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View Poll Results: Who would you build around?
Darrelle Revis 27 31.40%
Haloti Ngata 21 24.42%
Jason Pierre-Paul 11 12.79%
Patrick Willis 15 17.44%
DeMarcus Ware 5 5.81%
Clay Matthews 0 0%
Terrell Suggs 0 0%
Ndamukong Suh 4 4.65%
Mario Williams 0 0%
Other 3 3.49%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-19-2012, 06:22 PM    (permalink
tjsunstein
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If I'm going with one from each tier, give me:

Tier One: Darelle Revis
Tier Two: Eric Berry
Tier Three: Justin Smith
Tier Four: Von Miller/ JJ Watt
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
You make solid points. But my thing is a good front is the equivalent of Revis. I can avoid Revis and still beat you. This has been proven. He may affect where a QB goes with the ball but he may go a game without seeing a single pass go his way and STILL be on the losing end. But you have to block Justin Smith. And even when you block him with two guys, he will still be in the backfield, and he will still be disruptive. Now that you dedicated two O-Lineman to block him, that frees up my other guys to go one-on-one and beat their man.
So no, my back-end may not have a Revis, but my guys are making more plays on the ball, as they're being thrown under duress, allowing them to affect the game more than Revis Island, who hasn't seen a pass all day. That in itself is good, don't get me wrong. But how many ints can you get when the ball isn't coming your way? I need some splash plays out my this defense too, and I'm more liable to get some FF's and batted balls upfront. You give me a front that overwhelms a O-Line and watch me affect the run(which Revis doesn't) and the pass. Most importantly I affect play-calling and affect your protection up front. Revis may affect where the ball may go pre-snap in a passing situation but what if its 3rd and 1? 4th and 1? He doesn't affect whether your max-protect on 3rd downs or your chipping my ends because your tackles can't handle them one-on-one.....because Justin Smith is occupying two guys every single pass down. Your absolutely right, Revis allows you A TON of flexibility on the back-end to really confuse a offense and allow you to just defend certain areas of the field. But I think its easier the gameplan around a CB as a OC. You can't gameplan around a good front. You just can't. Eventually, you have to line up across from me and win more times than I do.
Exactly. Pretty simple. You have to deal with a guy in a trenches. You don't have to throw at Revis, as many don't and take their chances with whoever is on the other side. No matter the the down and distance you have to account for a guy like Justin Smith, J.J. Watt, or Haloti Ngata. They can't be ignored.
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. Pretty simple. You have to deal with a guy in a trenches. You don't have to throw at Revis, as many don't and take their chances with whoever is on the other side. No matter the the down and distance you have to account for a guy like Justin Smith, J.J. Watt, or Haloti Ngata. They can't be ignored.
That's exactly why you go with Revis. There are plenty of guys like Ngata, Smith, Watt. There is only one Revis and he offers something completely unique that no one else can offer.
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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That's exactly why you go with Revis. There are plenty of guys like Ngata, Smith, Watt. There is only one Revis and he offers something completely unique that no one else can offer.
And Revis still doesn't have to be thrown at. Not only that, but if your defensive line isn't getting pressure you're secondary is going to suffer having to cover receivers for 5+ seconds. And what is Revis going to do on third and short? Or when a team is running out the clock?

I think I'd rather risk losing out on Revis in this scenario while having a great foundation to start my defensive line. There are a lot other corners out there that are very good. Revis is a great player, if you want to say he's the best corner in the league fine. Regardless there are other guys like Johnathan Joesph and Lardarius Webb...especially Webb who I don't think has allowed more than three touchdowns since he came into the league in 2009 (while surrendering none last year) and had just as good a season as Revis did in 2011.

