New England Patriots Discussion

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

From a prospect model, I liked his tools and size but other than that I wasn't overly thrilled with the Dowling pick.

I wasn't either, but then again I wanted DaQuan Bowers

At least I was right about wanting Murray instead of Vereen.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

the Pats have a horrendous record with second rounders with the exception of Vollmer in the last few years and I would hate for another two talented players to fall by the wayside

+Gronk.

But yeah, when you throw in Darius Butler too... ouch.

The part about being in Belichick's dog house makes sense. Dowling shows well on the field, but has a hard time finding it.

[Nalej]

Random rant. **** Ninkovich. He's terrible.

[Don Vito]

Originally Posted by Nalej

Random rant. **** Ninkovich. He's terrible.

I've been a ninkovich apologist of sorts, but he was brutal against the ravens. He was getting popped and knocked back all game by linemen, tight ends, leach, and rice. He's always been more of a guy you would want to keep around for depth he has just been thrust into a way bigger role And has been there too long. I understand he setzz teh edgezz but he hasn't been doing too much of that, and while it wasn't just him getting neat by Baltimore he was definitely getting consistently whooped. I have always taken Nink for what he is, but even that is looking shaky now

[AntoinCD]

I really think he is a better LB than down end. He struggles to set the edge when he has to take the tackle on straight on. He was awful against Baltimore. That left end spot is a big hole to fill in to make this front 7 complete

[Matthew Jones]

Here's some salary cap data I've compiled which I thought you guys may find interesting:

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS 2013 SALARY CAP DATA

Notes:

• All salary cap information is courtesy of www.nyjetscap.com except where noted (see below notes.)

• The salary cap for 2012 is $120.6 million; for the purpose of this study, that number is projected to remain flat next year.

• RB Brandon Bolden will be an exclusive rights free agent who is listed as having a cap figure of $485,000, although the veteran minimum is actually $490,000. TE Jake Ballard will be an exclusive rights free agent (despite being listed as a restricted free agent on Rotoworld), and the minimum contract for a player of his experience is $715,000. DT Terrell McClain is also an exclusive rights free agent, and the minimum contract for a player of his experience is $490,000. CB Sterling Moore is an exclusive rights free agent, and the minimum contract for a player of his experience is $525,000. Each of New England's exclusive rights free agents (Brandon Bolden, Jake Ballard, Terrell McClain, and Sterling Moore) is projected to return.

• DT Kyle Love is listed as having a cap figure of $1,100,000, but that number has been changed to $2,050,000 (Love signed a two-year, $3.09 million deal according to Rotoworld, and received a base salary of $540,000 in 2012 along with a $500,000 signing bonus.)

• New England's restricted free agents (TE Michael Hoomanawanui and ILB Dane Fletcher) are not projected to return because of the difficult in projecting their tender amounts. Based on 2012, the restricted free agent tenders were $2.742 million (first round), $1.927 million (second round), $1.26 million (original draft status - fifth-round compensation for Hoomanawanui, none for Fletcher, who went undrafted.) Both players would likely receive the $1.26 million low tender.

Depth Chart/Salary Data by Position:

Quarterback:

1. Tom Brady ($21,800,000)

2. Ryan Mallett ($803,953)

Total: $22,603,953 (18.74%)

Free agents: N/A

Practice squad: N/A

Running Back:

1. Stevan Ridley ($805,500)

2. Shane Vereen ($943,950)

3. Brandon Bolden ($490,000) (ERFA)*

4. Jeff Demps ($483,666)

Total: $2,723,116 (2.26%)

Free agents: Danny Woodhead

Practice squad: N/A

Fullback:

1. Spencer Larsen ($875,000)

Total: $875,000 (0.73%)

Free agents: Tony Fiammetta

Practice squad: James Develin

Wide Receiver:

1. Brandon Lloyd ($4,500,000)

2. Matthew Slater ($1,966,666)

Total: $6,466,666 (5.36%)

Free agents: Deion Branch, Julian Edelman, Wes Welker

Practice squad: Greg Salas

Tight End (Y):

