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Old 10-05-2012, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by armageddon View Post
2 olineman and a legit #1 WR would go a long way. Give Bradford time and he is deadly. He's under pressure most plays.
Because these things are incredibly easy to find.

Let's take a look at what the Rams have done to go 3-2 this year before we start using words like "force" to describe them.

Played a Lions team that is proving to be very lousy close. Loss.

Beat the Redskins at home. Not bad. Nothing great, but not bad.

Failed to even enter the red zone against the Bears. Loss.

Lost to the Seahawks in a game where your only TD was on a fake punt. Loss.

Beat a Cardinals team who, while they were 4-0, had no offense to speak of and needed an incredible comeback to beat the Dolphins a week before.

I realize you're excited to actually have a winning record for the first time in like 5 years, but from out an outsiders perspective, this is still an incredibly weak team.

You've also got a span against the Packers, Pats and 49ers twice coming up, not to mention the Cardinals and Seahawks yet again.

I also think that Bradford is closer to mid-Texans-career David Carr than a franchise QB at this point. Blame the receivers, blame the o-line...there is blame to give there for sure...but the dude was 7-21 last night including a span of 11 straight incomplete passes. Some blame has to go to the QB too for pulling the trigger way too fast at times and throwing balls that were no where near anyone.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
And i would say conservatively speaking 4 of the top 6 or 7 defenses in football.

As for the Sam Bradford talk i think we've seen what he could do at Oklahoma with talent around him so he'll be more than good enough to get them to the playoffs in a year or two. With 4 first round picks in the next two drafts they're probably a lot close than some of the better known teams out there.
No. No. No. Unacceptable argument.

Matt Leinart won a Heisman with all time legendary talent around him. What did he do in the NFL? Ken Dorsey won championships in college with legendary talent around him. What did he do in the NFL? The list of QBs who were great in college with immense talent around them but did nothing in the NFL could go on for a long, long, long long while.

Pick a different argument. That one is just terrible. Surround any guy with pro bowl talent and he'll look good.

Like that Alex Smith guy.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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A good QB would increase the performance of the rest of the offense and not rely on having elite talent around him.

If the only way you're QB is going to be decent is by giving him elite receivers and an elite offensive line, you should just move on.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Bradford may not be able to elevate the talent around him like Brady, Eli or Rodgers, but I do believe he can 'maximize' talent, that is, he can make stud playmakers looks like pro bowlers. Similar to Kurt Warner.

I think the Rams can fill several holes in this upcoming draft. They should be able to draft a top 3 LT prospect and target whoever they grade out as one of the better WRs in this draft.

Their D is right there, good enough to win in the playoffs.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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No. No. No. Unacceptable argument.

Matt Leinart won a Heisman with all time legendary talent around him. What did he do in the NFL? Ken Dorsey won championships in college with legendary talent around him. What did he do in the NFL? The list of QBs who were great in college with immense talent around them but did nothing in the NFL could go on for a long, long, long long while.

Pick a different argument. That one is just terrible. Surround any guy with pro bowl talent and he'll look good.

Like that Alex Smith guy.
Why you gotta do this to me?
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Why you gotta do this to me?
It was more for fun at that point. I knew you couldn't be too far away.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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It was more for fun at that point. I knew you couldn't be too far away.
I was actually worlds away. I just sense a disturbance whenever Alex Smith gets brought up
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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I was actually worlds away. I just sense a disturbance whenever Alex Smith gets brought up
It's like Scottyboy when you mention Rutgers.

Somewhere in the darkest reaches of New Jersey, his Rutgers-sense just went off.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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Sam Bradford arguments are so old to me. But let's just keep listening to Rams' fans tell us about how if he had an elite offensive line, 2 pro bowl WR's, and now he'll need a franchise RB, then he'll be able to show his actual talent. This will be fun to listen to every season every week until the Rams decide to move on.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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A good QB would increase the performance of the rest of the offense and not rely on having elite talent around him.

If the only way you're QB is going to be decent is by giving him elite receivers and an elite offensive line, you should just move on.
I hate this stupid argument.

ELITE QB's do that. Not every good QB can and its absolutely stupid to expect every single one of em to do it.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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I hate this stupid argument.