I would never start with a defensive back when building a defense personally.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 09-19-2012, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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Teams don't just have one stud WR now. If you have an average line and give the QB enough time, he'll find a receiver other than the one Revis is covering to throw to.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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Wide receivers have the leverage of knowing where they are going. No matter how talented you are as a defensive back, if you have to constantly cover a guy for 5 plus seconds time after time it's not going to end up working out for you very well. You need that front seven, especially the line, to generate push and help you out.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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Wide receivers have the leverage of knowing where they are going. No matter how talented you are as a defensive back, if you have to constantly cover a guy for 5 plus seconds time after time it's not going to end up working out for you very well. You need that front seven, especially the line, to generate push and help you out.
When is the last time Revis had a good passrusher to help him?
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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I voted for Ndamakong Suh, although after reading the discussion I've almost been persuaded to Ngata or JPP. The big difference for me is I like the intimidation factor Suh brings to the table. Not a fan of the extracurricular arm-stomping stuff, but playing hard to the whistle, leveling quarterbacks borderline late, I'm good with that. He's a mean son of a gun and I like that.

The Giants and 49ers have proven that championships are still won in the trenches. It was their pass rush that kept those teams in the game. I don't care who you have back covering or who's throwing the football, if you have to cover for longer than 4 seconds you will be beat. Putting the quarterback on his back is the key to successful defense.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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When is the last time Revis had a good passrusher to help him?
That doesn't really matter. Teams still don't have to throw at Revis. And Revis probably won't be more valuable on short yardage situations than your interior defensive linemen that has to be accounted for on every single play. You can't just avoid a Ngata or Smith. You literally have to deal with him. Revis no. He can be avoided by not throwing his way. Or you can try to run the ball a bunch of times. Having a space eater up front that is disruptive in stopping the run and collapsing the pocket makes the entire defense better. And it doesn't matter if it's run/pass. They have to be accounted for at all times.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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That doesn't really matter. Teams still don't have to throw at Revis. And Revis probably won't be more valuable on short yardage situations than your interior defensive linemen that has to be accounted for on every single play. You can't just avoid a Ngata or Smith. You literally have to deal with him. Revis no. He can be avoided by not throwing his way.
And when the QB does that, he's most likely throwing into double coverage. And when Revis is playing a team like Detroit, he takes away their best player. So the QB would be avoiding Calvin and throwing into double coverage to lets say Titus Young.

The gap between Revis and the next guy is much larger than the best player at another position and the second best player. That's why Revis is the answer, imo.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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And when the QB does that, he's most likely throwing into double coverage. And when Revis is playing a team like Detroit, he takes away their best player. So the QB would be avoiding Calvin and throwing into double coverage to lets say Titus Young.

The gap between Revis and the next guy is much larger than the best player at another position and the second best player. That's why Revis is the answer, imo.
Depends. Teams spread out the ball a lot more than they used to. Your other option isn't always going to be double covered. And if a team pounds the football constantly and on short yardage situations...well, I'd like to have that line well stacked with the best the league has to offer.

Doesn't matter if it's Deion Sanders or Dick "Night Train" Lane in there, I wouldn't start with a defensive back when building a defense.

Just like I wouldn't start with Jerry Rice in his prime when building an offense.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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I would personally lean towards one of those dominant interior lineman like a Ngata, Suh, Wilfork, etc. They have the ability to completely take over games in both facets of D (pass rush, run) and can make the outside guys look a lot better than they really are by decreasing the depth of the pocket and forcing a QB to go east and west. In this day and age where the rules for DB's give the O a big advantage in the passing game, the ability to stop the run and create pressure, especially up the middle, is incredibly important IMO.

My pick is Suh fwiw, but the difference between him and Ngata is quite negligible IMO.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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That doesn't really matter. Teams still don't have to throw at Revis. And Revis probably won't be more valuable on short yardage situations than your interior defensive linemen that has to be accounted for on every single play. You can't just avoid a Ngata or Smith. You literally have to deal with him. Revis no. He can be avoided by not throwing his way. Or you can try to run the ball a bunch of times. Having a space eater up front that is disruptive in stopping the run and collapsing the pocket makes the entire defense better. And it doesn't matter if it's run/pass. They have to be accounted for at all times.
How doesn't it matter? Your whole post that I quoted is saying that you need a good pass rush because you can't cover guys for extended periods of time, but Revis has been proving that wrong his whole career. The last halfway decent passrusher they had was Calvin Pace and at his best he was average.

