NBA Discussion Thread - Page 2912

pierce2walker · 10-08-2012, 12:29 AM

He's definitely not worth the money and the move to OKC revealed that. He's a great post defender, but playing in that Celtics defense really helped him. See Greg Steimsma last year. Ainge got murdered for trading him, but it really was more of a financial move because the Celts couldn't/didn't want to pay him what he was going to demand on the open market. The Jeff Green heart issue was a very unlucky break, but Green could prove to be a major difference maker this year off the C's bench.

yo123 · 10-08-2012, 12:34 AM

Harden is going to resign.

Brodeur · 10-08-2012, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

Harden is going to resign.

He's resigning? Why is he leaving?

D-Unit · 10-08-2012, 02:14 AM

Fantasy question. Who does the best between:

JR Smith
Ben Gordon
Dion Waiters

MetSox17 · 10-08-2012, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

He's resigning? Why is he leaving?

Because you touch yourself at night.

Also, Harden is not worth a max contract. He has a chance to prove otherwise this upcoming season, but he really killed a lot of his value in the Finals. He looked just god-awful.

VAfy-ya · 10-08-2012, 11:04 AM

I love his game but I don't think Harden is worth a max contract. And I've been liking the kid since I saw him at a AAU tournament way back when. I just think quicker 2's and 3's or guys with length at the 2 or 3 really bother him offensively and he'll always struggle to get good looks against those kinds of players because he isn't super athletic or quick. And his stroke is very streaky. Actually let me re-phrase that. I don't think he's worth it to a team like OKC who have two other legit All-Stars in place. Now if your team looking for talent on the wing who doesn't really have any star power, than yea I can probably see where offering him the max is worth it to get some scoring. But I think he's more of a complimentary piece to a contender rather than a building block.

Rosebud · 10-08-2012, 11:07 AM

Harden's going to end up more important to them than Westbrook.

yo123 · 10-08-2012, 11:08 AM

I think it's weird you guys are putting so much stock in one finals series. He's like 23 in his first finals and he didn't play well. Like that's never happened before? Sure it should raise a few eyebrows that he looked like he struggled against athleticism but we're sure weighting those 5 games pretty heavily against the rest of his season which was great. He even had a couple of very good series in the playoffs against Dallas and San Antonio.

MetSox17 · 10-08-2012, 11:12 AM

The way people look at huge games or series and notice how a guy has the potential for greatness, the same should be done for bad games and their potential to be awful. He has a ton of talent, but his game is what worries me. He showed he can be a black hole offensively and completely reckless with the ball. Can he improve on that? Of course. Will he, is the question. I wouldn't throw max money at him because i don't know if you can run an efficient offense through him, while he plays a starter's role, against starting caliber players for a full season.

Raiderz4Life · 10-08-2012, 11:25 AM

I think someone will throw the max at him nut honestly I think he's better of as the 6th man. Could be OKC's Ginobli.

yo123 · 10-08-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiderz4life

I think someone will throw the max at him nut honestly I think he's better of as the 6th man. Could be OKC's Ginobli.

In his prime I would have given Ginobili the max. Just sayin.

MetSox17 · 10-08-2012, 11:35 AM

Ugh, yes someone will give him the money, i just don't see how he's worth it. But whatever. Maybe Sacramento will pay him once they move.

yo123 · 10-08-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetSox17

Ugh, yes someone will give him the money, i just don't see how he's worth it. But whatever. Maybe Sacramento will pay him once they move.

I know it's well known that someone will, I'm saying I would and I think OKC should.

Who's their third scorer if he leaves? It's an uphill battle to sign a big name FA to live in OKC for 4-5 years.

MetSox17 · 10-08-2012, 11:46 AM

Who gives 18M/year to their third scorer?

yo123 · 10-08-2012, 11:49 AM

OKC is a unique case though, for the reason I stated. If they're going to get a 3rd guy like Harden it's most likely going to be through the draft, and with the team they have they're going to be picking in the late 20's for a long time. With how top heavy the NBA draft normally is, it's tough to find really good players there.

I suppose it all depends on if Bennett wants to open up the wallet and pay some luxury tax dollars.