1. Rob Gronkowski ($2,700,000)

2. Daniel Fells ($1,658,333)

3. Jake Ballard ($715,000) (ERFA)

4. Brad Herman ($480,833)

Total: $5,554,166 (4.01%)

Free agents: Michael Hoomanawanui (RFA)

Practice squad: N/A

Tight End (F):

1. Aaron Hernandez ($4,073,000)

Total: $4,073,000 (3.38%)

Free agents: Visanthe Shiancoe

Practice squad: N/A

Offensive Tackle:

1. Nate Solder ($2,329,225)

2. Marcus Cannon ($637,687)

3. Markus Zusevics ($484,333)

4. Kyle Hix ($483,000)

Total: $3,934,245 (3.26%)

Free agents: Sebastian Vollmer

Practice squad: Matt Kopa

Offensive Guard:

1. Logan Mankins ($10,000,000)

2. Dan Connolly ($3,333,333)

3. Nick McDonald ($630,000)

Total: $13,963,333 (11.58%)

Free agents: Donald Thomas, Brian Waters

Practice squad: Jeremiah Warren

Center:

1. Ryan Wendell ($1,015,000)

Total: $1,015,000 (0.84%)

Free agents: Jamey Richard

Practice squad: Thomas Austin

Defensive Tackle:

1. Vince Wilfork ($10,608,120)

2. Kyle Love ($2,050,000)*

3. Brandon Deaderick ($593,195)

4. Terrell McClain ($490,000) (ERFA)

Total: $13,251,315 (10.99%)

Free agents: Ron Brace, Myron Pryor

Practice squad: Marcus Forston

Defensive End:

1. Chandler Jones ($1,857,613)

2. Rob Ninkovich (1,666,668)

3. Jermaine Cunningham ($913,120)

4. Justin Francis ($482,333)

5. Jake Bequette ($619,950)

Total: $5,539,684 (4.59%)

Free agents: Trevor Scott

Practice squad: N/A

Outside Linebacker:

1. Jerod Mayo ($5,600,000)

2. Dont'a Hightower (1,755,455)

Total: $7,355,455 (6.10%)

Free agents: Tracy White

Practice squad: Jeff Tarpinian

Inside Linebacker:

1. Brandon Spikes ($823,120)

Total: $823,120 (0.68%)

Free agents: Dane Fletcher (RFA), Niko Koutouvides

Practice squad: N/A

Cornerback:

1. Devin McCourty ($1,853,120)

2. Sterling Moore ($525,000) (ERFA)*

3. Ras-I Dowling ($1,446,572)

4. Alfonzo Dennard ($494,462)

Total: $4,319,154 (3.58%)

Free agents: Will Allen, Kyle Arrington, Marquice Cole

Practice squad: Malcolm Williams

Safety:

1. Steve Gregory ($2,183,333)

2. Tavon Wilson ($958,613)

3. Nate Ebner ($504,150)

Total: $3,646,096 (3.02%)

Free agents: Josh Barrett, Patrick Chung

Practice squad: N/A

Kicker:

1. Stephen Gostkowski ($3,408,120)

Total: $3,408,120 (2.83%)

Free agents: N/A

Practice squad: N/A

Punter:

1. Zoltan Mesko ($629,934)

Total: $629,934 (0.52%)

Free agents: N/A

Practice squad: N/A

Long Snapper:

1. Danny Aiken ($555,000)

Total: $555,000 (0.46%)

Free agents: N/A

Practice squad: N/A

Dead Money:

$4,152,668 ($3.44%)

Free Space:

~$16,437,780 (13.63%)

[Nalej]

I like it. All minus that 1.7 Mill on Ninko

[Matthew Jones]

What stood out to me was Connolly's status as the eighth highest-paid player on the team. Unfortunately, over $2 million of his cap figure is guaranteed, so there isn't a while lot to be gained by replacing him. At a glance, Steve Gregory, Matthew Slater, and Daniel Fells seem overpaid, although New England has guaranteed them all some money as well. The best way to save cap room next year without assuming dead money would probably be to cut guys like Fells ($991,000 in savings), Larsen ($750,000), Deaderick ($583,120), Hix ($480,000), and Herman ($479,166); however, even if those players all get released it's still likely that the team next year will look very similar to this year's squad. Most of New England's starters are returning and they won't have enough money to make a big splash in free agency.

