin Harrell or Dwayne Bowe?

I personally don't think either one is a bad pick if they're our BPA. I think I'd take Harrell before Bowe because a young DT is a pretty big need for the Saints right now, but Bowe could be a really solid pick if nobody else is around.

[Auron]

Originally Posted by TigerBait45

Heres a question..

If all 4 first round corners (Hall, Revis, Houston and Ross) are off the board when we select at 27, would you rather take Justin Harrell or Dwayne Bowe?

I personally don't think either one is a bad pick if they're our BPA. I think I'd take Harrell before Bowe because a young DT is a pretty big need for the Saints right now, but Bowe could be a really solid pick if nobody else is around.

I'm thinking that come draft time if we want one of the top tier Corners we're going to have to trade up for sure. Hall, Houston, and Revis have done nothing but raise their stock since the combine/pro days, and Ross is rising as well.

In your scenario it depends on how the Saints have each player graded out, if Bowe and Harrell are the BPA, personally I would go with Harrell just because I feel like upgrading the Defense is the biggest priority, and this is a deep WR class.

I could see a good case for either one though.

[TigerBait45]

Yeah, I've been thinking the same thing. A trade with Dallas, or someone in that range, seems almost necessary to get the corner we desperately need.

With a lot of picks this year I'd imainge it could be done, so its something to think about.

[Auron]

I'm trying to make a list of some possibilities, this is in no way a big board or anything just throwing some names out there. More like a database or such.


Top CBs:
Darrelle Revis, Pittsburgh.
Chris Houston, Arkansas.
Aaron Ross, Texas.

Top WRs:
Dwayne Bowe, LSU.
Robert Meachem, Tennesse.
Ted Ginn Jr. Ohio St.
Dwayne Jarrett, USC.

I think most of these guys will be off the board at 27, there is a chance someone could fall. I expect Jarrett to be there but I don't know how interested the Saints will be. (Didn't include Hall because I think he'll be out of reach)

Some of the BPA prospects that should be available. (some are not at a position of need but guys that are expected to be the top value late round 1)

Late Round 1 value
Jon Beason (OLB) Miami.
Lawrence Timmons (OLB) FSU.
Justin Harrell (DT) Tennessee.
Anthony Spencer, (DE) Purdue.
Jarvis Moss (DE) Florida.
Joe Staley (OT) Central Mich.
Michael Griffin (S) Texas
Eric Weddle (S/CB) Utah
Justin Blalock (OG) Texas
Ben Grubbs (OG) Auburn

A lot of underrated players here, there should be some prime LB value available I didn't include Poz because I think he'll be gone, but if he does slide that would be great value as well. Some nice D-line value, with Edge rushing talent which is a possible angle the Saints may look into with Grant's future unclear, Harrell is the interior presence.

I really don't see the Saints looking Guard this early unless they have a guy graded out as a "All Pro type" and it doesn't seem like there are any in this group, although they are solid.


Round 2 Options (no particular order)
Marcus McCauley (CB) Fresno St.
Eric Wright (CB) UNLV
Tanard Jackson (CB/S) Syracuse
Daymeion Hughes (CB) California
Josh Wilson (CB) Maryland
David Harris (MLB) Michigan
Steward Bradley (OLB) Nebraska.
Rufus Alexander (OLB) Oklahoma.
Brandon Mebane (DT) California.
Quinn Pitcock (DT) Ohio St.
Ray McDonald (DE/DT) Florida.
Sidney Rice (WR) South Carolina.
Craig Davis (WR) LSU.
Steve Smith (WR) USC.
Ben Patrick (TE) Delaware.

Probably missed a few guys, overall there is a chance we might trade back into the top of round 2, if there's nothing appealing if we're stuck at 27. A few underrated receivers that get overshadowed by the top tier, some run stuffing guys at DT, There is some CB value here also it depends on how our staff views McCauley, Wright both have different concerns but it looks like they are further investigating them.


