NFL Week 6 Discussion Thread.

[Hines]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...er-dui-arrest/

The Steelers are going to stick it out with Ta'amu.

Surprising. I thought he would really get the ax. I wonder if he'll face any suspension or what not.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by Hines

Surprising. I thought he would really get the ax. I wonder if he'll face any suspension or what not.

If it is in enforced this season, it won't matter anyway because he's been inactive in every game.

[BeerBaron]

Stats of the week for last week:

Stats of the Week No. 1: Detroit beat Philadelphia for the first time in 26 years.

Stats of the Week No. 2: Matt Ryan is 44-21 in the regular season and 0-3 in the postseason.

Stats of the Week No. 3: Carson Palmer is 5-10 as the Raiders' quarterback.

Stats of the Week No. 4: Miami won despite being outrushed by 143 yards at home.

Stats of the Week No. 5: The Giants are on a 5-1 streak versus the Forty Niners.

Stats of the Week No. 6: Robert Griffin had more rushing yards (138) than the entire Minnesota team (94).

Stats of the Week No. 7: Against Texas A&M, Louisiana Tech had 615 yards of offense, scored 57 points, and lost.

Stats of the Week No. 8: Against Tennessee-Martin, Murray State gained 747 yards on offense, made 40 first downs, scored 59 points, never punted and lost. See below.

Stats of the Week No. 9: Since winning the BCS Championship Game, Auburn is 9-10.

Stats of the Week No. 10: From the point at which the Chargers took a 24-0 lead over the Broncos and needed to advance the clock, San Diego coaches called 28 passing plays and 11 rushes.

[bantx]

Norv needs to go.

[Brodeur]

Originally Posted by Nalej

I've been wondering the same thing.

Tiny Darren left.

[Raiderz4Life]

I don't see why Palmer's 1:2 win ratio had to be brough up.

[bigbluedefense]

It's simple guys. Players make plays. Rivers doesn't have the players he used to have.

Rivers used to have tree trunks at WR and a not fat Antonio Gates who could stretch the field, isolate 1 on 1 matchups, and win jump balls. Rivers LOVES throwing it up to his guys and letting them win in the air.

And if the defense played deep, he'd check it down to Sproles who would get a cheap 15 yards on the ground.

Now, he can't do that. He lost his checkdown, and he doesn't have tall wide receivers outside of Floyd to throw it up to (shocker, Floyd is still his favorite WR for this reason).

How many INTs did you see last night where he threw it up, and his guy lost the battle in the air? I think twice if I remember correctly.

This is who Rivers is, these are the type of players he needs. This offensive system is perfect for him, he lacks the arm strength to run an intermediate timing offense, he struggles with option routes so he can't run that kind of system, he needs a vertical simple route offense that Norv runs.

But he also needs a specific type of player to succeed in it, and right now he doesn't have that.

That's why he's struggling. Get him the players he needs, and he can succeed. He's a system qb. He can thrive in the system with the right players, but he needs the right players.

[Auron]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

It's simple guys. Players make plays. Rivers doesn't have the players he used to have.

Rivers used to have tree trunks at WR and a not fat Antonio Gates who could stretch the field, isolate 1 on 1 matchups, and win jump balls. Rivers LOVES throwing it up to his guys and letting them win in the air.

And if the defense played deep, he'd check it down to Sproles who would get a cheap 15 yards on the ground.

Now, he can't do that. He lost his checkdown, and he doesn't have tall wide receivers outside of Floyd to throw it up to (shocker, Floyd is still his favorite WR for this reason).

How many INTs did you see last night where he threw it up, and his guy lost the battle in the air? I think twice if I remember correctly.

This is who Rivers is, these are the type of players he needs. This offensive system is perfect for him, he lacks the arm strength to run an intermediate timing offense, he struggles with option routes so he can't run that kind of system, he needs a vertical simple route offense that Norv runs.

But he also needs a specific type of player to succeed in it, and right now he doesn't have that.

That's why he's struggling. Get him the players he needs, and he can succeed. He's a system qb. He can thrive in the system with the right players, but he needs the right players.

Meachem was supposed to give him that Explosive deep threat, but I think we are seeing that he was somewhat a product of the Saints system.