[Jvig43]

I love you RoP for how much work you put into this, very nice work buddy.

[Matthew Jones]

Just a minor correction to make: the Kyle Love contract originally listed by NYJetsCap is correct, and that other million dollars or so is incentive-based.

[Don Vito]

I would be so lost with our cap and everything financial if it weren't for you ROP

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

What stood out to me was Connolly's status as the eighth highest-paid player on the team. Unfortunately, over $2 million of his cap figure is guaranteed, so there isn't a while lot to be gained by replacing him. At a glance, Steve Gregory, Matthew Slater, and Daniel Fells seem overpaid, although New England has guaranteed them all some money as well. The best way to save cap room next year without assuming dead money would probably be to cut guys like Fells ($991,000 in savings), Larsen ($750,000), Deaderick ($583,120), Hix ($480,000), and Herman ($479,166); however, even if those players all get released it's still likely that the team next year will look very similar to this year's squad. Most of New England's starters are returning and they won't have enough money to make a big splash in free agency.

There are only 2 years left on Wilfork/Brady's deals respectively, and they both have high cap numbers. Signing them to 2 year or so extensions could lower the numbers for the upcoming year and give the Pats some wiggle room. I think they'd both take the security, and I'd be comfortable enough with their performance to give them those deals. The cap should jump a bit after the next TV deal, and the Pats don't have any huge contracts looming over the horizon, so I think it could be worthwhile to pursue that option. Maybe that would open up an opportunity to get a young guy like Sean Smith who could help out the defense at a position of need.

I also wouldn't cut Deaderick, he's a steal at the price we have him signed at, and unless we draft a stud DT it'll be hard to get a better value for that kind of money.

[Matthew Jones]

Since we just took a look at New England's roster for next season and their salary cap figures, below is a list of some impending free agents that caught my eye. This isn't a "best of" list, just some players who I think may be decent investments. There are a few star players (Ed Reed, Greg Jennings, Dwight Freeney, etc.) but a bunch of low-risk investments as well (who doesn't like bargain hunting?) I tried to include any former Patriots as well, regardless of how likely they were to return. All former Patriots are in blue, and players expected to sign large contracts are in red.

Arizona Cardinals:

RB La’Rod Stephens-Howling
OG Rich Ohrnberger
S James Sanders

Atlanta Falcons:

OT Sam Baker
DE Lawrence Sidbury
CB Brent Grimes
S William Moore

Baltimore Ravens:

DE Arthur Jones*
LB Dannell Ellerbe
LB Sergio Kindle*
LB Paul Kruger
CB Cary Williams
S Sean Considine
S James Ihedigbo
S Ed Reed

Buffalo Bills:

OG Andy Levitre
LB Bryan Scott
CB Leodis McKelvin

Carolina Panthers:

WR Louis Murphy
OG Mike Pollak
CB Captain Munnerlyn

Chicago Bears:

OT Jonathan Scott
OT Chris Williams
OG Chris Spencer
DT Amobi Okoye
DE Cheta Ozougwu
CB Kelvin Hayden
CB D.J. Moore

Cincinnati Bengals:

FB Brian Leonard
WR Brandon Tate
DT Wallace Gilberry
DE Michael Johnson
LB Manny Lawson
CB Adam Jones

Cleveland Browns:

WR Josh Cribbs
WR Mohamed Massaquoi
TE Dan Gronkowski
TE Alex Smith
TE Ben Watson
S Ray Ventrone

Dallas Cowboys:

RB Felix Jones
WR Kevin Ogletree
LB Anthony Spencer
CB Mike Jenkins

Denver Broncos:

FB Chris Gronkowski
C Dan Koppen
CB Tony Carter
CB Tracy Porter
S David Bruton
S Jim Leonhard

Detroit Lions:

RB Kevin Smith
WR Kassim Osgood
OT Corey Hilliard
DT Sammie Lee Hill
DE Cliff Avril
DE Lawrence Jackson
CB Chris Houston
S Louis Delmas