Round 3 & On (no order)
H.B Blades (LB) Pittsburgh.
Zak DeOssie (MLB) Brown
Justin Durant (OLB) Hampton
Quincy Black (OLB) New Mexico
Tim Shaw (OLB) Penn St.
Michael Okwo (OLB) Stanford

Turk McBride (DT) Tennessee
Ryan McBean (DT/DE) Oklahoma St.
Kareem Brown (DT) Miami
LaMarr Woodley (DE) Michigan
Dan Bazuin (DE) Central Mich.

David Irons (CB) Auburn
Fred Bennett (CB) South Carolina
Jonathon Wade (CB) Tennessee
Michael Coe (CB) Alabama St.
Travarous Bain (CB) Hampton
CJ Gaddis (CB) Clemson
AJ Davis (CB) NC State
DeAndre Jackson (CB) Iowa St.

Aundrae Allison (WR) East Carolina
Johnnie Lee Higgins (WR) UTEP
Courtney Taylor (WR) Auburn
Jacoby Jones (WR) Lane
Paul Williams (WR) Fresno St.

Matt Spaeth (TE) Minnesota
Scott Chandler (TE) Iowa
Martrez Milner (TE) Georgia

Manuel Ramirez (OG) Texas Tech
Andy Alleman (OG) Akron
Mansfield Wrotto (OG) Georgia Tech
----

not very comprehensive but I just wanted to get a basic look at some possibilities visualized round by round.

[TigerBait45]

I'll tell you what, grabbing McCauley in the 2nd would be great if we didn't get a corner in the first.

Justin Harrell, McCauley, and someone like H.B. Blades would be a really nice first day.

[Saints67]

Saints are VERY interested in Daymeion Hughes, as well....

per his interview on Siruis.

[Saints67]

here is a site that shows players, that the Saints are interested in...
http://www.newerascouting.com/index.php?c=33&a=103



also, the saints have a interview with Paul Puz (LB, Penn State), per.....
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_502684.html



also, on 'saintsreport.com' someone reported that Lawernce Timmons (LB, FSU) has a visit set up with us as well.

[Auron]

Originally Posted by Saints67

Saints are VERY interested in Daymeion Hughes, as well....also, the saints have a interview with Paul Puz

Interesting stuff. Looks like the Saints are doing their homework on the 2nd tier CBs (McCauley, Hughes, Wright)

Added the Posluszny visit to the first post.

[TigerBait45]

I don't like Hughes too much. I don't think he has the speed to be successful in the NFL.

He'd make a good nickel guy in a tampa 2, but I don't think he can play man to man consistently at this level.

I met Ryan Kalil through a friend of mines Friday. What a great guy! Not as Big as I thought;but anyways; He told us he was headed to New Orleans Yesterday which was Saturday. Sorry I been busy so I couldn't post this till now. He said They have shown the most interest in him. That's all for now.

Oh by the way I live in Los Angeles, and I'm a Texans Fan, so I just passing along info about your team..

[Auron]

Originally Posted by Daonly

Oh by the way I live in Los Angeles, and I'm a Texans Fan, so I just passing along info about your team..

Thanks for the info sir.

Kalil eh? haven't read anything yet maybe there will be some info soon concerning him and the Saints.

Oh he also told my friend that he's concerned with living in New Orleans, and his frist choice would be Denver;but he like the team.

[TigerBait45]

I dunno if he'll even be around for us to take, but I like him a lot. Hes a guy you can plug into your line and be set with for 10 years.

[diabsoule]

I'd love for us to land him but I don't think Pittsburgh will pass on him, but if they do and he falls to our pick in the 2nd Rd. then I'd jump on the opportunity to land him.

[diabsoule]

I'm not too interested in any of the 2nd tier cornerbacks that the Saints have visted with, with the possible exception of Marcus McCauley. The players I like are Fred Bennett, Josh Wilson, Michael Coe, and David Irons and those are guys we could look to target in Round 3.

[TigerBait45]

Irons is nasty. One of the toughest DB's in this draft, I think.

[Auron]

Originally Posted by diabsoule

I'm not too interested in any of the 2nd tier cornerbacks that the Saints have visted with, with the possible exception of Marcus McCauley. The players I like are Fred Bennett, Josh Wilson, Michael Coe, and David Irons and those are guys we could look to target in Round 3.