No mistake Meachem has wheels, and can blow the top off of a coverage. He cleared out a lot of underneath stuff for Gates, McMichael, and their backs; but he's not a great natural hands catcher and he's not great at attacking the ball in the air when the coverage is on him. I think we saw Rivers lob it up to Meachem and he got outmuscled by the DB on a deep post leading to an Interception.

I think over the years the Football circles have kind of Overrated Rivers' deep ball, Vincent Jackson went up and won a lot of Jump ball deep throws, with sheer force for him. You're right the only receiver he has that can do that now is Floyd. Rivers struggled with a lot of the timing throws last night to Meachem, Royal... who are mainly timing Receivers. (talking about quick outs, hitches, inside routes, zone beaters where they need to cross the face of the zone defender and either drag, or settle in the hole)

Can SD bring the type of big Receivers Rivers loves back in the Offense? Maybe they can steal Dwayne Bowe from Free Agency this offseason. They will also need to find a big, athletic TE through the Draft for when Gates starts to wind down on his career. Until then though the Chargers really need to get back to the run game and establish Matthews who IMO is waiting to burst out, that way Play action will help Rivers immensely; and he will also need to get his timing down better with guys like Royal, and Meachem.

[y.f.s.]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

It's simple guys. Players make plays. Rivers doesn't have the players he used to have.

Rivers used to have tree trunks at WR and a not fat Antonio Gates who could stretch the field, isolate 1 on 1 matchups, and win jump balls. Rivers LOVES throwing it up to his guys and letting them win in the air.

And if the defense played deep, he'd check it down to Sproles who would get a cheap 15 yards on the ground.

Now, he can't do that. He lost his checkdown, and he doesn't have tall wide receivers outside of Floyd to throw it up to (shocker, Floyd is still his favorite WR for this reason).

How many INTs did you see last night where he threw it up, and his guy lost the battle in the air? I think twice if I remember correctly.

This is who Rivers is, these are the type of players he needs. This offensive system is perfect for him, he lacks the arm strength to run an intermediate timing offense, he struggles with option routes so he can't run that kind of system, he needs a vertical simple route offense that Norv runs.

But he also needs a specific type of player to succeed in it, and right now he doesn't have that.

That's why he's struggling. Get him the players he needs, and he can succeed. He's a system qb. He can thrive in the system with the right players, but he needs the right players.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[ShutDwn]

Rivers hasn't been good for a year or two, but at least he hasn't been fooled once. NOT EVEN ONCE.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by ShutDwn

Rivers hasn't been good for a year or two, but at least he hasn't been fooled once. NOT EVEN ONCE.

Yep, he doesn't get fooled, he just sucks.

[SolidGold]

Originally Posted by Auron

Meachem was supposed to give him that Explosive deep threat, but I think we are seeing that he was somewhat a product of the Saints system.

No mistake Meachem has wheels, and can blow the top off of a coverage. He cleared out a lot of underneath stuff for Gates, McMichael, and their backs; but he's not a great natural hands catcher and he's not great at attacking the ball in the air when the coverage is on him. I think we saw Rivers lob it up to Meachem and he got outmuscled by the DB on a deep post leading to an Interception.

I think over the years the Football circles have kind of Overrated Rivers' deep ball, Vincent Jackson went up and won a lot of Jump ball deep throws, with sheer force for him. You're right the only receiver he has that can do that now is Floyd. Rivers struggled with a lot of the timing throws last night to Meachem, Royal... who are mainly timing Receivers. (talking about quick outs, hitches, inside routes, zone beaters where they need to cross the face of the zone defender and either drag, or settle in the hole)

Can SD bring the type of big Receivers Rivers loves back in the Offense? Maybe they can steal Dwayne Bowe from Free Agency this offseason. They will also need to find a big, athletic TE through the Draft for when Gates starts to wind down on his career. Until then though the Chargers really need to get back to the run game and establish Matthews who IMO is waiting to burst out, that way Play action will help Rivers immensely; and he will also need to get his timing down better with guys like Royal, and Meachem.

Meachem is a decent WR - somewhat of a bust IMO considering he was a first round pick. The Chargers overvalued him and thought he would make a bigger impact and replace Jackson as a number 1 WR which was a mistake. Didn't they also give Malcolm Floyd an extension? A decent player but over 30.

