The Official Kansas City Chiefs General Discussion Thread - Page 121

nepg · 10-11-2012, 11:14 PM

The Pioli hate is senseless. He's put together one of the very best rosters in the NFL, and he's done it the right way. Unfortunately, Matt Cassel just fell apart under the pressure. I feel bad for the guy. The first half of the Atlanta game shows what he's capable of being, and it was what I expected from him this year. It showed why he was the best option not named Peyton Manning since he's been in KC.

This team is going to go down to Tampa and crush the Bucs. They'll have a nice bye week and be 3-4 after 8 weeks. The general atmosphere will change dramatically in the next 3 weeks.

vidae · 10-11-2012, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy

Have you watched the Bucs play? Let me remind you, we lost to the Jaguars several years back when they had Quinn Gray as their QB. In that very game he threw a TD to Matt Jones. Think about that for a second.

Have you seen the Chiefs play? We were blown out by the BILLS.

villagewarrior · 10-12-2012, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

The Pioli hate is senseless. He's put together one of the very best rosters in the NFL,

No, he hasn't. Jamaal Charles, Dwayne Bowe, Brandon Albert, Glenn Dorsey, Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, and Brandon Flowers are the core of the football team and they were put in place by the previous regime. Pioli is responsible for the QB, who had one good year. He is responsible for Tyson Jackson who nobody had pegged at 3. The only player in that class that isn't drastically underperforming is the 7th round kicker.

I'm going to give the Baldwin pick a break because of the shoddy QB play, but he needs to start panning out too. 2010 could be pretty good but Berry is going through his sophomore slump, Lewis is injury prone, McCluster - as good as he is- is small, one-dimensional, and injury prone, and Arenas isn't very good at corner and isn't much better as a return man.

Pioli has not contributed much and he did not build the roster.

nepg · 10-13-2012, 12:50 AM

Did you want him to get rid of those players and replace then with his own play makers?

That argument is stupid. And DJ was a bust before Romeo came to KC anyway. Poplin built a team around the talent he identified already existed. Every player you didn't name that is on the current roster was brought in by Pioli.

Would I rather have Raji than Jackson? Yes. All along, yes. But Jackson is actually a good player now. The rest of that draft didn't have much chance becausePioli came in late and didn't have his people.

McCluster is one dimensional? Ok... So is Wes Welker?

Arenas is a solid 4th corner and a solid returner (though unspectacular). I'll take that.

What was he supposed to do with the QB position? When you actually pay attention to what the options were, it didn't look so bad...

vidae · 10-13-2012, 01:30 AM

What was he supposed to do? Whatever it took to upgrade it. We have the worst QB situation in the NFL. Our "starter" has more turnovers himself than 31 other teams. BRADY QUINN is our backup. Ricky Stanzi was a wasted pick.

For all the talk of him bringing in competition, he failed to do that in EXTRAORDINARY fashion.

I can't wait until Pioli and RAC are fired so we can get rid of this "Patriots Way" mindset and maybe you won't defend these guys so hard when it isn't warranted in the least.

Caddy · 10-13-2012, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

Have you seen the Chiefs play? We were blown out by the BILLS.

This game is going to either be really fun, or really horrific.

vidae · 10-13-2012, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy

This game is going to either be really fun, or really horrific.

Really fun for you guys, par for the course for us.

villagewarrior · 10-13-2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

Did you want him to get rid of those players and replace then with his own play makers?

That's not at all my point. You said Pioli built the roster. He has not brought in a single player that is equal to what he inherited. Berry and Houston might get there, but the jury is still out on them.

McCluster is one dimensional, and when he starts catching 100 balls a season come back to me with your Welker argument. Pioli has had many premium draft selections and he has used them on, at best, complementary players. And you still think Matt Cassel is a decent quarterback, therefore your evaluation of Tyson Jackson is irrelevant.

I'll grant you the point on DJ, although I'd say it was Todd Haley's tough love that got DJ going more so than anything else. But, the Scott Pioli "hate" is warranted because he has not done enough to build the team.

We're talking QB. We're talking DL. We're talking CB. And his megalomaniacal
behavior is likely the reason Jeff Fisher and other coaching candidates wouldn't even sniff Kansas City.

Hermstheman83 · 10-13-2012, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by villagewarrior

That's not at all my point. You said Pioli built the roster. He has not brought in a single player that is equal to what he inherited. Berry and Houston might get there, but the jury is still out on them.

McCluster is one dimensional, and when he starts catching 100 balls a season come back to me with your Welker argument. Pioli has had many premium draft selections and he has used them on, at best, complementary players. And you still think Matt Cassel is a decent quarterback, therefore your evaluation of Tyson Jackson is irrelevant.