For the most part I agree. Each of those guys have their own concerns. Wright has a lot of talent but has character concerns with off the field issues. McCauley has great upside, but underachieved his senior season. Hughes timed very poorly and has questions about whether he can transition in a man to man scheme on an NFL level.

If the Saints are unable to land a top tier corner, I would not panic at all if they waited until the 3rd tier to get their guy(s) in the 3rd/4th. I wonder which one one they'll target. Just going to post a small summary browsing through Scott's reports.


Josh Wilson, Maryland.
(+ Positives) Great speed, excellent quickness, agility, and leaping skills. Good instincts, and can run with receivers down field

(- Negatives) Lacks height, undersized, average hands.

Overall I really like his speed, I think he can step in and prevent giving up the deep play for us. However his lack of size may make for mismatches against him in the redzone, and possibly in run support.


Fred Bennett, South Carolina.
(+ Positives) Good size, frame. Quick, aggressive in coverage and will get hands on the football. Good leaper.

(- Negatives) Not physical, average tackler, hips may be a bit stiff. Underachieves at times and does not always play up to his physical tools.

I think he's a little riskier than the others, the physical tools are there but a bit of an underachiever. I don't know if he's a "Payton type" of player.


David Irons, Auburn.
(+ Positives) Tough, physical and aggressive, good closing speed and quickness. Plays bigger than his size, has a lot of upside.

(- Negatives)
Durability concerns, 2 ACL injuries in the past. Better in press coverage, than off coverage. Does not make many big plays.

Personally I think if he checks out medically he could be a steal. I think he has potential to be a good man press corner. I admit I haven't seen much of him though.


Michael Coe, Alabama St.
(+ Positives) Very good size, frame, long arms. Fluid hips, can turn and run. Instinctive, and closes fast. Has good intangibles.

(- Negatives) Can improve in run support, didn't emerge until he jumped down to a lower competition level.

Probably my favorite 3rd tier prospect, I think he has all the tools to be a good fit in a man to man scheme, however he may be a bit raw coming from Division 1-A and might have to sit and learn a bit early on.

[TigerBait45]

Irons is really, really physical. He's nasty in the press, is a hard hitter, and has speed to hold down big plays.

I like him a lot.

[504 to ATL]

Regardless at our pick with the holes we need to fill there are tons of good enough players who could make immediate impacts. As long as the saints draft a position of need in the first round I will be happy.

If we draft BPA first round I will be upset, especially with the holes on defense the Saints currently have.

[Auron]

Originally Posted by 504 to ATL

Regardless at our pick with the holes we need to fill there are tons of good enough players who could make immediate impacts. As long as the saints draft a position of need in the first round I will be happy.

If we draft BPA first round I will be upset, especially with the holes on defense the Saints currently have.

Well this is what I feel the Saints will do come draft day. Obviously they're going to have their top targets, if they are unable to land those guys. What I think they'll do is try and trade down and look for better value, if they cannot I think they'll definitely go the BPA route. Especially considering looking at the past few years we technically didn't need Will Smith, or Reggie Bush but they were felt to be the Best guys available, and those selections have turned out to pay off huge dividends.

Honestly I think trying to force yourself into a position where you limit yourself to only a few options at one particular position, is a bad Draft strategy. That's when you end up with a Jonathan Sullivan like situation. (had a huge need at DT, traded up and failed) I think at 27, we'll see them do what worked best the past few years, and go the BPA route. Obviously there are going to be a few exceptions (doubt we'll see a QB, or RB early on)

Here's a good article on the Saints Draft Strategy, have to register to read but I'll post it here. Saints Looking for Best Option

As the New Orleans Saints and the other 31 NFL teams inch toward the April 28-29 draft, they are positioning themselves toward choosing what they consider to be the best option when it comes down to selecting college players.

Every team has a different outlook on exactly where it will address certain weaknesses. But for the Saints, especially early in the draft, they will look to take the best player on the draft board.