ELITE QB's do that. Not every good QB can and its absolutely stupid to expect every single one of em to do it.
Then the ones that can't aren't good.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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Not one of the WRs Bradford had at OU has busted a grape in the pros.
But many of his Olineman have been major players in the NFL.

The argument that Bradford needs protection to develop, something he's never really had in 3 years in St. Louis IMO is valid.

It's still only his 31st game as a pro and you can see his improvement game to game.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Then the ones that can't aren't good.
Tom Brady is the only QB I can think of who's been dominant without at least one elite WR for the majority of his career.

The one year he had a top 10 talent at WR, he set passing records.

Most good QBs have had at least ONE very good to elite WR to throw the ball to.

Sam Bradford isn't Tom Brady.
Newsflash; the sun rose this morning.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Not one of the WRs Bradford had at OU has busted a grape in the pros.
But many of his Olineman have been major players in the NFL.

The argument that Bradford needs protection to develop, something he's never really had in 3 years in St. Louis IMO is valid.

It's still only his 31st game as a pro and you can see his improvement game to game.
Really? Because I haven't seen it in the two games of his I've watched closely this year (Bears and last night.)

Like I said, you can cast deserved blame at the o-line and receivers, but Bradford's hair trigger in the pocket and McNabb-like accuracy deserve blame as well. Even during the moments where he didn't have defenders on him, the ball was coming out way too fast and it wasn't placed where it needed to be too often.

I think my David Carr comparison is closest right now. Arguments were made back then saying that he just needed better protection and better playmakers...but by the time he actually got them, he was so psychologically broken that he could no longer utilize them.

We'll see if that happens with Bradford when (or even if) the Rams use all these upcoming first round picks to help him. (Seeing as how Jeff Fisher is the coach, don't be surprised if they aren't exactly keen on upgrading the WR spot...how many years did we project the Titans to take a first round WR before it finally happened?)
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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I'm just finishing up watching this game and both these defenses are legit. Their offense and OL stink, but those defenses are good.

Long is a good DE. It's still funny when people were whispering bust because he didn't immediately light the world on fire. His career has developed just fine. Going 4>5>8.5>13 sacks in his first 4 years.

Janoris Jenkins bit on some stuff out there like a rookie will, but he is going to be a player if he can keep his nose clean. That is still a major question though and pretty much why he slipped in the draft.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, those defenses are fine. It's hard for me to get a real good feel of the Rams d-line because I've only seen them in extended action against the Bears and Cardinals who have bottom 5 o-lines in the league, but they look like they could do some damage headed forward.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Because these things are incredibly easy to find.

Let's take a look at what the Rams have done to go 3-2 this year before we start using words like "force" to describe them.

Played a Lions team that is proving to be very lousy close. Loss.

Beat the Redskins at home. Not bad. Nothing great, but not bad.

Failed to even enter the red zone against the Bears. Loss.

Lost to the Seahawks in a game where your only TD was on a fake punt. Loss.

Beat a Cardinals team who, while they were 4-0, had no offense to speak of and needed an incredible comeback to beat the Dolphins a week before.

I realize you're excited to actually have a winning record for the first time in like 5 years, but from out an outsiders perspective, this is still an incredibly weak team.

You've also got a span against the Packers, Pats and 49ers twice coming up, not to mention the Cardinals and Seahawks yet again.

I also think that Bradford is closer to mid-Texans-career David Carr than a franchise QB at this point. Blame the receivers, blame the o-line...there is blame to give there for sure...but the dude was 7-21 last night including a span of 11 straight incomplete passes. Some blame has to go to the QB too for pulling the trigger way too fast at times and throwing balls that were no where near anyone.



pssss, the Rams won that game
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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I'm not saying he needs a great OL and weapons, but all young QBs need help and the ones that have flourished all got good support, Peyton got Edge, Harrison and Glenn, Brady didn't explode as a passer until he got Welker and Moss and before then had a great defense, strong OL and running game, Brees had Gates and LDT, Rodgers had that receiving corps, Palmer had Ochocinco when he was awesome. Bradford doesn't. He's making progress, but he's just not in a position to flourish right now because his OL is god awful and he doesn't have a stud WR to bail him out. He has some young guys who could become players, he has a good set of RBs and he had Amendola his rookie year. I'm not saying wait until he has an Alex Smith like supporting cast, but at least wait to see what happens when the OL isn't terribad next year. If the rams hit FA for the best OL and pick one in the first that would make a world of difference. With a full cadre of picks to continue building the team's depth.