I'll grant you the point on DJ, although I'd say it was Todd Haley's tough love that got DJ going more so than anything else. But, the Scott Pioli "hate" is warranted because he has not done enough to build the team.

We're talking QB. We're talking DL. We're talking CB. And his megalomaniacal
behavior is likely the reason Jeff Fisher and other coaching candidates wouldn't even sniff Kansas City.

All very good points. The only point I'm not sure about is the "megalomanical" comment. I'm guessing your going to point to that article awhile ago and Haley's paranoia near the end of his tenure? I guess whenever I've seen Pioli talk he doesn't strike me as an arrogant cat(but that' why I don't play poker) I'm also not sure about "not doing" enough to build the team. With Weis and Haley, Cass actually looked good(I thought) during his one probowl year. I am still holding out hope that KC will start turning it on(didn't Daboll's offene lead the league in yards the last few weeks of the season?) or Quinn is the franchise QB we've been waiting for.

vidae · 10-13-2012, 04:59 PM

Quinn is god awful. I can't believe people think there is even the smallest hope that he's our future franchise QB. I don't get it.

Wootylicous · 10-13-2012, 05:01 PM

Tell RAC to give Cory Greenstud more playing time.

Splat · 10-13-2012, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tha Wootster

Tell RAC to give Cory Greenstud more playing time.

Can he play QB?

Caddy · 10-13-2012, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

Quinn is god awful. I can't believe people think there is even the smallest hope that he's our future franchise QB. I don't get it.

Bro are u srs?

Wootylicous · 10-13-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splat

Can he play QB?

He can't be worse than Cassel/Quinn/Stanzi

nepg · 10-13-2012, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by villagewarrior

That's not at all my point. You said Pioli built the roster. He has not brought in a single player that is equal to what he inherited. Berry and Houston might get there, but the jury is still out on them.

It kind of is your point. And I'd differ on the guys he's brought in. Poe is quite obviously a stud NT already. So impressive. Houston is one of the best pass rushers in the NFL AND he's capable in pass coverage, Berry is great as long as he isn't covering TEs, and a lot of the other guys have been injured, so it's tough to talk about them. The roster is much better at this point than it ever was with Carl Peterson and it's just the very beginning.

People try to rag on the cap room they have, but what else could they have done with it? Create-a-player? They brought in high quality depth and high-end fills for team-friendly prices. You can't knock that. They have one of the best rosters in the NFL while having a ton of cap room. How is that bad?

The jury is out on Houston? I'll give you Berry because I don't think that knee is 100% and he still struggles with TEs, but Houston?

Quote:

McCluster is one dimensional, and when he starts catching 100 balls a season come back to me with your Welker argument.

In what universe is McCluster one dimensional? The point was that he does the same things as Welker and can easily get close to that level. That's just completely off the nonsensical chart to say he's one-dimensional.

Quote:

Pioli has had many premium draft selections and he has used them on, at best, complementary players. And you still think Matt Cassel is a decent quarterback, therefore your evaluation of Tyson Jackson is irrelevant.

What? Yes, Matt Cassel is a decent QB. He's got some internal issues going on right now. Pretty obvious the way he carries himself. Hasn't dealt with the pressure and unprovoked scrutiny well at all. He's had a bad season.

Tyson Jackson is a good 3-4 DE. He has been for a couple years now. People that don't see that tend to not understand the 3-4. When they drafted him, they felt they had to draft him. That was more of a situation where if they didn't get Jackson, they weren't going to be able to run the defense they wanted to run. It's just as hard to find star DEs as it is to find star NTs for a 3-4, but fill-in guys at DE hurt way more than fill-in guys at NT.

Quote:

I'll grant you the point on DJ, although I'd say it was Todd Haley's tough love that got DJ going more so than anything else. But, the Scott Pioli "hate" is warranted because he has not done enough to build the team.

Yeah. One of the reasons Pioli brought Haley in was to weed out the guys with scrub attitudes. There's no way he would have brought in a guy like RAC going into that situation.

Quote:

We're talking QB. We're talking DL. We're talking CB.

What's wrong with the DL? They look good with Bailey, Rapati, Poe, Powe, Dorsey, and Jackson.

What's wrong with CB? That group has been fine since they got relatively healthy. Could they have signed Carr? Maybe (if he wanted to stay), but most people respected the decision to bring in Routt for less and let Carr walk. They let him go to sign Bowe, but it takes two.

And I've already gone over how they have never had a better option than Matt Cassel. That's just the way it's been. No one will come up with what else they should have done that they had the option to do with this position. Kyle Orton? Really? Not the solution, and Cassel would have beaten him out in camp just as soundly as he beat out Quinn.

Quote:

And his megalomaniacal
behavior is likely the reason Jeff Fisher and other coaching candidates wouldn't even sniff Kansas City.

