Young Guns: Bradford, Stafford, Sanchez, Freeman, Flacco, Ryan - Page 61

holt_bruce81 · 09-12-2012, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soybean

yeah, instead let's rank them based on team bias. That's a much better way to evaluate qbs.

or let's rank them based on how bad their team is, because the player with the worst team is obviously the best qb because imagine if he was on a better team!

No, because if you rank them that way, well then Sam Bradford would be #1. Are you saying that Sam Bradford is #1 for you?

Simply Keak · 09-12-2012, 02:16 AM

Stafford
Flacco
Ryan
Bradford
Sanchez
Freeman

Caddy · 09-12-2012, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soybean

had a legit number 1, mike williams, decent other wrs, had a decent TE, winslow, a good running game and a good defense. What more is there to explain. Other qbs have gotten it done with far less.

now if you want to blame raheem morris, then maybe I'll understand.

What other receivers? You mean a rag tag bunch of rookies, has-beens and never weres? Tampa's offense has been garbage the last few years and only very, very recently have we been able to say we have some good-great players at skill positions.

In regards to Freeman's performance on Sunday, he did exactly what he was asked. His stat line wasn't as great as it should have been (30+ yard pass called back, dropped passes etc), but he did a great job running for first downs when he needed to and making plays on 3rd down. It wasn't a great performance, but it was a well executed performance and a great start to the season for a QB with a new OC and HC.

holt_bruce81 · 09-12-2012, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59

Only play of the Rams game I saw today was Bradford woefully under-throwing a wide open receiver deep. Made me think of this thread.

Just didn't get enough on the pass. The announcers said Sam saw him late (the receiver was Chris Givens) but he didn't. On that play Sam looked at Danny Amendola and Chris Givens first, they were covered (Detroit was in a deep zone) Bradford went to his 3rd option Lance Kendricks who was open, pump faked it to him drawing the safety in, giving Chris Givens some seperation.

It was bad because he didn't reset his feet properly to get enough on the pass (he was pretty much throwing from his back foot) which still traveled around 60 yards. Not because he doesn't have the arm strength......But it did hit Givens in the Hands, and had that been a Calvin, Larry, AJ or a top tier Receiver, that's a 60-yard completion, maybe a touchdown.

georgiafan · 09-12-2012, 07:10 AM

No way Flacco should be below Bradford in this list

SolidGold · 09-12-2012, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy

If you're right, that's par for the course for the Bucs... We've never had a franchise quarterback, but that didn't stop the team from competing in the late '90s and winning a Super Bowl in 2002.

The lack of an elite quarterback didn't keep the Bears from making it to the 2006 Super Bowl, it didn't keep the Niners from making it to the NFC Championship Game last season and the Ravens won the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer, the only quarterback to ever be released by his team following a Super Bowl victory.

A great quarterback certainly makes winning easier, but it can be done without one.

I will say, though, that Freeman's 2010 season shows that he has the talent to be an elite player. Whether or not he can rediscover that success remains to be seen, but a 25:6 TD to INT ratio doesn't happen by accident.

Honestly I think Brad Johnson was a pretty damn good QB. He does not get a lot of credit and seems largely forgotten. He was more than a game manager IMO. I do agree that the stellar defense with guys like Sapp, Simeon Rice, Brooks, Lynch and Barber and having an Alstott/Dunn backfield also helped. They were just a really good team and Brad Johnson was able to play within Chucky's system.

LonghornsLegend · 09-12-2012, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

Ranking them right now, Bradford is last and it's really not all that close. As inconsistent as Sanchez and Freeman have been, Bradford wishes his statline looked like theirs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by soybean

yeah, instead let's rank them based on team bias. That's a much better way to evaluate qbs.

or let's rank them based on how bad their team is, because the player with the worst team is obviously the best qb because imagine if he was on a better team!

I love Rams fans in this thread. The jokes never stop.

bucfan12 · 09-12-2012, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengalsrocket

Freeman definitely has the potential to be a whole lot more than just a game manager. This board might not have a ton of Freeman believers, but his talent is definitely there.

He just hasn't matched his talent in production yet, and a large part of that is a a fairly weak team around him.

It's not a fairly weak team around him. It's inexperience. Te Wrs are in they're 3rd year and V-Jax was brought in for experience ad help develop Benn and Williams who are explosive talents.

I think the addition of Mike Sullivan is going to pay off big time. He developed those Wrs in NY and then helped improve Eli to his best season last year as qbs coach.

After watching Freeman vs Carolina he seems to have improved a lot. Was very accurate even in the passes of 15 + yds. The weather was sloppy in the 2nd half which led to a more conservative game plan but 12-14 for 124 yds in te first. If anyone watched the 2nd half 3 drops for big gains and a 30 yd ball negated by a penalty wasn't on him.

He's still a work I progress but i see big things as the season progresses as Freeman and the offense get more comfortable.

Legacy · 09-12-2012, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold

Honestly I think Brad Johnson was a pretty damn good QB. He does not get a lot of credit and seems largely forgotten. He was more than a game manager IMO. I do agree that the stellar defense with guys like Sapp, Simeon Rice, Brooks, Lynch and Barber and having an Alstott/Dunn backfield also helped. They were just a really good team and Brad Johnson was able to play within Chucky's system.

Franchise quarterbacks are long-term solutions at the position around whom you build a team.

Brad Johnson was an excellent quarterback for the Buccaneers (and probably my favorite Buc at that position), but he only played for the team for three seasons, so he doesn't fit the description of a "franchise quarterback."