You're oversimplifying this way too much. You can't just "throw it the other way." The fact that Revis' part of the field is basically off limits cuts down on the room to work with and you're relying on your lesser receivers to get open, which they just aren't going to do as often.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Is Suh as dominant as he was as a rookie? At least when the 49ers faced him, he was merely an afterthought and was pretty much neutralized.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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How doesn't it matter? Your whole post that I quoted is saying that you need a good pass rush because you can't cover guys for extended periods of time, but Revis has been proving that wrong his whole career. The last halfway decent passrusher they had was Calvin Pace and at his best he was average.

You're oversimplifying this way too much. You can't just "throw it the other way." The fact that Revis' part of the field is basically off limits cuts down on the room to work with and you're relying on your lesser receivers to get open, which they just aren't going to do as often.
Because it doesn't matter as much as everything else I stated. This should go without saying. My entire post wasn't just about having a good pass rusher, if at all. I was talking about interior lineman. And I also brought up the scenarios of not having to throw at Revis and how his flexability is limited on situations like third and short and against a team that likes to pound you to death with the football. Again, guys like Smith or Ngata have to be accounted for on every play. Revis? No. I mean I guess you have to know where he is when you are passing so you know not to throw in his direction. But whether it's pass or run a guy like Ngata, Watt, or Smith poses a problem for you. And it doesn't matter the down or distance either. And if some teams have more than one good receiving threat, or like to spread out the ball with four and five receiver sets constantly then what?
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Because it doesn't matter as much as everything else I stated. This should go without saying. My entire post wasn't just about having a good pass rusher, if at all. I was talking about interior lineman. And I also brought up the scenarios of not having to throw at Revis and how his flexability is limited on situations like third and short and against a team that likes to pound you to death with the football. Again, guys like Smith or Ngata have to be accounted for on every play. Revis? No. I mean I guess you have to know where he is when you are passing so you know not to throw in his direction. But whether it's pass or run a guy like Ngata, Watt, or Smith poses a problem for you. And it doesn't matter the down or distance either.


What makes Revis not a factor on running downs? He's very good against the run. Not as big of an impact as against the pass obviously but Ngata isn't as impactful against the pass as he is the run so I don't see the difference. He's a three down player in the same way as Justin Smith and Ngata is.

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Old 09-19-2012, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yo123 View Post
What makes Revis not a factor on running downs? He's very good against the run. Not as big of an impact as against the pass obviously but Ngata isn't as impactful against the pass as he is the run so I don't see the difference. He's a three down player in the same way as Justin Smith and Ngata is.
Revis on running downs is not going to be as big a threat as a guy like Ngata or Smith who are usually double teamed. Especially against a team that likes to run a lot. And again, on third and short or goal line situations I'm not sweating Revis as much as I am Smith, Watt, or Ngata if I'm trying to convert to continue a drive or pound it in for a score. And those guys are just as effective against the pass because of the blockers they occupy allowing others to make plays. From the linebackers to the secondary. Not only that, but they have the potential to collapse the pocket straight up the middle which screws up everything for a passing play. Again, they have to be accounted for at all times no matter the down and distance and no matter whether it's run/pass.
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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Teams don't just have one stud WR now. If you have an average line and give the QB enough time, he'll find a receiver other than the one Revis is covering to throw to.
And this is really my point as well. I'm not arguing against Revis as being hands down, the most dominant player at a position that is extremely hard to dominate in this day and age. Revis absolutely belongs in a class of his own as shutdown CB. But he is only one of eleven. And a CB doesn't need to be dominant for a defense to be, as a whole. It isn't like a QB on offense, who really is the conductor of the train. 9 times out of 10, the play is won upfront before its won on the back-end. This isn't a most valuable defensive player debate. It's your personal preference on how you would build a dominate D. I think it has to start with in the trenches. They impact each and every play, as a whole more so than a CB. So what if there's tons of a good players around the league upfront? That doesn't take away from the value of what they do to control a game, snap after snap. And ask a team that doesn't have one, how easy they are to find.