You listen to the radio too much for one (evidenced by all of the things you say all the time). Secondly, JEFF FISHER (or Bill Cowher - same deal) is the one who is "magalomaniacal" in that scenario. He wouldn't go anywhere where he didn't have 100% say in the roster. Get real, man.

Splat · 10-13-2012, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

Kyle Orton? Really? Not the solution, and Cassel would have beaten him out in camp just as soundly as he beat out Quinn.

This made me laugh. I mean Cassel would have beat Orton out because it wouldn't have been a "real" competition, not because he is the better player.

nepg · 10-13-2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splat

This made me laugh. I mean Cassel would have beat Orton out because it wouldn't have been a "real" competition, not because he is the better player.

That is another point that I'd like to address. ******* sheep that think that the coaches don't have say in who starts at QB. Reality check, homeboys: they start Cassel because he's the best option. Orton is not good. The Ortonites are just as bad or worse than the people loving on Quinn right now. It's pathetic.

Splat · 10-13-2012, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

That is another point that I'd like to address. ******* sheep that think that the coaches don't have say in who starts at QB. Reality check, homeboys: they start Cassel because he's the best option. Orton is not good. The Ortonites are just as bad or worse than the people loving on Quinn right now. It's pathetic.

When you have Quinn and Stanzi as backups he is. It doesn't make him a good option.

Orton isn't great far from it but he is a hell of alot better than Matt Cassel.

Raiderz4Life · 10-13-2012, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

What? Yes, Matt Cassel is a decent QB. He's got some internal issues going on right now. Pretty obvious the way he carries himself. Hasn't dealt with the pressure and unprovoked scrutiny well at all. He's had a bad season.

HAHA what?? Matt Cassel decent? In what universe???

Edit: At least Orton knew how to take care of the ball.

vidae · 10-13-2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

It kind of is your point. And I'd differ on the guys he's brought in. Poe is quite obviously a stud NT already. So impressive. Houston is one of the best pass rushers in the NFL AND he's capable in pass coverage, Berry is great as long as he isn't covering TEs, and a lot of the other guys have been injured, so it's tough to talk about them. The roster is much better at this point than it ever was with Carl Peterson and it's just the very beginning.

Poe isn't a STUD NT already. He's played well, but that is hardly a stud. I'll give you Houston and Berry, but the roster being better than when Carl Peterson was here is not really something to brag about. The roster might be better but the team is not. We're not winning. And it's because of Pioli.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

People try to rag on the cap room they have, but what else could they have done with it? Create-a-player? They brought in high quality depth and high-end fills for team-friendly prices. You can't knock that. They have one of the best rosters in the NFL while having a ton of cap room. How is that bad?

It's bad because we're 1-4 and we look bad out there. The roster is better, BUT THE TEAM ISN'T WINNING GAMES. I don't care if you have the best roster in the entire god damn league if you're not winning games. Get that through your head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

The jury is out on Houston? I'll give you Berry because I don't think that knee is 100% and he still struggles with TEs, but Houston?

I disagree with Village on Houston and Berry, but Houston isn't exactly a top 5 at his position yet. It's his second year. We should give him a bit more time before claiming he's the best pass rusher in the league.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

In what universe is McCluster one dimensional? The point was that he does the same things as Welker and can easily get close to that level. That's just completely off the nonsensical chart to say he's one-dimensional.

And here is where I agree with Village again. Both picks in 2010 were bad. McCluster IS one dimensional, and the fact that you keep trying to compare him to Wes Welker is laughable. LAUGHABLE. He is nowhere near there in physical ability or smarts. They aren't even CLOSE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

What? Yes, Matt Cassel is a decent QB. He's got some internal issues going on right now. Pretty obvious the way he carries himself. Hasn't dealt with the pressure and unprovoked scrutiny well at all. He's had a bad season.

And here is where you lose all credibility. I don't get you. Are you his wife? Are you in love with him? There is no world in which Matt Cassel is decent. He is awful. He is easily the worst starting QB in the league. He has never been more than average, and right now he's really bad. I don't get why you're defending him so hard, but it makes you look foolish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

Tyson Jackson is a good 3-4 DE. He has been for a couple years now. People that don't see that tend to not understand the 3-4. When they drafted him, they felt they had to draft him. That was more of a situation where if they didn't get Jackson, they weren't going to be able to run the defense they wanted to run. It's just as hard to find star DEs as it is to find star NTs for a 3-4, but fill-in guys at DE hurt way more than fill-in guys at NT.

I hate it when you insult people who disagree with you. I'm getting sick of it. Because I'm not willing to tongue his balls I don't understand the 3-4? It's clear from your posts that you're the one who just doesn't get it. When you pick 3rd overall you don't want a "good" 3-4 DE. You want a GREAT 3-4 DE. This concept is easy enough for my niece to grasp, and she's 11 months old.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

Yeah. One of the reasons Pioli brought Haley in was to weed out the guys with scrub attitudes. There's no way he would have brought in a guy like RAC going into that situation.