Hurricanes25 · 09-12-2012, 11:52 AM

Currently:

Matt Stafford
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Mark Sanchez/Josh Freeman (I can't put one guy above the other at the moment)
Sam Bradford

bucfan12 · 09-12-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurricanes25

Currently:

Matt Stafford
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Mark Sanchez/Josh Freeman (I can't put one guy above the other at the moment)
Sam Bradford

Thats accurate and definately agree. Although maybe its bc of me being a homer but I'd put freeman over Sanchez simply bc he's shown more with less. I'd probably put flacco ahead of Ryan but u can go either way.

soybean · 09-12-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Thats accurate and definately agree. Although maybe its bc of me being a homer but I'd put freeman over Sanchez simply bc he's shown more with less. I'd probably put flacco ahead of Ryan but u can go either way.

he also had a horrible year last year.

killxswitch · 09-12-2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Thats accurate and definately agree. Although maybe its bc of me being a homer but I'd put freeman over Sanchez simply bc he's shown more with less. I'd probably put flacco ahead of Ryan but u can go either way.

No he hasn't. Sanchez has had postseason success. He has at times dominated throwing the ball. Freeman had a good rookie year and a terrible 2nd season.

BamaFalcon59 · 09-12-2012, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch

No he hasn't. Sanchez has had postseason success. He has at times dominated throwing the ball. Freeman had a good rookie year and a terrible 2nd season.

Not sure if serious

Legacy · 09-12-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch

Freeman had a good rookie year and a terrible 2nd season.

What?

Freeman had a 25:6 TD:INT ratio in his second season. He also looked pretty good in his rookie season... He finally got the opportunity to start midway through the season and, while he didn't always look fantastic, he did lead a pretty bad Buccaneers team to a couple of 4th quarter comebacks.

It's his third season (last year) where he looked terrible.

killxswitch · 09-12-2012, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59

Not sure if serious

Brain fart. His 2nd year was the good year. I should've said he had a good first year as a full-time starter. I still don't think he has in any way proven to be a better QB than Sanchez though. Even with all of Sanchez' faults.

Jvig43 · 09-12-2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurricanes25

Currently:

Matt Stafford
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Mark Sanchez/Josh Freeman (I can't put one guy above the other at the moment)
Sam Bradford

I can get on board with this, but would give Sanchez the edge against Freeman. As much as I am down on Sanchez I think he certainly has proven to be more viable than Freeman at this point.

tjsunstein · 09-12-2012, 02:33 PM

Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan may surpass Stafford this year depending how close you have them to begin with.

Scotty D · 09-12-2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjsunstein

Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan may surpass Stafford this year depending how close you have them to begin with.

Maybe, he still put up 355 on a bad day. Pettigrew dropped a TD pass and his INTs were mistakes I've rarely seen him make. Took the team down the field and won the game with 2 minutes left. Took them 80 yards the drive before that to tie it up at 20-20.

NY+Giants=NYG · 09-12-2012, 02:39 PM

I forgot but what players are in the same draft class. It goes Eli, Ben, Rivers, Matt S.

Then who gets compared to each other because of draft class. For example now, Luck and Bob G. will be compared to each other all career long.

soybean · 09-12-2012, 02:46 PM

it's really hard to compare Matt Ryan and Matthew Stafford. On one hand, Matt Stafford's one season trumps anything Matt Ryan has ever done. On the other hand, Matt Ryan has consistently put up decent numbers while Stafford only ever played one full season.

Also, I know it's only been one week but if the first week has any indication of what's to come, Matt Ryan had the best performance out of any qb in the league. Maybe after this season we'll have a better view of them two.

It's clearly those two at the top though.

killxswitch · 09-12-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG

I forgot but what players are in the same draft class. It goes Eli, Ben, Rivers, Matt S.

Then who gets compared to each other because of draft class. For example now, Luck and Bob G. will be compared to each other all career long.

I tend to group them like this:

08 - Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco
09 - Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman
10 - Sam Bradford

----

11 - Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Andy Dalton
12 - Andrew Luck, RG3, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden, Russell Wilson

Not sure what the separation is based on, maybe the old cap rules vs. new.

NY+Giants=NYG · 09-12-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch

I tend to group them like this:

08 - Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco
09 - Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman
10 - Sam Bradford

----

11 - Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Andy Dalton
12 - Andrew Luck, RG3, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden, Russell Wilson

Not sure what the separation is based on, maybe the old cap rules vs. new.

THat's what I was looking for. Then I guess grade them by class. Or which QB is in the same era or contemporaries of each other. For example, the Qbs in the 2004 class aren't to be compared with the younger guys. So I look at it like which Qbs are contemporaries of each other.

Raiderz4Life · 09-12-2012, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty D

Maybe, he still put up 355 on a bad day. Pettigrew dropped a TD pass and his INTs were mistakes I've rarely seen him make. Took the team down the field and won the game with 2 minutes left. Took them 80 yards the drive before that to tie it up at 20-20.

If Ryan and Flacco have good years I wouldn't mind putting them ahead of Stafford who is a bit overrated. His accuracy can get wild, it was just magnified against the Rams. His numbers get ridiculously inflated because they lack a running game so he chucks it 30-50 times a game, and to Megatron no less. He also has injury problems.

Scotty D · 09-12-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiderz4life

If Ryan and Flacco have good years I wouldn't mind putting them ahead of Stafford who is a bit overrated. His accuracy can get wild, it was just magnified against the Rams. His numbers get ridiculously inflated because they lack a running game so he chucks it 30-50 times a game, and to Megatron no less. He also has injury problems.

Megatron was targeted 7 times and had 6 receptions. The running game was fine last week. Still had a 66 completion percentage. I didn't watch the Chiefs game but they didn't have Flowers and threw out a very weak secondary.