Me, I want the ability to dictate downs. A CB can't do that. If I know that my front is so good that I can leave 6-7 in the box and still eliminate the run, I'm dictating to the offense that they basically have to pass on early downs REPEATEDLY to beat me. That also eliminates play-action, which in turns eliminates the need for my safeties to bite on it, which allows them that one extra second to react faster to support my CBs. It also means, eventually, they're going to abandon the run and now I've made you one-dimensional. And that makes you easier to defend. No matter how good against the run Revis is, he's essentially a non-factor versus the run unless its run outside the tackles, towards his side. Not the same as guys who shoot gaps and clog lanes on the regular.

There are just too many good skilled players on offense in today's game to say ONE elite CB will be enough of a game-changer for me. There are just two many teams with a myriad of weapons on offense, to allow one elite CB to dictate the outcome of a game. It doesn't equal to how a good, disruptive front can help your defense. To me, Ed Reed is the only exception for the reasons I mentioned above in a earlier post.

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Old 09-19-2012, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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Is Suh as dominant as he was as a rookie? At least when the 49ers faced him, he was merely an afterthought and was pretty much neutralized.
Suh is playing very well this year. 2.5 sacks already after 4 last year. He's making plays in the run game. Dominant? I mean he's not taking over games or anything but he looks more like his rookie year than his sophomore year.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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Toss-up between Ngata and Justin Smith. I would lean towards Ngata because he is four years younger.
And that's why I went with Suh over Ngata because he's 4 years younger than Haloti.

Some say Suh is overrated. I say his supporting cast is.

As for a cornerback..... no thanks. I like the Giants method of winning Super Bowls with pressure up front.... made some average DBs look pretty good.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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I voted for Ngata because I love that dude, but I have to mention DeMarcus Ware. I think that when it's all said and done, Ware is going to be mentioned with Deacon Jones and Reggie White.

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Old 09-20-2012, 01:15 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
And that's why I went with Suh over Ngata because he's 4 years younger than Haloti.

Some say Suh is overrated. I say his supporting cast is.

As for a cornerback..... no thanks. I like the Giants method of winning Super Bowls with pressure up front.... made some average DBs look pretty good.

Corey Webster is well above average.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:22 AM    (permalink
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Almost went Ngata but I ended up voting Revis. A true, lockdown corner like Revis is such a rare breed, and having one is any defensive coordinators dream because of how much freedom it gives them to stack the box, or double other threats, or send extra pass rushers. While athletes like Ngata are just as rare, its a lot easier to find big nose tackles who can eat double teams (although probably not as athletic as Ngata) than it is to find a lockdown corner.
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:51 AM    (permalink
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@Cudders: Urlacher and Timmons cannot do what Willis does. Not anymore at least. And Wilfork is more of a 2-gapper than a pass rusher.
Urlacher did what Willis does before Willis did it. He was the leader of one of the most reliable defenses in the past decade and changed how offenses attacked the middle of the field because of his range. Like I said, heís at a different point in his career now, but heís further proof that there have been more dominant middle linebackers than dominant corners in the modern NFL. And Timmons is comparable. Heís got great range and provides great coverage depth. Those are two of Willisí best traits. He doesnít have the instincts that Willis possesses, no, but few do.

As for Wilfork, he gets underrated push in passing situations. He might not be a pass-rusher per se, but heís a definite pocket-collapser and protection-changer. Which is what Ngata is.

