2013 Bucs draft. - Page 2

Caddy · 09-16-2012, 04:29 PM

1. Cb
2. Cb
3. Cb

bucfan12 · 09-16-2012, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy

1. Cb
2. Cb
3. Cb

DLINE AND CB.

Did you not notice the lack of Pass-rush today? Wow!

bucfan12 · 09-23-2012, 02:45 PM

So, any takers for a new QB next year? Freeman still has not improved.

Legacy · 09-23-2012, 03:14 PM

Quarterback, LT and RT with some defensive depth.

bucfan12 · 09-23-2012, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy

Quarterback, LT and RT with some defensive depth.

Our O-line did a good job I thought. Freeman holds the ball too long and fails to pick up the blitz and adjust. That's on him. He knows it's coming. check into a play to get it out quicker.

I watch several teams and young QBs that handle those situations much better. Freeman just looks like garbage.

Legacy · 09-23-2012, 03:44 PM

The offensive line was awful today. They got no push in the running game and did little to help Freeman, even though he did hold onto the ball too long more often than not.

It's high time Bucs fans started to recognize that Donald Penn is not the answer at left tackle. He's highly overrated. And I think the Trueblood/Dotson rotation at RT speaks for itself.

bucfan12 · 09-23-2012, 03:50 PM

Man, you can't run it successfully if Freeman doesn't scare anyone throwing the ball.

Penn was solid today. No offensive line is great against a blitz. Thats the QBs job to get rid of it. Penn is a solid LT in this league. It's pointless to give up on him when hes in the top 12 and managed well against Ware, who's probably the best in the game.

Legacy · 09-23-2012, 03:52 PM

Penn is not a top 12 LT.

bucfan12 · 09-23-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy

Penn is not a top 12 LT.

Name me 12 better? You're judging him after 1 game.? First you say the oline was terrible, but Penn played very well. You think any LT will shut down Demarcus Ware through out a whole ball-game? The only sack he got today was when we put TE Danny Noble on him.

Legacy · 09-23-2012, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Name me 12 better? You're judging him after 1 game.? First you say the oline was terrible, but Penn played very well. You think any LT will shut down Demarcus Ware through out a whole ball-game? The only sack he got today was when we put TE Danny Noble on him.

In no particular order:

1) Jake Long
2) Joe Thomas
3) Jason Peters
4) Branden Albert
5) Eugene Monroe
6) D'Brickashaw Ferguson
7) Duane Brown
8) Andrew Whitworth
9) Joe Staley
10) Jordan Gross
11) Michael Roos
12) Trent Williams

And I'd also put him behind Matt Kalil and Michael Oher.

bucfan12 · 09-23-2012, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy

In no particular order:

1) Jake Long
2) Joe Thomas
3) Jason Peters
4) Branden Albert
5) Eugene Monroe
6) D'Brickashaw Ferguson
7) Duane Brown
8) Andrew Whitworth
9) Joe Staley
10) Jordan Gross
11) Michael Roos
12) Trent Williams

And I'd also put him behind Matt Kalil and Michael Oher.

Now these just made me LOL. Oher is a RT. They tried him out at LT and wasn't very good.

Trent Williams isn't even playing and already has been talk of "BUST". Monroe was just a top Draft pick, Thats it. Albert is solid but he's not better than Penn.

Man, Penn didn't even Give up a sack today and he sucks? LOL .

Legacy · 09-23-2012, 04:35 PM

Penn did give up a sack.

It was the play where Ware slapped the ball out of Freeman's hands and Penn fell on it just in front of the goal line.

Legacy · 09-23-2012, 04:39 PM

By the way:

- Brandon Albert: According to PFF, he's a solid run blocker and only yielded 13 pressures in 1,071 snaps.

- Eugene Monroe: Graded by PFF as the 6th best run blocker in the league last season. He did allow 9 sacks, but only allowed 12 pressure, which is good.

- Trent Williams: He gets a lot of crap, but his 2.03% pressure rate shows he does pretty well.

bucfan12 · 09-23-2012, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy

By the way:

- Brandon Albert: According to PFF, he's a solid run blocker and only yielded 13 pressures in 1,071 snaps.

- Eugene Monroe: Graded by PFF as the 6th best run blocker in the league last season. He did allow 9 sacks, but only allowed 12 pressure, which is good.

- Trent Williams: He gets a lot of crap, but his 2.03% pressure rate shows he does pretty well.

2 years ago, PFF grade EJ Biggers a top 10 CB. Enoguh said.

We know Penn's strength isn't run blocking but he's decent. Quit your doggin on Donald Penn. Last week him and Dotson did an excellent job against the Giants front 4. This week, the Cowboys are a team that relys on a 5-6 man pass rush that is usually really successful. Freeman did an awful job picking that up and reading it.

bucfan12 · 09-23-2012, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy

Penn did give up a sack.