Both Haley and RAC were awful head coaching hires. Both of them. God awful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

What's wrong with the DL? They look good with Bailey, Rapati, Poe, Powe, Dorsey, and Jackson.

Tyson Jackson is ok. Glenn Dorsey is bad. The rest are ok. That doesn't make a great DLine, it makes an ok one. Which is what we have after spending 3 top 11 picks on it. That is unacceptable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

What's wrong with CB? That group has been fine since they got relatively healthy. Could they have signed Carr? Maybe (if he wanted to stay), but most people respected the decision to bring in Routt for less and let Carr walk. They let him go to sign Bowe, but it takes two.

CB depth is awful. Javier Arenas was a wasted pick. He's too slow and short to cover anyone with any sort of skill. He's the epitome of average. And I agree with letting Carr walk, but he didn't re-sign Bowe. He was forced to franchise him. And he'll likely have to do it again. Letting Carr walk was ONLY ACCEPTABLE if Bowe is signed here long term, and please tell me why in gods name he'd do that now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

And I've already gone over how they have never had a better option than Matt Cassel. That's just the way it's been. No one will come up with what else they should have done that they had the option to do with this position. Kyle Orton? Really? Not the solution, and Cassel would have beaten him out in camp just as soundly as he beat out Quinn.

This is more of you tonguing our QBs for some reason. We had options, he just chose not to act on any of them. Kyle Orton looks like Andrew Luck compared to Cassel and you're the only person who is unwilling to admit it. There is no way in hell Cassel wins the starting job with Orton in camp, and that's why he is now a Cowboy. And Quinn? That's some GREAT competition you brought in at QB Pioli. Bang up job there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

You listen to the radio too much for one (evidenced by all of the things you say all the time). Secondly, JEFF FISHER (or Bill Cowher - same deal) is the one who is "magalomaniacal" in that scenario. He wouldn't go anywhere where he didn't have 100% say in the roster. Get real, man.

No, you're wrong about this AGAIN. They wanted a GM they could WORK WITH but ultimately wanted a say in what players they drafted. Pioli wouldn't have it. He wanted complete control over everything and he got it because he hired a lame duck coach who won't question it. More "Patriot Way" ********.

You constantly defend the horrible decisions that Pioli makes and you constantly defend the awfulness that is Matt Cassel. We get it bro, you're a Patriots fan, but it's time for you to let it go. Most of us are sick of reading the same garbage from you and it's about to reach a boiling point.

nepg · 10-13-2012, 06:22 PM

How is someone who plays RB, WR, and returns kicks one dimensional? That just doesn't make any sense. Check your pipe because what you're smoking is going to kill your brain.

vidae · 10-13-2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

How is someone who plays RB, WR, and returns kicks one dimensional? That just doesn't make any sense. Check your pipe because what you're smoking is going to kill your brain.

He has barely lined up at RB this year, if at all. They said he's a full blown WR. And please tell me the last time he returned a kick? It's been Javier Arenas back there.

You're making **** up now to try to sound right, but we're all hardcore fans here. We know what we're talking about. Solid attempt though.

Raiderz4Life · 10-13-2012, 06:56 PM

I think its cuz KC is NE-lite.

Dorsey really needs to gtfo KC...any chance he had at success in the league was/is being killed by the 3-4.

villagewarrior · 10-13-2012, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

How is someone who plays RB, WR, and returns kicks one dimensional? That just doesn't make any sense. Check your pipe because what you're smoking is going to kill your brain.

I can line Ryan Lilja up at RB, WR, kick returner and call him multi-dimensional too. Let's see if you understand my point here since you like to tell me what my points are.

And I'm only a high school coach, I get that, but, I coach the 34 defensive line. I have a pretty good handle on what you want out of 34 ends. Tyson Jackson is a decent run defending defensive end, that's fine. You don't draft decent run defending defensive ends at number 3 overall. Period. The closer to number one overall you pick, the more of an impact player you need to acquire. Pioli failed with Tyson Jackson.

And my points with Houston and Berry being unproven at this point are this: Houston has yet to put it together over a full season (I stress yet, because I think he is doing that this year) and Berry hasn't looked like the same player to my eye since he came back from the surgery. And he still hasn't shown he can cover elite TEs which is what you want out of a number 5 overall safety.

villagewarrior · 10-13-2012, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiderz4life

I think its cuz KC is NE-lite.

Dorsey really needs to gtfo KC...any chance he had at success in the league was/is being killed by the 3-4.

I think if Dorsey gets back to a 43 defense he'll be alright. He's just out of position as a 34 end, he doesn't have the skill set there.