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Old 10-04-2012, 01:46 PM    (permalink
MassNole
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In hindsight the Niners would trade down and draft Aaron Rodgers. I shudder to think.
Until Harbaugh became his HC, Aaron Rodgers would have been an abortion of a #1 overall pick for the 49ers. He is the text book example of why it is important for a QB to be able to sit a couple years and learn the offense before being thrown to the wolves, especially with the previous history of Tedford QBs in the NFL who started as rookies. IIRC, the Packers were so unimpressed early on that taking Matt Leinart the next year was on the table. Obviously Rodgers has proven everyone wrong, but had he gone to San Francisco then he wouldn't be close to the QB he is now.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Hey guys, he's playing against Utah tonight.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Hey guys, he's playing against Utah tonight.
Hopefully Khaled Holmes plays so Matt can stay upright. My guess is a big game or two and nobody will be talking his demise.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Hopefully Khaled Holmes plays so Matt can stay upright. My guess is a big game or two and nobody will be talking his demise.
This season FBS QBs through 3 games vs. Utah are 58/93, for 748 yards, 7 TDs and 1 INT, for a QB rating of 152.6. Barkley having a big game should be expected vs. their sieve pass defense.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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This season FBS QBs through 3 games vs. Utah are 58/93, for 748 yards, 7 TDs and 1 INT, for a QB rating of 152.6. Barkley having a big game should be expected vs. their sieve pass defense.
No doubt. I'm looking forward to the Holmes vs Loteuleli matchup.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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Hopefully Khaled Holmes plays so Matt can stay upright. My guess is a big game or two and nobody will be talking his demise.
I don't think it's as much Khaled vs Starlite 1on1, but the whole line against theirs. I don't think Khaled went 1on1 with him too much last year.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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In hindsight the Niners would trade down and draft Aaron Rodgers. I shudder to think.
No one wanted to trade up. Back then the first 3-5 picks were almost untradable, except if there was a franchise QB in the pool.

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Old 10-04-2012, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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In Matt Ryan's defense, he wasn't surrounded by NFL caliber talent at running back or receiver...Barkley is playing with the best wide receiver duo in the entire nation
yeah but in contrast he came from a weak ass ACC and still threw under 60 percent his senior year, lost 3 games, and threw under 50 percent 4 times including his bowl game.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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In Matt Ryan's defense, he wasn't surrounded by NFL caliber talent at running back or receiver...Barkley is playing with the best wide receiver duo in the entire nation
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yeah but in contrast he came from a weak ass ACC and still threw under 60 percent his senior year, lost 3 games, and threw under 50 percent 4 times including his bowl game.
Zobel'd. ...
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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yeah but in contrast he came from a weak ass ACC and still threw under 60 percent his senior year, lost 3 games, and threw under 50 percent 4 times including his bowl game.
He forced an absurd number of throws his senior year at BC.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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This season FBS QBs through 3 games vs. Utah are 58/93, for 748 yards, 7 TDs and 1 INT, for a QB rating of 152.6. Barkley having a big game should be expected vs. their sieve pass defense.
Yeah, if Barkley plays well it doesn't really count because Utah's defense sucks. The only games that count are when Barkley's box score doesn't look pretty. That's how the pros scout QBs. l
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:27 PM    (permalink
MassNole
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Yeah, if Barkley plays well it doesn't really count because Utah's defense sucks. The only games that count are when Barkley's box score doesn't look pretty. That's how the pros scout QBs. l
Every FBS QB that Utah has faced has had a terrific day and none of them have much NFL potential at this point. If he has a good day, that is what a possible #1 pick is supposed to do. It certainly won't prove he's fixed whatever is wrong with him this season or that he is back, it would simply be him doing what he should. Now if he goes for like 600 yards and 8 TDs, we can talk. But say 350 and 4 TDs is basically what he should do against their efense.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, if Barkley plays well it doesn't really count because Utah's defense sucks. The only games that count are when Barkley's box score doesn't look pretty. That's how the pros scout QBs. l
So Geno Smith's numbers mean nothing because he's faced garbage defenses too, right?
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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So Geno Smith's numbers mean nothing because he's faced garbage defenses too, right?
Basically. Last week's game was simply pathetic, he had 5-6 seconds to throw and the Baylor secondary is at a bad FCS level talent wise. Those numbers are eye popping but translate to the NFL about as well as those of Andre Ward and David Klingler.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, if Barkley plays well it doesn't really count because Utah's defense sucks. The only games that count are when Barkley's box score doesn't look pretty. That's how the pros scout QBs. l
Norv Turner has said that when he scouts QBs for the draft, he specifically requests cutups of 3rd down situations, man coverage, blitzes, and throws under pressure. Basically, he wants to see the QB in difficult, adverse situations.

Nobody cares about completing a bubble screens. I charted Barkley's games vs Stanford and Oregon last year myself. 50% of his throws travel through the air 5 yards or fewer beyond the LOS. Close to another 50% of those passes don't even travel past the LOS. ESPN Stats and Info released today that he's 3-15 on passes of 20 yards or further. I've cut most of his games up this year and had other people chart him. More of the same.