It was the play where Ware slapped the ball out of Freeman's hands and Penn fell on it just in front of the goal line.

So 1 sack and he's garbage. Freeman held the ball too long most of the time.

Legacy · 09-23-2012, 06:45 PM

I've been on Penn's case for the last three years. This isn't a one game thing.

I simply don't post here often enough for you to know that.

bucfan12 · 09-23-2012, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy

I've been on Penn's case for the last three years. This isn't a one game thing.

I simply don't post here often enough for you to know that.

Well, you've been watching the wrong game. Penn was a pro-bowler in 2010, should have been in 2009. Last year he struggled, yes.

This year he's been very good. He went up against Demarcus Ware and they were blitzing. This game is on Freeman. A lot of those sacks he failed to pre-read the defense, he does a poor job of that.

Can we upgrade at LT? Sure, but I'd rather fix some more important positions like Franchise QB, CB, RG, and DL Depth before I address LT>

brasho · 09-29-2012, 02:14 PM

Okay, this debate is ridiculous.

First off regarding Penn, Ware did get a sack off of him... but what isn't being stated is that Freeman absolutely has to get rid of the ball or vacate the pocket to help his OL out. He isn't doing that. You can't hold the ball for 4 seconds on a 3 step drop... you just can't.

Secondly regarding Freeman, this is a new offense. EVERYBODY that is a true student of football knows that it takes nearly half a season for a QB (and the entire offense), especially a young QB, to assimilate, grasp, and truly perform in a new offense. Sullivan's offense is nothing like any of the Buc players have been accustomed to under Olsen or Gruden. It's not the WCO. I hate Freeman's performances, feel in the pocket, inability to use his legs, and inaccuracy as much as everybody else... but I also know that history strongly indicates that it takes at least 4-5 weeks for offenses to get used to new offensive systems.

From the outside looking in, Freeman sucks.. but there's way more to it than Freeman. It's playcalling, receivers getting open, AND Freeman. But right now he is still learning the offense. Once he gets the offense, and the others to too, their instinct and athletic ability will come through. One thing is for sure, this isn't Dungy's offense. Schiano holds everybody accountable, unlike Dungy who gave the offense a free pass during his stay in Tampa (according to players).

brasho · 09-29-2012, 02:23 PM

What are the Buccaneer needs right now?

DL-this team needs pass rushers. Even with Bowers and Clayborn hopefully coming back 100% next season and Bennet hopefully being re-signed, Bennet, Clayborn, and McCoy played 79 of 80-something plays against the Giants. The Bucs have little faith in their reserves. A strong DL usually relies on a rotation, and considering the average game features 60-65 plays a game and most starting DL play 40-45 plays... The Bucs trio got two games worth of snaps in one game against the Giants. Depth is sorely needed.

CB-even if Talib comes back, quality CBs are needed.

TE-I doubt the TE will be a featured part of the Sullivan offense, even if Gronk was that TE, but we need a couple of guys that can really block. Stocker, Clark, and Noble just aren't getting it done in the running game.

As for O-line, depth would be nice but not overly necessary. I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see Dotson and Penn switch sides, which would force Penn to swallow some pride, which he wouldn't need to do if he didn't swallow so many calories.

WR-A true #3 WR would be nice. Somebody that has speed and can eventually supplant Mike Williams, who seems to have trouble separating despite single coverage this season. A burner would be a nice complement to VJax.

I think we're set at LB for a little while. I would actually be surprised if we didn't see Dakoda Watson on the field a lot more now that Clayborn is gone. I look for Teo-Neisheim to play most running downs and for Watson to play the RDE on passing downs. And if it doesn't happen... well, it should!

bucfan12 · 09-29-2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brasho

Okay, this debate is ridiculous.

Secondly regarding Freeman, this is a new offense. EVERYBODY that is a true student of football knows that it takes nearly half a season for a QB (and the entire offense), especially a young QB, to assimilate, grasp, and truly perform in a new offense. Sullivan's offense is nothing like any of the Buc players have been accustomed to under Olsen or Gruden. It's not the WCO. I hate Freeman's performances, feel in the pocket, inability to use his legs, and inaccuracy as much as everybody else... but I also know that history strongly indicates that it takes at least 4-5 weeks for offenses to get used to new offensive systems.

From the outside looking in, Freeman sucks.. but there's way more to it than Freeman. It's playcalling, receivers getting open, AND Freeman. But right now he is still learning the offense. Once he gets the offense, and the others to too, their instinct and athletic ability will come through. One thing is for sure, this isn't Dungy's offense. Schiano holds everybody accountable, unlike Dungy who gave the offense a free pass during his stay in Tampa (according to players).