Green Bay Packers:

RB Cedric Benson
WR Greg Jennings
CB Sam Shields*

Houston Texans:

RB Justin Forsett
TE James Casey
OT Ryan Harris
LB Connor Barwin
CB Brice McCain
S Glover Quin
KR Trindon Holliday

Indianapolis Colts:

RB Mewelde Moore
WR Donnie Avery
WR Austin Collie
DT Fili Moala
DE Dwight Freeney
CB Darius Butler
CB Justin King
CB Jerraud Powers

Jacksonville Jaguars:

FB Greg Jones
WR Maurice Stovall
OG Eben Britton
DE George Selvie
CB Rashean Mathis

Kansas City Chiefs:

RB Peyton Hillis
WR Dwayne Bowe
TE Steve Maneri
OT Brandon Albert
OG Ryan Lilja
DT Glenn Dorsey
LB Brandon Siler
S Travis Daniels
S Abram Elam

Miami Dolphins:

WR Anthony Armstrong*
WR Brian Hartline
TE Anthony Fasano
DT Randy Starks
CB Sean Smith

Minnesota Vikings:

WR Devin Aromashodu
WR Greg Camarillo
WR Jerome Simpson
LB Jasper Brinkley
LB Tyrone McKenzie

New Orleans Saints:

WR Courtney Roby
TE Daniel Graham
DT Sedrick Ellis
LB Barrett Ruud

New York Giants:

WR Ramses Barden
WR Victor Cruz*
WR Domenik Hixon
OT William Beatty
S Kenny Phillips

New York Jets:

WR Chaz Schilens
OG Brandon Moore
LB Bryan Thomas
S Yeremiah Bell

Oakland Raiders:

QB Matt Leinart
RB Mike Goodson
FB Owen Schmitt
WR Derek Hagan
OT Khalif Barnes
DE Andre Carter
DE Matt Shaughnessy
CB Phillip Adams
CB Ronald Bartell
CB Joselio Hanson

Philadelphia Eagles:

DT Derek Landri
DE Darryl Tapp
CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie

Pittsburgh Steelers:

WR Mike Wallace*
TE Leonard Pope
DT Al Woods
CB DeMarcus Van Dyke
S Will Allen

San Diego Chargers:

RB Jackie Battle
RB Ronnie Brown
TE Dante Rosario
CB Antoine Cason
CB Quentin Jammer

San Francisco 49ers:

RB Brandon Jacobs
WR Ted Ginn Jr.
WR Randy Moss
DT Ricky Jean-Francois

Seattle Seahawks:

WR Braylon Edwards
C Max Unger
DT Jason Jones
CB Marcus Trufant

St. Louis Rams:

WR Danny Amendola
WR Brandon Gibson
WR Steve Smith
OT Quinn Ojinnaka
CB Bradley Fletcher
S Craig Dahl

Tampa Bay Buccaneers:

TE Dallas Clark
DT Roy Miller
DE Michael Bennett
CB Aqib Talib
S Ronde Barber

Tennessee Titans:

TE Jared Cook
DT Sen’Derrick Marks
CB Terrence Wheatley

Washington Redskins:

RB Ryan Grant
OT Tyler Polumbus
CB Cedric Griffin
KR Brandon Banks

[AntoinCD]

The two guys on that list that jump off the page at me are Levitre and Max Unger. I would absolutely love either or both of those guys

[Matthew Jones]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

There are only 2 years left on Wilfork/Brady's deals respectively, and they both have high cap numbers. Signing them to 2 year or so extensions could lower the numbers for the upcoming year and give the Pats some wiggle room. I think they'd both take the security, and I'd be comfortable enough with their performance to give them those deals. The cap should jump a bit after the next TV deal, and the Pats don't have any huge contracts looming over the horizon, so I think it could be worthwhile to pursue that option. Maybe that would open up an opportunity to get a young guy like Sean Smith who could help out the defense at a position of need.

I also wouldn't cut Deaderick, he's a steal at the price we have him signed at, and unless we draft a stud DT it'll be hard to get a better value for that kind of money.