That's not to say I hate Barkley as a QB prospect or think he shouldn't be drafted in the first round. He's not Mark Sanchez. On the actual intermediate/downfield dropback pass stuff USC does, he's making some pretty sophisticated reads. He's responsible for a lot of stuff at the LOS - and all the screen stuff I was talking about is actually built into their gun game. So while the throws aren't necessarily difficult, he's still responsible for processing a lot of info pre-snap. I just don't think he's a god-tier QB prospect (and there's nothing wrong with that).

Take Andy Dalton, for instance. Great QB, much better than I thought he'd be. That being said, he went to an amazing situation. Still not sure how good he'd be in a piss poor situation like Cleveland, Jacksonville, or New York, but I definitely think he'd make the talent around him better, as opposed to being wholly reliant on his supporting cast. I'm not quite saying that Barkley is, but his physical limitations are concerning. That being said, the book isn't written either. Still a lot of games to be played.

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Old 10-04-2012, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Every FBS QB that Utah has faced has had a terrific day and none of them have much NFL potential at this point. If he has a good day, that is what a possible #1 pick is supposed to do. It certainly won't prove he's fixed whatever is wrong with him this season or that he is back, it would simply be him doing what he should. Now if he goes for like 600 yards and 8 TDs, we can talk. But say 350 and 4 TDs is basically what he should do against their efense.
Geno Smith threw for all those yards against a garbage defense - ranked something like 110 in the country. It also helped the fact that Baylor runs the same uptempo fast scoring offense so it was a back and forth track meet - basically a perfect storm to put up those numbers. He was impressive but put the whole performance in context.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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Geno Smith threw for all those yards against a garbage defense - ranked something like 110 in the country. It also helped the fact that Baylor runs the same uptempo fast scoring offense so it was a back and forth track meet - basically a perfect storm to put up those numbers. He was impressive but put the whole performance in context.
Matt Barkley doing that in a Pro Style offense against a team with one stud DL and at least the rest are solid shows a lot more than Smith doing it against a defense where I doubt there is one NFL player. Barkley won't have 5, 6, up to 7 seconds to throw the ball and for routes to develop. Geno Smith's day was a real life video game, plain and simple.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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Geno Smith threw for all those yards against a garbage defense - ranked something like 110 in the country. It also helped the fact that Baylor runs the same uptempo fast scoring offense so it was a back and forth track meet - basically a perfect storm to put up those numbers. He was impressive but put the whole performance in context.
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Matt Barkley doing that in a Pro Style offense against a team with one stud DL and at least the rest are solid shows a lot more than Smith doing it against a defense where I doubt there is one NFL player. Barkley won't have 5, 6, up to 7 seconds to throw the ball and for routes to develop. Geno Smith's day was a real life video game, plain and simple.
Isolate the QB.
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:10 AM    (permalink
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Until Harbaugh became his HC, Aaron Rodgers would have been an abortion of a #1 overall pick for the 49ers. He is the text book example of why it is important for a QB to be able to sit a couple years and learn the offense before being thrown to the wolves, especially with the previous history of Tedford QBs in the NFL who started as rookies. IIRC, the Packers were so unimpressed early on that taking Matt Leinart the next year was on the table. Obviously Rodgers has proven everyone wrong, but had he gone to San Francisco then he wouldn't be close to the QB he is now.
Really??
This is news to me.
Rodgers was NOT expected to come into GB and unseat Brett Favre as a rookie or 2nd year pro. He was a value pick, their potential QB of the future. I never heard or read anything that said the Packers weren't thrilled with everything Rodgers did in camp and in preseason waiting his turn.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:14 AM    (permalink
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Really??
This is news to me.
Rodgers was NOT expected to come into GB and unseat Brett Favre as a rookie or 2nd year pro. He was a value pick, their potential QB of the future. I never heard or read anything that said the Packers weren't thrilled with everything Rodgers did in camp and in preseason waiting his turn.
Leinart was never a consideration for the Packers...their pick came down to AJ Hawk or Vernon Davis and they ended up going with the wrong guy
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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Hard to tell how Vernon would have done in Green Bay. Obviously imagining what he is now in that offense is a SCARY thought, but Singletary ripping his ass has a lot to do with the player hes become IMO.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:02 AM    (permalink
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Vernon Davis literally cried tears of joy when the Packers passed on him. That's reason enough to think that he would have been a bad fit.

And yeah, I've never heard that the Packers considered Leinart. Ted Thompson did have some very good things to say about Vince Young, for whatever TT's pre-draft word is worth.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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The player the Packers really wanted that year was D'Brickashaw Ferguson, anyway. I suspect that Thompson had Ferguson, Bush, and Williams above Hawk or Davis, either was a consolation prize and I suspect Davis would have been a terrible fit.

Personally I wanted Ngata there, and I still want Ngata there.

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Old 10-06-2012, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Thought Barkely looked the part on thursday night. I think the big year that Geno Smith has had is coming at the expense of Matt Barkely, which it shouldn't. I still see him coming off the board in the top 5 picks.
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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The touchdown he threw to Lee is the some of the most arm strength ive seen out of him in a long time.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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