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Old 10-14-2012, 10:46 PM    (permalink
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I think when you have a collective crappy unit back there you're almost better off going for another pass rusher. When BB started bringing some pressure today the Pats were pretty much controlling the game. Where they'll be drafting they probably can't expect much help for the secondary.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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Here's how the forum mock has gone thus far:

1. OL Barrett Jones, Alabama (6'5", 310)

2. DE Cornellius Carradine, Florida St. (6'4", 265)

3. WR Cobi Hamilton, Arkansas (6'3", 210)

We've got two fourth-round picks left.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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I just read a mock at Walterfootball. I wish I never had... So stupid...

Quote:
The Patriots are getting no interior pass rush. Vince Wilfork, turning 31 soon, is not having a good season and appears to be declining. Kyle Love, meanwhile, has been a non-factor for the most part. Sylvester Williams has been dominant for North Carolina this year. He has the size that Bill Belichick likes in his defensive linemen.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Even a 5 year old knows that is bs. I watched Wilfork almost chase down Leon Washington last week who is literally half his size. Wilfork is one of the best in the league and Love has emerged as a very good player for us.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
I just read a mock at Walterfootball. I wish I never had... So stupid...
Not sure Walters mock draft constitutes a reliable source. I thought the defense line looked good against Seattle. Did a great job on Marshawn Lunch and i thought they got a pretty good push up the middle. The problem was except for the times when they brought a backer or a safety they weren'
t able to keep Wilson from scrambling outside and hurting them.

On a slightly related topic, if they can't cover in the secondary their best chance is going to be going after the QB with more than the base front. It's probably going to result in a big play here or there but right now they have no chance when it's left to the back end of the defense.
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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I would say VW is not having as good of a season as last year, but I think that has more to do with the fact that he had a renaissance year last year, and it's tough to stay at that level even if he's still playing at a pro bowl level. Kyle Love hasn't taken that next step I was hoping he would, but in my estimation he's still a plus player at that position. I agree we need to try to get an interior rusher, but I think that is too high of a pick when we only need a rotational rusher.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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I just read a mock at Walterfootball. I wish I never had... So stupid...
He's right about the interior pass rush part. I disagree with the Wilfork and Love not playing well part, though.

Chandler Jones is the only guy on this team that can beat a 1 on 1 block consistently in the pass rush.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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The problem was except for the times when they brought a backer or a safety they weren't able to keep Wilson from scrambling outside and hurting them.
If a QB is (consistently) getting enough time to get out of the pocket (save for designed plays), the DL isn't doing their job.
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:10 AM    (permalink
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Since my status has changed from student to unemployed I now have lots of time watching college ball. I've come up with my dream draft for the Patriots, although I admit that it's not likely to happen. Let me know what you think!

1. Ezekiel Ansah, DE, BYU
I think Ansah has the potential to go a lot higher than where we'll be picking come april. However, his perceived value right now is probably as a solid second round pick. When the combine rolls around we'll be hearing everyone comparing this guy to JPP. He's big, has great natural strength and is just a phenomenal athlete. Motor is non-stop. I really like the prospects of having Jones at LDE and Ansah at RDE. Ansah also lines up as a 3-tech and even at nose tackle for BYU. So he's very versatile and has great awareness.

2. Marqess Wilson, WR, Washington State
To be completely honest with you, I think that Wilson is one of the two best draft eligible receivers in this draft. The other guy I like is Cordarrelle Patterson. I'm not sure why Wilson isn't getting any hype right now. It might be because he's the only good player on that team. However, he's a poor man's Randy Moss. He has a tall, lanky frame, deceptive speed and great hands. He does have the occasional drop that makes you go "WTF!?", but he more than makes up for it with all the other great catches he makes. He's also more than willing to catch balls over the middle and will win most jump balls with ease. He's just a terrific WR imo.

3. Justin Tuggle, LB, Kansas State
After having watched some K-State games I started to really like Tuggle. I'm very pleased with our situation at LB as you all know, but all our linebackers do have a history of getting nagging injuries. Tuggle has nice size, very good athleticism and great instincts. His motor is non-stop and he's a pretty good tackler.

4a. Bacarri Rambo, S, Georgia
Rambo isn't here just because of his name, although that might have something to do with it. He's a playmaker who's always around the ball. I'm not sure about his football IQ, but so far I want him help fix this pass defense.

4b. Ray Graham, RB, Pitt
This is mostly a value pick. I doubt that Woody will be back next year which leaves us a bit thin at RB. Graham is a very solid allround player who'll end up making some team very happy. I want that team to be the NE Patriots.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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With the exception of Rambo I can't really argue about any player, however I would want to get an interior offensive lineman early.

Thomas, Mankins, Wendell and Connolly are a good core, however Connolly is injury prone. Mankins has been playing through injuries (until this season when he has sat). I would like to get a stud guy at OG to bolster depth and look to the future. Chance Warmack is a wet dream but Barrett Jones and Jonathan Cooper are two guys that can be had.

I love the upside of Ansah, however I would prefer Jones to play RE with Ansah as a LE similar to Justin Tuck for us.

Wilson I am ok on in the second although I would prefer other guys. Tavon Austin is the guy I would like right now in the second at WR.
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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You would be upset if we got Rambo in the fourth round? I
Understand some people on here don't like him but he would be nice value there. I think that draft would be amazing.
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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You would be upset if we got Rambo in the fourth round? I
Understand some people on here don't like him but he would be nice value there. I think that draft would be amazing.
It's ok value but I honestly don't see him as an upgrade over what's on the roster. Rambo reminds me of a poor man's Patrick Chung.