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You make solid points. But my thing is a good front is the equivalent of Revis. I can avoid Revis and still beat you. This has been proven. He may affect where a QB goes with the ball but he may go a game without seeing a single pass go his way and STILL be on the losing end. But you have to block Justin Smith. And even when you block him with two guys, he will still be in the backfield, and he will still be disruptive. Now that you dedicated two O-Lineman to block him, that frees up my other guys to go one-on-one and beat their man.

So no, my back-end may not have a Revis, but my guys are making more plays on the ball, as they're being thrown under duress, allowing them to affect the game more than Revis Island, who hasn't seen a pass all day. That in itself is good, don't get me wrong. But how many ints can you get when the ball isn't coming your way? I need some splash plays out my this defense too, and I'm more liable to get some FF's and batted balls upfront. You give me a front that overwhelms a O-Line and watch me affect the run(which Revis doesn't) and the pass. Most importantly I affect play-calling and affect your protection up front. Revis may affect where the ball may go pre-snap in a passing situation but what if its 3rd and 1? 4th and 1? He doesn't affect whether your max-protect on 3rd downs or your chipping my ends because your tackles can't handle them one-on-one.....because Justin Smith is occupying two guys every single pass down. Your absolutely right, Revis allows you A TON of flexibility on the back-end to really confuse a offense and allow you to just defend certain areas of the field. But I think its easier the gameplan around a CB as a OC. You can't gameplan around a good front. You just can't. Eventually, you have to line up across from me and win more times than I do.
Hereís the critical point thatís being missed though. Choosing one doesnít mean the other has to suffer. You can pick Revis to build around and still assemble front seven talent, too. Itís not a choice between a strong front seven and a poor defensive backfield or a poor front seven and a strong defensive backfield. In that case, an entire front seven is better. No one should argue that. But this is the choice of an individual building block. And Revis is the best choice in that regard. You can dedicate other resources to adding trench pieces and filling out the front seven.

As for the other points, Revis is an absolute game-changer. His fingerprints are all over that Jets defense. Like BBD said, even if teams donít want to throw to Revis, defensive scheme sometimes dictates where the ball goes. Rex will overload Revisí side (and, therefore, win the numbers game) and dare quarterbacks to throw right at his stud corner to beat his blitz. And Revis has excellent positioning and ball skills. You will even see him bait quarterbacks. When he gets opportunities, he makes things happen. So I donít agree with the argument that Revis canít change the course of a game or make splashes. Iíve seen him do it.

Of course, Darrelle Revis canít win games on his own. Thatís ludicrous to suggest. But neither can Haloti Ngata or Justin Smith or Jason Pierre-Paul. Pick a defensive linemen, I donít care. Whoever it is, he canít beat an offense on his own either. You get one defender in this exercise. Not an entire front seven. So, as an offensive coordinator, Iíll scheme to remove that person from the game and force his linemates to step up and beat me. Letís test that depth across the line. Letís see if his linemates can win those one-on-ones on a consistent basis. Youíre assuming the line does. Iím unconvinced. Iíve seen a lot of Herculean efforts wasted from pass-rushers because the teammates next to them couldnít execute. Your lineman might make the quarterback step up or roll out. But it doesnít matter if the other linemen canít create chaos in other areas of the field, too. Good quarterbacks find clean spaces.

Do linemen affect offensive scheming? Sure do. But Ngata or Smith arenít immune to being schemed against with success. I can operate in a no-huddle. I can move the pocket. I can incorporate more three- and five-step drops. I can utilize more shotgun snaps. I can get the ball to the perimeter quick and attack in space. I can slide protections. I can leave backs in to protect. I can chip with tight ends before releasing them into a pattern. I can chip with guards or tackles. I can use more jumbo packages. I can utilize run-action. I can run false looks. I can run from him. I can run traps at him. I can manipulate calls based on front technique. I can do all of these things as an offensive coordinator and none of them would make me uncomfortable per se. I can work within all of those parameters and still call an effective game.