MetSox17 · 10-08-2012, 11:54 AM

I just don't think the whole small town thing is gonna be a big deterrent for free agents. OKC is a nice city, but the big draw is winning. That team is gonna be at the top of the West for a very long time, pretty soon players are gonna start sacrificing money to go play there, and it helps that they just made the finals with one of the youngest teams in the league.

While we're on topic, who gets more money, James Harden or Monta Ellis? Now think to yourself, if you're OKC, who would you rather give that money to? I'd rather throw a 4/60 deal at Monta Ellis than to give Harden 5/85 or whatever it is.

VAfy-ya · 10-08-2012, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

I think it's weird you guys are putting so much stock in one finals series. He's like 23 in his first finals and he didn't play well. Like that's never happened before? Sure it should raise a few eyebrows that he looked like he struggled against athleticism but we're sure weighting those 5 games pretty heavily against the rest of his season which was great. He even had a couple of very good series in the playoffs against Dallas and San Antonio.

My assessment of him isn't based off the Finals. I was saying that when he was killing my Lakers in Round 2. When his shot is falling, it opens up a lot for his game. When his shot isn't falling, he has a tough time creating space for himself.

Rob S · 10-08-2012, 12:13 PM

Meh. Harden's prime will probably be Joe Johnson like. It will take a max to get him, sure, but it won't end well. That's not a knock on Harden btw, I love the guys game, he's just going to be overpaid.

Raiderz4Life · 10-08-2012, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetSox17

I just don't think the whole small town thing is gonna be a big deterrent for free agents. OKC is a nice city, but the big draw is winning. That team is gonna be at the top of the West for a very long time, pretty soon players are gonna start sacrificing money to go play there, and it helps that they just made the finals with one of the youngest teams in the league.

While we're on topic, who gets more money, James Harden or Monta Ellis? Now think to yourself, if you're OKC, who would you rather give that money to? I'd rather throw a 4/60 deal at Monta Ellis than to give Harden 5/85 or whatever it is.

I've never been a big fan of Monta...so I'd take Harden. Younger and can still max out his potential while Monta is Monta.

pierce2walker · 10-08-2012, 01:47 PM

Right now I'd guess that Harden will definitely get max offers, but he will take a contract similar to Westbrook's to stay in OKC. Just a guess. I actually feel like Harden may be a case where he has more value on OKC than on a lot of other teams because he rarely has to be the top option offensively. He holds a lot more value than someone like Monta because of his ability to create for others and particularly his defensive capabilities.

yo123 · 10-08-2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierce2walker

Right now I'd guess that Harden will definitely get max offers, but he will take a contract similar to Westbrook's to stay in OKC. Just a guess. I actually feel like Harden may be a case where he has more value on OKC than on a lot of other teams because he rarely has to be the top option offensively. He holds a lot more value than someone like Monta because of his ability to create for others and particularly his defensive capabilities.

I agree with everything here but the defense part. I don't think Harden is a very good defender. He's not awful or anything but I don't think he's good either.

pierce2walker · 10-08-2012, 01:57 PM

I'm not saying he's an all-defense type of guy, but when compared to someone like Monta, Harden at least has the size/strength/athleticism to be able to compete with the stud wings of the league. When he comes off the bench he can wreak havoc offensively, while at least not getting destroyed by someone like Kobe defensively.

MetSox17 · 10-08-2012, 02:01 PM

Ability to create for others? Did ya'll see the same playoffs i did? Harden's offense consisted of jacking up threes and driving to the hoop with his head down. When it worked, they were winning. When it didn't, they got raped.

pierce2walker · 10-08-2012, 02:07 PM

Also in regards to OKC being able to attract big name FA's I definitely think it could be a struggle for them despite their great young roster. When he Chris Paul's, Dwight's, Melo's...etc. of the world are demanding to be trading do they ever name OKC as a destination? The divas that are NBA superstars want the glamor cities. Despite the Knicks recent struggles stars will want to play there because its New York. See the Nets the last 2 years.

scottyboy · 10-08-2012, 02:12 PM

I just realized the nets don't have anyone hilariously bad for me to joke about. I'm not sure I like this whole potentially good team thing