Week 5 Discussion Thread.

[scottyboy]

Eli is the third best qb in the league, behind Brady and Rodgers. At me is the general direction in which you can come.

[Matthew Jones]

Originally Posted by scottyboy

Eli is the third best qb in the league, behind Brady and Rodgers. At me is the general direction in which you can come.

Only because Mike Teel is retired.

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by scottyboy

Eli is the third best qb in the league, behind Brady and Rodgers. At me is the general direction in which you can come.

Mohamed Sanu > Eli. Perfect QB rating, never thrown an incomplete pass, etc.

[scottyboy]

Teel and Sanu are obviously the top 2, I just assumed we were talking about after them.

[Jvig43]

Eh no Brees scotty? I feel like Brees is certainly above Eli, but I would have no problem putting Eli at foourth behind him. Obviously if Peyton were healthy that might bump him down another spot but since he hasn't completely returned to that form yet (maybe he will, havent seen any denver games this year yet to tell) I think its fair to put Eli 4th.

[Scotty D]

Well, are you talking about performance this season or resume? Because Matt Ryan is beast mode this year.

[Jvig43]

When I rank a QB i never rank them strictly on what they are currently doing and I think far too many people do that. If were ranking QBs (current), who is elite etc, we are taking into account more than one season, or two seasons. Were looking at their entire body of work, why people have such knee jerk reactions to the present is beyond me.

[SuperPacker]

You could say "Matt Ryan is playing at an elite level" but it would be extremely premature to say he's an elite QB, after 4 games.

[PACKmanN]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

When I rank a QB i never rank them strictly on what they are currently doing and I think far too many people do that. If were ranking QBs (current), who is elite etc, we are taking into account more than one season, or two seasons. Were looking at their entire body of work, why people have such knee jerk reactions to the present is beyond me.

You cannot base elite talent off of in-season. It's the consistent elite play in that qb's history that makes him elite. If we base it off of only during each season then practically every qb can be or could have been elite. Which is outrageous.

[Matthew Jones]

The only quarterbacks that should be called elite are the ones with the championships. That means Brady, the Mannings, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger. Guys like Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Tony Romo, Matthew Stafford, Michael Vick, Joe Flacco, etc. belong in the next tier (franchise quarterback?)

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by PACKmanN

You cannot base elite talent off of in-season. It's the consistent elite play in that qb's history that makes him elite. If we base it off of only during each season then practically every qb can be or could have been elite. Which is outrageous.

So how long of a sample size do we need?

Because guys like Rodgers for example, has been elite for 3 years, but is 3 years enough to say for certain that he is elite? I say yes, because I have no concerns about him declining, I fully expect him to continue playing like he does for the next 7 years or so.

There's a fine line. It's why I have confidence in calling Eli elite. Does he have 6 years of elite play? No, he does not. But I fully expect him to continue to play at an elite level for the rest of his career as long as he can stay healthy.

[Jvig43]

Originally Posted by PACKmanN

You cannot base elite talent off of in-season. It's the consistent elite play in that qb's history that makes him elite. If we base it off of only during each season then practically every qb can be or could have been elite. Which is outrageous.

Yes, that was my point.

[Raiderz4Life]

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

The only quarterbacks that should be called elite are the ones with the championships. That means Brady, the Mannings, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger. Guys like Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Tony Romo, Matthew Stafford, Michael Vick, Joe Flacco, etc. belong in the next tier (franchise quarterback?)

That's ridiculous. If that's your measuring stick Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer were elite too right?

[prock]

Originally Posted by raiderz4life

That's ridiculous. If that's your measuring stick Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer were elite too right?

No, you interpreted that poorly. He is saying you need to have a championship to be elite, but having a championship doesn't necessarily make you elite.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

The only quarterbacks that should be called elite are the ones with the championships. That means Brady, the Mannings, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger. Guys like Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Tony Romo, Matthew Stafford, Michael Vick, Joe Flacco, etc. belong in the next tier (franchise quarterback?)

But why? Football is a team sport and not everyone can be a champion due to a lot of variables that are out of one's control, no matter how good of a player at their individual position they are. Marino, Moon, and Fouts were elite guys in their hey-day.

[Borat]

Dan Marino. Obviously, not elite.

[Rob S]

I think it's fair to say that, in general, you need a championship to be considered an elite QB. There can be exceptions obviously (Marino, Kelly, Tarkenton), but in general it's true. Exceptions to the rule will be glaringly obvious in all cases.

I don't really understand why this discussion has gained so much steam. It's pretty cut and dry imo. meh.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Ness

But why? Football is a team sport and not everyone can be a champion due to a lot of variables that are out of one's control, no matter how good of a player at their individual position they are. Marino, Moon, and Fouts were elite guys in their hey-day.

Marino was elite for sure. Moon...debatable. But Fouts was not elite. Far too mediocre in the playoffs to be elite to me.

[b316]

Bradshaw isn't elite, Rings aren't the end all be all, but they are definetly the stepping stone to get that title of "elite'

[FUNBUNCHER]

Fouts was elite. His 1981 season was one of the best in the history of the game. The Bolts best chance to make the SB, after the '81 season, was derailed when they had to play the Bengals in Cincinnati under freezing snowy game conditions.

Fouts put up big numbers in his playoff appearances, unfortunately so did SD's defense.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Fouts was elite. His 1981 season was one of the best in the history of the game. The Bolts best chance to make the SB, after the '81 season, was derailed when they had to play the Bengals in Cincinnati under freezing snowy game conditions.

Fouts put up big numbers in his playoff appearances, unfortunately so did SD's defense.

That was just a lame excuse though. We lost bc it was cold. Ken Anderson thoroughly outplayed him.

[VernonLawson89]

Congrats to my boy P-Dub!

http://instagram.com/p/QdtgSkQNxJ/

[yo123]

Damn. Nice pull.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Rob S

I think it's fair to say that, in general, you need a championship to be considered an elite QB. There can be exceptions obviously (Marino, Kelly, Tarkenton), but in general it's true. Exceptions to the rule will be glaringly obvious in all cases.

I don't really understand why this discussion has gained so much steam. It's pretty cut and dry imo. meh.

I don't think it's that clear, cut and dry. If it was one person, as an exception to the rule then I could see it. But there have been a ton of guys that have had Hall of Fame careers/were elite at the QB position that didn't win a championship. To me, like I said earlier, there are just certain things that a player can't always control in a team oriented sport that depends on so many variables.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by VernonLawson89

Congrats to my boy P-Dub!

http://instagram.com/p/QdtgSkQNxJ/

Wow. She is beautiful. Good for him. And good for her. I bet his wedding is going to be awesome.