The overall point is that well-orchestrated offensive design can neutralize a pass-rusher and counter odd- or even-fronts that line up in certain techniques. Just like well-orchestrated offensive design can neutralize a great corner. Again, one pass-rusher or run-stuffer is one-seventh of a front seven. This isnít choosing between dominant defensive fronts and stacked secondaries. Itís choosing between Darrelle Revis and, for example, Haloti Ngata. I maintain thereís more people out there that can fill the latter role than the former and thatís the reason Revis is the smarter choice.

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Teams don't just have one stud WR now. If you have an average line and give the QB enough time, he'll find a receiver other than the one Revis is covering to throw to.
This is a fair point. But itís not just about shutting down number ones like Calvin or Andre or Fitzgerald. Itís about how flexible defensive coordinators can be because of Revisí presence. For example, New England doesnít have a true number one. Instead, the Patriots like to utilize multiple personnel groupings to isolate mismatches. Well, Revis can still slide over the slot and marginalize Welkerís effectiveness. You no longer have to dedicate safeties to him or fret over the linebackersí zone integrities. That grinds one gear in a well-oiled machine and frees up personnel for elsewhere. Now one of the safeties can bracket Gronkowski or Hernandez and the other can roll over their number two if need be. Extra rushers can pin their ears and get after it. You can scheme gut pressure better. And unwavering confidence in Revis enables all of this.

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That doesn't really matter. Teams still don't have to throw at Revis. And Revis probably won't be more valuable on short yardage situations than your interior defensive linemen that has to be accounted for on every single play. You can't just avoid a Ngata or Smith. You literally have to deal with him. Revis no. He can be avoided by not throwing his way. Or you can try to run the ball a bunch of times. Having a space eater up front that is disruptive in stopping the run and collapsing the pocket makes the entire defense better. And it doesn't matter if it's run/pass. They have to be accounted for at all times.
Avoiding Revis without exception makes an offense quite predictable though. A predictable offense is what defensive coordinators dream to scheme against. Youíre limiting the scope of the game plan before kick-off. You can do all of those things, sure, but the defense is going to be geared to stop all of those things, too.

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Because it doesn't matter as much as everything else I stated. This should go without saying. My entire post wasn't just about having a good pass rusher, if at all. I was talking about interior lineman. And I also brought up the scenarios of not having to throw at Revis and how his flexability is limited on situations like third and short and against a team that likes to pound you to death with the football. Again, guys like Smith or Ngata have to be accounted for on every play. Revis? No. I mean I guess you have to know where he is when you are passing so you know not to throw in his direction. But whether it's pass or run a guy like Ngata, Watt, or Smith poses a problem for you. And it doesn't matter the down or distance either. And if some teams have more than one good receiving threat, or like to spread out the ball with four and five receiver sets constantly then what?
First, thereís two annual contenders that can pound a defense to death. The Niners and the Texans. Perhaps the Panthers, but from different personnel. The Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Broncos, Chargers, Giants, Packers, Bears, Lions, Saints, and the Falcons arenít pounding someone to death. Iím not building for just two teams. Iím building for the division and then for the league. The league is pass-centric right now. Meaning Revis is ultra-valuable against those wide-open offenses.

Second, Revis is still an important third- and fourth-and-short defender. Obvious running downs donít exist for much of the league. A lot of the offenses that I listed above struggle to run the ball in those situations. And, to be quite honest, if the Patriots or Packers or Saints want to give the rock to their running back and take it out of the hands of their elite quarterback, Iím fine with that.

Third, thereís a trickle-down effect in coverage schemes. Because Revis handles ones, the amount of attention increases on those twos, threes, and fours.

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And this is really my point as well. I'm not arguing against Revis as being hands down, the most dominant player at a position that is extremely hard to dominate in this day and age. Revis absolutely belongs in a class of his own as shutdown CB. But he is only one of eleven. And a CB doesn't need to be dominant for a defense to be, as a whole. It isn't like a QB on offense, who really is the conductor of the train. 9 times out of 10, the play is won upfront before its won on the back-end. This isn't a most valuable defensive player debate. It's your personal preference on how you would build a dominate D. I think it has to start with in the trenches. They impact each and every play, as a whole more so than a CB. So what if there's tons of a good players around the league upfront? That doesn't take away from the value of what they do to control a game, snap after snap. And ask a team that doesn't have one, how easy they are to find.