Interesting thoughts, although I'm not sure Deaderick is really very valuable. He's only played 29 snaps so far this season (although he did miss last week's game with an injury), and played very poorly in 2011 when we moved to the four-man front in the miserable Deaderick/Shaun Ellis platoon. I think he'd be a better fit somewhere else as a defensive end in a one-gap 3-4; he's a little bit undersized for the 4-3 defensive tackle spot and not explosive enough for a 4-3 end.

[Matthew Jones]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

The two guys on that list that jump off the page at me are Levitre and Max Unger. I would absolutely love either or both of those guys

Here are some of the guys that stood out to me:

RB Peyton Hillis (KC) - absolutely annihilated us when he played in Cleveland
FB Greg Jones (JAC) - surprisingly good blocker and can run the ball a little bit as well
FB Brian Leonard (CIN) - running back/fullback tweener who is also a pretty good receiver
WR Danny Amendola (STL) - could potentially replace Wes Welker and add some youth
WR Randy Moss (SF) - pipe dream, but Moss is one of my all-time favorite Patriots
WR Louis Murphy (CAR) - stretches the field vertically, played under Urban Meyer at Florida
TE James Casey (HOU) - very versatile receiver who would make a perfect backup "F" TE
TE Steve Maneri (KC) - jumbo tight end who can also play a little bit of offensive tackle
OT Ryan Harris (HOU) - Patriots lack a true backup at left tackle, could use a reserve
OG Mike Pollak (CAR) - can play guard and center, very intelligent swing backup possibility
DT Wallace Gilberry (CIN) - reminiscent of Jarvis Green, was a good rotational rusher
DT Jason Jones (SEA) - defensive tackle/end tweener, mulligan on Jonathan Fanene
DE Michael Bennett (TB) - simply one of the most underrated players in the league
DE Lawrence Jackson (DET) - great run defender, not very heavily utilized in Detroit
DE Lawrence Sidbury (ATL) - stuck behind Abraham, Biermann, Edwards, etc. in Atlanta
CB Antoine Cason (SD) - has been very inconsistent, may sign for relatively cheap
FS Jim Leonhard (DEN) - reliable, can also return punts and play on special teams

[cmarq83]

Love Hillis, he's perfect for us. He's a good receiver out of the backfield and can really pick up tough yards between the tackles. He'd be a great compliment to Ridley.

Also like Louis Murphy as well.

[descendency]

I wonder if the Rams would take a Welker for Amendola trade...

[Jvig43]

An older, much more expensive and has a serious knee injury on his record version of Amendola? I highly doubt they'd go for it, but I'd be all for it. So logn as he can haul in important passes to keep drives going.

[Matthew Jones]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

An older, much more expensive and has a serious knee injury on his record version of Amendola? I highly doubt they'd go for it, but I'd be all for it. So logn as he can haul in important passes to keep drives going.

I don't really see why the Rams would accept the deal either. Welker is the better player but Amendola is younger and they'd have to extend either one. It's not like Welker has a cap-friendly deal and the Rams wouldn't be able to re-sign Amendola for the same amount of money or less.

By the way, does anyone need a new sig? Feel free to use this Chandler Jones one I attempted, or I could try to make another if anyone has a specific player in mind:

[Nalej]

L. Mankins Out via Bleacher Report

Just looked into it... apparently it's from a tweet from Tom E. Curran claiming Mankins didn't travel with the team to Buffalo.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by Nalej

L. Mankins Out via Bleacher Report

Just looked into it... apparently it's from a tweet from Tom E. Curran claiming Mankins didn't travel with the team to Buffalo.

That's rough, especially against Dareus and Williams. Everybody on the line needs to bring their A-game tommorow.

[descendency]

Solder struggling, Mankins out, Connolly with a concussion problem, and Vollmer with back issues...

Did Gisele take out a life insurance policy recently???

[Jvig43]

Funny how when we use Gronk and Ridley good things happen. Take note McDaniels you ****.

[Don Vito]

Just wanted to say Brandon Bolden is pretty ******* good. That is all.