Put it this way, if McCourty stays at safety long term I don't think we need a safety. McCourty is and will be a stud at safety. Gregory would be ok beside him while Wilson and/or Ebner learn the nuances. CB at that point becomes a need though.

Rambo is a guy who goes for the knockout hit too often and takes horrendous angles. In an ideal world (value and need) if the Pats take a safety I would like Elam in the 3rd
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Rambo reminds me of Brandon Meriweather. He thinks he's a playmaker, but he's a liability more often. He takes bad angles.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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It's ok value but I honestly don't see him as an upgrade over what's on the roster. Rambo reminds me of a poor man's Patrick Chung.

Put it this way, if McCourty stays at safety long term I don't think we need a safety. McCourty is and will be a stud at safety. Gregory would be ok beside him while Wilson and/or Ebner learn the nuances. CB at that point becomes a need though.

Rambo is a guy who goes for the knockout hit too often and takes horrendous angles. In an ideal world (value and need) if the Pats take a safety I would like Elam in the 3rd
What could have possibly given you any indication that McCourty is and will be a stud at safety? He's been pretty mediocre thus far in his career there.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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Rambo reminds me of Brandon Meriweather. He thinks he's a playmaker, but he's a liability more often. He takes bad angles.
This is actually true. I pondered Elam a lot, but I have a hard time figuring out his value. I love him as a player, but the whole size thing really bother me. He's a bit like Ahmad Black. Great football player, but can he play in the NFL? I'd take Elam over Rambo easily, but not before the fourth. And I have doubts that he'll last to the fourth round.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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This is actually true. I pondered Elam a lot, but I have a hard time figuring out his value. I love him as a player, but the whole size thing really bother me. He's a bit like Ahmad Black. Great football player, but can he play in the NFL? I'd take Elam over Rambo easily, but not before the fourth. And I have doubts that he'll last to the fourth round.
I Agree with ^^

I think the way Elam plays isn't conducive to his size. We already have a problem with a certain smallish safety who is always injured, and I don't like the prospect of having an even smaller guy trying to play the same way. I still like his game though, just not sure how long it will last in the NFL.

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Old 10-31-2012, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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What could have possibly given you any indication that McCourty is and will be a stud at safety? He's been pretty mediocre thus far in his career there.
I don't see how you can say he has been mediocre either. McCourty has awesome range and make up speed. Hell the long TD the Rams got McCourty was closer making a play than Wilson was despite McCourty having a completely different assignment.

I am starting to think it is just something you have against McCourty. You stated previously he was a mediocre CB as well, despite the fact that he was having a great year that was slightly marked by a poor few plays against Baltimore.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Elam is not tall but I would not say he is small. He has some bulk and is way bigger than Ahmad Black. His style of play reminds me of Polamalu. We've had some tough luck at safety but remember we have had an anemic pass rush for years as well as some terrible corner play. There aren't many elite safeties in this league and there is a reason for it, it seems like if a guy isn't Ed Reed you don't want any part of him. I get the frustration but who do you guys like at safety if you aren't high on Elam and hate Rambo?
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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I like Lester in the third or fourth round, but I think he might end up going earlier than that. Kenny Vaccaro is another safety that I like. I just don't want to invest a high draft pick in a safety next year since there doesn't seem to be anyone worth it. Eric Reid will end up getting overdrafted by a whole lot. He's really not that good. Vaughn Telemaque is another player that I like, but that would have to be as an UDFA...
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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I am not a Vaccaro fan personally. Reid is going to be a very good player in this league but he will be drafted in the top 15, he reminds me a lot of Barron coming out last year. Good size, tough, and a lot of tools but some questions about coverage abilities.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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I don't see how you can say he has been mediocre either. McCourty has awesome range and make up speed. Hell the long TD the Rams got McCourty was closer making a play than Wilson was despite McCourty having a completely different assignment.

I am starting to think it is just something you have against McCourty. You stated previously he was a mediocre CB as well, despite the fact that he was having a great year that was slightly marked by a poor few plays against Baltimore.
Listen I understand that cornerbacks are an easy target, but I honestly think it's time to readjust our expectations on McCourty. The guy had a fantastic rookie year which was pretty much the antithesis to what we were expecting based on what the book was on him coming out. I think he can be a consistent contributor in our secondary, but he's simply not their yet.

He's played what 4 games at safety, and took a lot of inconsistent angles from that spot last year. He had a good game like most of the secondary on Sunday, but we shouldn't jump the gun on where he's at long term yet. He hasn't set the world on fire, or really made any plays from his safety spot yet. We'll have to wait until teams start challenging him to see where he really is. When you use the word stud it elicits comparisons to guys who are actually studs from that spot, and clearly McCourty is nowhere near that level.

He has played better at cornerback so far this year, but has been beaten when it has counted in numerous situations not just the Baltimore game. I think mediocre is a fair description of his play. Not terrible like last year, but nothing exceptional like his rookie season.

Lets just call him what he is at this point an inconsistent player who has some versatility. We all hope for more from him, but if you go back and read what's been said the past year+ has been a collection of overhype and excuses.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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McCourty is playing bad at safety, because he's a CB. However, our CBs are deeper than our safeties, so we need him to play safety.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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I am not a Vaccaro fan personally. Reid is going to be a very good player in this league but he will be drafted in the top 15, he reminds me a lot of Barron coming out last year. Good size, tough, and a lot of tools but some questions about coverage abilities.
LSU's Reid? He's been terrible this year.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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He hasn't had the year people expected out of him but I still think he will get drafted high and be a very good pro safety
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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He sucks at coverage. He's a good run stopper, but he's being exposed now that LSU's secondary isn't basically loaded with first rounders.
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