Me, I want the ability to dictate downs. A CB can't do that. If I know that my front is so good that I can leave 6-7 in the box and still eliminate the run, I'm dictating to the offense that they basically have to pass on early downs REPEATEDLY to beat me. That also eliminates play-action, which in turns eliminates the need for my safeties to bite on it, which allows them that one extra second to react faster to support my CBs. It also means, eventually, they're going to abandon the run and now I've made you one-dimensional. And that makes you easier to defend. No matter how good against the run Revis is, he's essentially a non-factor versus the run unless its run outside the tackles, towards his side. Not the same as guys who shoot gaps and clog lanes on the regular.

There are just too many good skilled players on offense in today's game to say ONE elite CB will be enough of a game-changer for me. There are just two many teams with a myriad of weapons on offense, to allow one elite CB to dictate the outcome of a game. It doesn't equal to how a good, disruptive front can help your defense. To me, Ed Reed is the only exception for the reasons I mentioned above in a earlier post.
Your front isnít guaranteed to be that good though. This is one defender. One-seventh of a front seven. Whoever it is isnít going to accomplish that feat himself.

The amount of impact trench defenders in the league is pertinent to the question. You want to maximize value when team-building. You consider opportunity cost. Thereís a lot more odd- and even-front defenders that can be classified as protection-shifters. Thereís one person on the backend that can be classified as a true shutdown corner. So you take the scarcer commodity. At that point, youíre already spotted an advantage the rest of the league doesnít have.

For example, Group A has Darrelle Revis and Vince Wilfork. Group B has Haloti Ngata and Tramon Williams. Which group is better? Group A is. Youíve got a shutdown corner that grants backend freedom and an attention-grabbing defensive linemen. The other group has a scheme-diverse lineman, but a corner that isnít near as flexible. Thatís about as succinct as I can put it.

In general, Iím on-board with all of the front seven love. I get it and agree with a lot of the principles behind it. But Revis is a transcendent talent. He defies conventional wisdom.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:04 AM    (permalink
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I get all the Revis love, I do, but some of the arguements of how there are more good defensive linemen than good cbs doesn't really sit with me.

If most people were honest on this board and they had to pick one offensive player to build a team around, giving age, talent etc, they would likely pick Aaron Rodgers. Now when it comes to being far and away the best at an offensive position you probably have to look at Calvin Johnson at WR. For as good as Larry Fitzgerald has been and as good as AJ Green or Julio Jones may become, Calvin Johnson is easily the best WR and most gameplanned for WR in the NFL. The gap between Johnson and Fitzgerald is wider than the gap between Rodgers and Brady or Brees. However no one is going to build their team around Calvin Johnson, they are going to build it around a QB.

For me the same applies on defense. You want someone who has to be accounted for on every single play, be it a run or pass. For as much as the NFL is now a passing league, it is still a situational league.

In my offensive gameplan, if I have to make a concerted effort to run away from Justin Smith on first down then that limits what I can do. And the defense is going to know this which makes the LBs job easier. So if my defense can win on first down 80% of the time and leave 2nd and 9+ situations then we can do so much more than the offense.

Revis isn't going to be a massive help if the offense picks up 6 ypc every time they run the ball. You can draw up exotic blitz packages all day, but if I only need one yard for the first then it isn't much good.

Likewise in the passing game, if you have to constantly keep a TE in to double JPP or slant your protections towards Haloti Ngata it frees up other defensive linemen to make a play in one on one battles which also reduces the need to bring more than 4 guys on any given play.



This really is just a pick your favourite contest, but having a stud at prety much any position on defense allows you to play the numbers game. It all depends on where you want the advantage
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