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Old 10-15-2012, 09:53 PM    (permalink
yo123
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Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
I would have a very hard time saying that Harvin was clearly better than Cruz, Nicks, MJD and Wayne.
Cruz and Nicks fine. Wayne is tough because he's been crazy so far this year but I just don't see him doing that over a course of the season. The thing is Harvin doesn't need to be able to get open downfield to make his impact, he's so good at running screens and reverses that even against great D-backs he's able to make things happen every game. That consistency is worth something. Don't think MJD is quite what he once was while I do realize a lot of his dropoff is Jaguar related.

But I was mostly talking about guys like Spiller, Britt, and Bush. You guys might think I'm a homer but honestly the only 2 receivers that I believe are without a doubt better than Harvin right now are AJ and Calvin. I think there's at least an argument to be made about everyone else. Maybe Fitz too.

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Old 10-15-2012, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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Cruz and Nicks fine. Wayne is tough because he's been crazy so far this year but I just don't see him doing that over a course of the season. The thing is Harvin doesn't need to be able to get open downfield to make his impact, he's so good at running screens and reverses that even against great D-backs he's able to make things happen every game. Don't think MJD is quite what he once was while I do realize a lot of his dropoff is Jaguar related.

But I was mostly talking about guys like Spiller, Britt, and Bush.
Spiller is playing out of his mind, I agree with you about Britt and Bush.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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Wow Harvin is really blowing up in reputation. I like him a lot but a top 10 overall player is a bit much. He is a top 10 reciever and some where in the top 15/20 offensive skill players. I love all the ways he can get involved like eltwentyone said.

Its exciting to see him at RB but its crazy to say that he would be a 1000 yard back. He has only 15 carries in 6 games and only had 52 all last year. It's a nice wrinkle but I highly doubt his body could handle the punishment that being a real RB carries.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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If he didn't run as aggressively as he does I would say he could handle 200 or so carries, he's MUCH stronger than his body would indicate. So I guess if you think that would equate to 1000 yards it makes sense.

Not that I would ever want to try to find out though.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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As DK said, Spiller's playing insanely well which makes it hard to pick between him and Harvin for me, and when Britt's on the field he's one of the toughest receivers to cover in the league, because he can go up and get the ball as well as anyone. I would take Harvin over him, but Britt's got a case just like Spiller. Bush's case isn't as strong, but by seasons end it could be for what he's doing with a rookie WR playing QB and a very unspectacular receiving corps.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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To me, running backs will hold more value unless your name is Calvin or AJ Green. Jamaal Charles leads the NFL in rushing and has a 5.1 ypc average. He also has 115+ receiving yards. To me, he's without a doubt more valuable than Harvin. When you start comparing him to other WRs, there's a bunch of other guys i'd rather take that are just as explosive and have different skill sets that i'd prefer. I stick by my original list, and maybe throw in a few of the guys that Rosebud mentioned before i really start having a hard time deciding whether anyone else is better to me, than Harvin. I'd say Top-15 skill player is a little more fair.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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I just can't take Britt seriously with a case over Harvin when he's played the amount of games he has. Staying healthy is a factor you need to look at when evaluating players
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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It's so much easier to replace a runningback, however. It's been said a million times but it bears repeating here. That's why I still hold that Ponder is more important to the Vikings than Harvin (and Harvin is argaubly more important than Peterson...though admittedly I'm not sure I buy that). Value isn't just a matter of what someone can provide for you, it's how valuable those skills are relative to what the general market can provide.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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I definitely get the argument that Ponder has been more important. Harvin has been around for a while now, and while he's had to put this offense on his back plenty it never resulted in the kind of offensive success we've had this year. (I think we're right on the edge of the top 10)

Harvin is having a career year but Ponder overall has been 100x better than he was last year. He's been the difference.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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Here is yards from scrimmage just to add to this discussion.
Yds From Scrimmage
  1. Jamaal Charles KAN 716
  2. Ray Rice BAL 715
  3. A.J. Green CIN 639
  4. Arian Foster HOU 633
  5. Adrian Peterson MIN 628
  6. Wes Welker NWE 622
  7. Marshawn Lynch SEA 619
  8. Percy Harvin MIN 603
  9. C.J. Spiller BUF 594
  10. Reggie Wayne IND 593
I tried to format it but failed
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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You'd take Percy ******* Harvin over every running back in the NFL? That's ******* ********. I don't even know why i take you serious sometimes.
I don't really value any running back very much at this point, and there's no massive standout at this point. Foster is great but he's not incredible or anything. Charles the same. McCoy and Rice I'd be closer to saying yes on, but bah. I just think a weapon like Harvin is far more valuable than a running back on the whole.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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Shady, Rice, Charles, MJD and Spiller have a case over Harvin because of their running and explosiveness there, but also because they're all great out of the backfield and in the case of Shady, Charles and Spiller as deadly in the open field as Harvin.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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It's so much easier to replace a runningback, however. It's been said a million times but it bears repeating here. That's why I still hold that Ponder is more important to the Vikings than Harvin (and Harvin is argaubly more important than Peterson...though admittedly I'm not sure I buy that). Value isn't just a matter of what someone can provide for you, it's how valuable those skills are relative to what the general market can provide.
And that's why i left out guys like Marshawn Lynch and Alfred Morris, who are among the league leaders in YFS, but i'd say are easier to replace due to running style and scheme. To me, guys like Rice, Charles, Foster and McCoy are elite. They're far and away more productive and talented than their peers. Is simple rushing yardage easier to replace? Maybe. But other guys don't provide the same big play ability while remaining the most productive players in the NFL.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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I think a guy who you have to game plan to guard him outside, in the slot, at running back, and on kick returns is more valuable than just about any running back, even those as good out of the backfield as guys like Shady, Charles, and Rice.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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Well i disagree.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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I disagree with MetSox. I would definately take Percy over those dudes. Hell I may take him over DMC.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:21 AM    (permalink
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I disagree with MetSox. I would definately take Percy over those dudes. Hell I may take him over DMC.
Hahaha....
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:22 AM    (permalink
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What has DMC done? Ever? Besides get hurt?
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:57 AM    (permalink
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No, I was laughing at the notion that was even in question. DMC is league average.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:58 AM    (permalink
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O, my mistake. Apologies....carry on good sir.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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Yeah.... DMC can't even hold the jock of guys like Rice, Foster and Charles.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:39 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
Yeah.... DMC can't even hold the jock of guys like Rice, Foster and Charles.
Sure he can, he has spent that much time on sidelines that he ought to be really good at that by now at least...
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