That philosophy is a result of the Saints trading up and selecting Georgia defensive tackle Johnathan Sullivan in 2003.

Remember in 2002, the Saints came within a heartbeat of making the playoffs. But a late-season collapse in which they lost three straight games and then-coach Jim Haslett’s stubbornness in not replacing injured starting quarterback Aaron Brooks for Jake Delhomme, eventually sealed his fate in New Orleans.

Haslett desperately wanted a defensive tackle and focused in on the talented, but unmotivated, 310-pound Sullivan.

Armed with two first-round selections, the Saints packaged those picks to move up 11 spots and select Sullivan.

When it comes down to bad draft moves, the trade up to select Sullivan has to go down as one of the Saints’ all-time blunders. But it also left a lasting impression on the Saints’ front office to never this poor of a move again.

Teams will always make poor draft-day decisions because of the inaccuracy in trying to gauge a player’s motivation, work ethic and health issues. But what you are going to see from Saints general manager Mickey Loomis and coach Sean Payton will have more to do with what they have paid for and set up in the offseason than the need for one specific area.

Loomis has said more than once he wants to address immediate needs through veteran free agency and then have the option, especially early on, to take the best player on the Saints’ draft board.

This offseason, the Saints have acquired a possible starter in former San Francisco 49ers tight end Eric Johnson -- provided he can stay healthy, a starting inside linebacker in Brian Simmons from the Cincinnati Bengals and a versatile defender in former Bengals safety Kevin Kaesviharn, who will provide solid depth behind projected starters Josh Bullocks and Roman Harper.

The Saints also traded a sixth-round draft choice to the Miami Dolphins for a very good kicker in Olindo Mare, and signed a solid third wide receiver in veteran David Patten from the Washington Redskins.

Patten has struggled with injuries the past few years, but if he can stay healthy and fight off age-issues -- he will be 33 years old when the season starts -- he will give quarterback Drew Brees a quick, very experienced sure-handed receiving option.

Last week, the Saints signed former Houston Texans linebacker Troy Evans, who is known for his excellent play on special teams, and could provide some depth at linebacker also.

Where the Saints still have a glaring need is at cornerback. Despite efforts to sign free agents Rod Hood, William James and Frank Walker, all three decided to sign elsewhere, and the team is still looking for a seasoned veteran cornerback.

The Saints have talked with veterans Tory James -- a former LSU Tiger who has played the last four seasons with the Cincinnati Bengals -- and Indianapolis Colts restricted free agent Jason David.

David has started 49 games over the past three seasons for the world champions, and it would only cost the Saints a fourth-round choice if the Colts opted not to match a potential offer from the Saints to David.

But what this boils down to is don’t expect the Saints to just focus on drafting a cornerback in Round 1, if the right option is not there.

If the Saints keep the 27th selection, the worst mistake they can make is force a pick like they did with Sullivan, and pass up a much higher-rated player at wide receiver, defensive tackle or linebacker.

Despite the fact the Saints were just one game away from their first Super Bowl appearance, this football team has enough holes -- especially on defense -- to not go the route of picking the best player on the board.

The good football teams in this league stay on top because they draft well and don’t reach for a lower-ranked player just because he could fill a position of need.

The option of the Saints trading up in the first round for a player they really like is certainly an option. They did this in 2004 when they traded up three spots, (they gave up a first-round pick that year and a third-round choice in 2005), to select Oklahoma offensive tackle Jammal Brown.

While the Saints still may pick a cornerback in Round 1 if they see a player like Pittsburgh’s Darrelle Revis or Arkansas’ Chris Houston fall a bit. If they don’t trade up to assure themselves the chance of picking one of those match-up cover people, don’t be surprised to see the Saints pick a player like LSU wide receiver Dwayne Bowe, USC wideout Dwayne Jarrett, Tennessee defensive tackle Justin Harrell or Penn State linebacker Paul Posluszny.

The smart thing to do is pick the best player on the board. Now if the best player is a quarterback, running back or an offensive tackle, I see them passing on these positions, but not a top talent at wide receiver, defensive tackle or linebacker if the right cornerback is not around.