Bradford still flashes great play. Those passes were wonderful throws, he's figuring out how to operate with the hand he's dealt and he's mentally tough. Those are all great signs, this isn't a kid losing his job to journeymen who's under utilizing his weapons. For a youngin I think he's been doing a fine job utilizing the talent around him, and for a young QB that's all you can ask. It takes time to learn how to QB and even beasts take time to learn how to elevate their talent, Bradford still has plenty of it, especially if the Rams can squeeze 7 or 8 wins out of the season.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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A good QB would increase the performance of the rest of the offense and not rely on having elite talent around him.

If the only way you're QB is going to be decent is by giving him elite receivers and an elite offensive line, you should just move on.
Besides Tom brady and Phillip Rivers who else has done it? Rodgers has had talent all of his career. Eli struggled when Plaxico shoot himself and I doubt he made Cruz better. The guy was balling out in the preseason might of been good his rookie season if he didn't get hurt. Peyton the guy had multiple 1st rounders around him and struggled when he lost Wayne(?) and Clark.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Tom Brady is the only QB I can think of who's been dominant without at least one elite WR for the majority of his career.

The one year he had a top 10 talent at WR, he set passing records.

Most good QBs have had at least ONE very good to elite WR to throw the ball to.

Sam Bradford isn't Tom Brady.
Newsflash; the sun rose this morning.
The year Rivers lost his 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th string WR and had Antonio Gates out too? Throwing for about 4500 yds.

A great qb will make the team better. See the difference when players like Cam Newton and RG3 come into the league and look at their team the year before.

Steve Smith career was revived because of Cam Newton coming in and playing great. Now don't twist my words up and say I'm calling him elite, Cam playing as well as he did made the players around him better.

Now this year RG3 is already making an impact on his team and time can only tell so I'll hold my judgement on that.

Why is Bradford even being compared to Brady?
Newsflash; the sun is hot.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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And the point I'm trying to make is if you as a QB can make your team better they I can put them in that 2nd tier and 3rd tier rankings of QB. But until then I have Bradford lower.

He's lower now but until he can make that step then I can move him up.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Sam Bradford arguments are so old to me. But let's just keep listening to Rams' fans tell us about how if he had an elite offensive line, 2 pro bowl WR's, and now he'll need a franchise RB, then he'll be able to show his actual talent. This will be fun to listen to every season every week until the Rams decide to move on.
He hasn't had great talent or decent talent around aside from Jackson. No one from the Rams would start for the cowboys and 15(maybe more) other teams especially last year. This year it looks like Danny could start over Dez, but before this year Danny would of been the Cowboys 4th WR and 7th option.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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No. No. No. Unacceptable argument.

Matt Leinart won a Heisman with all time legendary talent around him. What did he do in the NFL? Ken Dorsey won championships in college with legendary talent around him. What did he do in the NFL? The list of QBs who were great in college with immense talent around them but did nothing in the NFL could go on for a long, long, long long while.

Pick a different argument. That one is just terrible. Surround any guy with pro bowl talent and he'll look good.

Like that Alex Smith guy.
So you disagree with me, shocking.

My point is we know what the real Sam Bradford looks like when he has some time and some weapons. In his time in St. Louis he really has had neither.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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So you disagree with me, shocking.

My point is we know what the real Sam Bradford looks like when he has some time and some weapons. In his time in St. Louis he really has had neither.
You don't get to be a first round pick as a QB if you don't "look real" when you don't look good in college with weapons.

Very, very rarely are you just handed weapons in the NFL. Many, MANY QBs who looked great in college got to the pros and failed. It's just a terrible argument and point to make.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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With 4 #1 draft picks these next 2 years and loads of cap space, Fisher will see to it the o-line is fixed and weapons are added.
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