I know it's a new offense, but I'm looking at the ability to read defenses. He doesn't throw on anticipation. He waits for his WR to come open, not throw him open.

As Rob Ryan stated in the pre-game interview, when they watched all the tape they had on Josh Freeman, they said he looks to his first read and stays on that one side and fails to see the rest of the field. He doesn't go through his progressions. I've seen the film breakdown from Steve Whites Blog. There were many times he's staring down Luke Stocker and Vincent Jackson and Dallas Clark on different plays where 2 other Reciever Options were Open. One was with Mike Williams beating his man on a deep crossing route with about 2 steps and no Safety over the top. Yet he's staring Dwon Luke Stocker on a corner route for 3 seconds and makes that throw.

Look, I understand it's a new offense, but these are flaws that have nothing to do with the scheme. He's not seeing the field and he's never had the accuracy stating back to college.

All off-season we hear he's this hard-worker and constantly watching film and working with coaches. I just don't think, by his 4th season, he just doesn't get it. Doesn't do a good job with the blitz either.

bucfan12 · 09-29-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brasho

What are the Buccaneer needs right now?

DL-this team needs pass rushers. Even with Bowers and Clayborn hopefully coming back 100% next season and Bennet hopefully being re-signed, Bennet, Clayborn, and McCoy played 79 of 80-something plays against the Giants. The Bucs have little faith in their reserves. A strong DL usually relies on a rotation, and considering the average game features 60-65 plays a game and most starting DL play 40-45 plays... The Bucs trio got two games worth of snaps in one game against the Giants. Depth is sorely needed.

CB-even if Talib comes back, quality CBs are needed.

TE-I doubt the TE will be a featured part of the Sullivan offense, even if Gronk was that TE, but we need a couple of guys that can really block. Stocker, Clark, and Noble just aren't getting it done in the running game.

As for O-line, depth would be nice but not overly necessary. I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see Dotson and Penn switch sides, which would force Penn to swallow some pride, which he wouldn't need to do if he didn't swallow so many calories.

WR-A true #3 WR would be nice. Somebody that has speed and can eventually supplant Mike Williams, who seems to have trouble separating despite single coverage this season. A burner would be a nice complement to VJax.

I think we're set at LB for a little while. I would actually be surprised if we didn't see Dakoda Watson on the field a lot more now that Clayborn is gone. I look for Teo-Neisheim to play most running downs and for Watson to play the RDE on passing downs. And if it doesn't happen... well, it should!

I think our needs are as followed:

1. QB: It's early, but I honestly think, going into his 4th year, the flaws Freeman has are very hard for him to break. They were the same negative factors that many had him being a risky 1st round selection back in 2009. If he hasn't broken them after 4 years in the NFL, I can't see him progressing on them.

2. CB: I think we have a huge decision to make between Bennett and Talib. Honestly, I think the Front Office re-signs Michael Bennett and lets Talib walk. Talib is good, but he's a 2nd tier CB. He gets burned a lot. I think we go another route as he's replaceable.

3. DL Depth: This I 100% Agree with you. It all sounds nice on paper with McCoy/Bowers/Bennett/Clayborn/Miller/Gibson. But 3 of those guys have had injury issues now. I see us using a mid-round pick for this or Free Agency. I think Clayborn's injury was just bad-luck on the play. But he should recover fine. If Bowers comes back, he comes in a rotational role. Retaining Miller is key, but we could use another solid DT.

4. OG: Davin Joseph tore his patella Tendon. That's a tough injury to come back from. I see us using a 2nd/early 3rd day pick on a G for depth and possible replacement.

5. RB: Unless Blount does something amazing, I can't see him back in Tampa next year. We need someone to take the pressure off Martin. Maybe it's Michael Smith, but RB depth is key in this league.

6. TE: I think this could be addressed in FA. But I do agree, but the lack of quality depth in the draft doesn't make it a need to reach on.

bigbuc · 10-05-2012, 08:06 PM

I think we need a Lotulelei or Jarvis Jones.

I would say if we end up with the 1st overall pick it has to be Geno Smith because Freeman would be most likely the reason we would be picking that high. But I think Free will turn it around... Hes shown that he can be a top 10 guy.

bigbuc · 10-14-2012, 05:16 PM

We need a TE bad.

Caddy · 10-14-2012, 05:28 PM

We are the Giants. We better get used to using people like Kevin Boss because it's what will happen.

Legacy · 10-14-2012, 06:59 PM

We need a RT more. Dotson is an improvement over Trueblood, but he got manhandled several times today, including letting Tamba Hali blow right past him on the play where Freeman fumbled.

On a brighter note, Jamon Meredith looked pretty decent at RG, which is about as good as can be expected. Hopefully he can continue to not suck.

Oh, and I think we can pencil in CB as a need. I'll be shocked if the Bucs bring Talib back after his most recent character issue.