One former Saints regional scout said while Haslett had a great amount of say at draft time during his tenure, he believes the working relationship with Loomis and Payton is much better.

"Jim publicly put most of those bad choices on the scouting department, but he had a great say on who this team selected and he was not a good talent evaluator," the former scout said. "To be honest, Jim had very little working respect for anyone in that organization. Sean has a much better eye for talent and he has a certain blueprint for the right player he wants and he doesn’t move off that type performer. When you pick this low in Round 1, you look for a value pick and that probably will not be at cornerback, unless you trade up to pick one. In my opinion the real value choice late in Round One will probably be at wide receiver and maybe even at linebacker. You can focus on need areas with later round picks, but in rounds one and two, I just believe you can’t just focus on a position or two."

While the Saints still have holes to fill at cornerback, defensive tackle, wide receiver and linebacker, they have made it clear that they will not reach for a certain spot in the first round, and that’s smart.

Yes, the Saints are in need of a quality cover-corner, but that doesn’t mean they will pick one in the opening round if the right player is not on the board.

This should make this quite an interesting draft day for the New Orleans Saints.

DAVID AND THE GOLIATHS

The Saints’ decision to bring in Jason David for a visit and possible contract talks raised some eyebrows across the NFL.

David is a good starting cornerback, and he has excelled in the Colts’ Cover-2 defensive scheme. But the 5-foot-8, 174-pounder does not seem to be the exact fit for the New Orleans Saints in defensive coordinator Gary Gibbs’ scheme that emphasizes more man-to-man pressure coverage.

David has shown he has the foot speed, toughness and ballhawking skills to play in the NFL, his size puts him at a disadvantage in one-on-one coverage downfield against the much larger wideouts in the league.

One veteran NFL offensive coordinator who has gone up against David quite a few times since the Colts selected him in the fourth round of the 2004 draft said David may be the best option the Saints have at this stage, despite his lack of ideal size.

"Gary Gibbs likes to play a lot of tight one-on-one coverage sets and while this is not ideal for David, I have gone against him enough to say that he would be a good option for New Orleans," the current AFC offensive coordinator said. "He is not very big and quarterbacks will go after him, if the Saints sign him, due to his lack of size, but he is a very feisty kid and he has excellent foot recovery speed. He is a perfect fit for a team who uses a lot of the Tampa-2 coverage schemes and I am shocked that some team would not make a run at him if all they had to give up was a fourth round choice to acquire him.

"I have looked at a number of the young cornerbacks in this draft and while guys like Leon Hall, Chris Houston, Darrelle Revis in Round 1 and even players like Marcus McCauley from Fresno State and Alabama State’s Michael Coe later on would fit what the Saints run on defense, there aren’t a lot of these real physical cornerbacks who excel in man-on-man schemes," the coordinator continued. "Jason is a real good kid and an overachiever type player. What jumps out at you about David in my opinion is his quick reaction skills. After I saw what Sean Payton and Gibbs got out of that defense last season, this coaching staff knows the right type players to get and while the fit doesn’t look right on paper, this kid can play."

NFL analyst Mike Detillier is based in Raceland.

The bolded parts are IMO the thoughts I'm trying to echo.

[Flyboy]

I really really wouldn't want us selecting Justin Harrell.

[Auron]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I really really wouldn't want us selecting Justin Harrell.

Just curious, but how come? Personally he's not my ideal choice but if the Saints were in a situation where their primary targets are off the board and they selected him I wouldn't be be opposed to it.

He's very athletic, and quick for a big guy his size. Can disrupt plays in the backfield, good tackler who plays the run well.

However the most impressive thing about this kid IMO is his character. He's described as a hard worker, with top intangibles. Someone who will play through pain to help his team. UT Sports: Harrell In this video his teammates, and coaches talk about his leadership qualities by leading by example, in the way he handles himself on and off the field.

I think he's pretty much the polar opposite of a guy like Sullivan, who was unmotivated, and had a questionable work ethic.