Gates career has been winding down for the last few seasons - injuries have really hampered him and he isn't the player he was before. They should look north to Stanford to what is going to be a TE pipeline to pick up his eventual successor. He is still an effective player and a Top 10 TE but I think the injuries and age have caught up to him.

Mathews is a decent RB but he is no LT. Rivers had LT still in his prime which really helped his cause. And lets not forget what used to be a great offensive line - Hardwick, Dielman, McNeil were all really good players and Goff was decent. All they have left from that group is Hardwick who is a good player but long in the tooth.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Auron

Meachem was supposed to give him that Explosive deep threat, but I think we are seeing that he was somewhat a product of the Saints system.

No mistake Meachem has wheels, and can blow the top off of a coverage. He cleared out a lot of underneath stuff for Gates, McMichael, and their backs; but he's not a great natural hands catcher and he's not great at attacking the ball in the air when the coverage is on him. I think we saw Rivers lob it up to Meachem and he got outmuscled by the DB on a deep post leading to an Interception.

I think over the years the Football circles have kind of Overrated Rivers' deep ball, Vincent Jackson went up and won a lot of Jump ball deep throws, with sheer force for him. You're right the only receiver he has that can do that now is Floyd. Rivers struggled with a lot of the timing throws last night to Meachem, Royal... who are mainly timing Receivers. (talking about quick outs, hitches, inside routes, zone beaters where they need to cross the face of the zone defender and either drag, or settle in the hole)

Can SD bring the type of big Receivers Rivers loves back in the Offense? Maybe they can steal Dwayne Bowe from Free Agency this offseason. They will also need to find a big, athletic TE through the Draft for when Gates starts to wind down on his career. Until then though the Chargers really need to get back to the run game and establish Matthews who IMO is waiting to burst out, that way Play action will help Rivers immensely; and he will also need to get his timing down better with guys like Royal, and Meachem.

Exactly. He has WRs who can get open at their stems and create separation, but won't win the battle in the air.

To have success with those guys, you need great chemistry, and you need great accuracy down field.

Rivers is an accurate qb, but his limitations don't allow for him to thrive with these kind of weapons. He needs big guys who can fight in traffic and catch those jump balls bc thats what he can throw.

Get him those weapons, and he can thrive. And if you get rid of Norv, you better keep that system, bc that system is built for Rivers. It's why Rivers begged ownership to keep Norv. He knows what Norv's system means to him.

That's why firing Norv has always been a catch 22 for the Chargers.

[BeerBaron]

I hate to break it to Phil, but Norv is done. Would any of us truly be surprised if he were fired today after last night's debacle with other teams also making changes today?

They're 3-3...not terrible, but last night's loss may have broken whatever spirit they may have. There was a moment last night when the Broncos took the lead where you can feel the fortunes of these teams change. The Broncos are heading into a bye week followed by the easier part of their schedule.

The Chargers have a few easy games after their bye too, but it's getting into the 2nd half of the season where the Chargers annually collapse in brutal fashion. I don't see this year being any different.

[Don Vito]

Don't the Chargers usually start like **** then finish strong? Or is it the other way around

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Don Vito

Don't the Chargers usually start like **** then finish strong? Or is it the other way around

They finish strong. Which is why I wouldn't count them out as a wildcard team in a ****** AFC just yet.

They're 3-3. Not 3-8. Let's remember the season is a roller coaster ride. It's far from over.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

They finish strong. Which is why I wouldn't count them out as a wildcard team in a ****** AFC just yet.

They're 3-3. Not 3-8. Let's remember the season is a roller coaster ride. It's far from over.

That is my retort.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

That is my retort.

Duly noted.

But remember, the AFC West still sucks. And the AFC has 1 team above 500 right now.

And the Chargers own December. Just keep it in mind. It's far from over.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by Auron

Meachem was supposed to give him that Explosive deep threat, but I think we are seeing that he was somewhat a product of the Saints system.

No mistake Meachem has wheels, and can blow the top off of a coverage. He cleared out a lot of underneath stuff for Gates, McMichael, and their backs; but he's not a great natural hands catcher and he's not great at attacking the ball in the air when the coverage is on him. I think we saw Rivers lob it up to Meachem and he got outmuscled by the DB on a deep post leading to an Interception.

I think over the years the Football circles have kind of Overrated Rivers' deep ball, Vincent Jackson went up and won a lot of Jump ball deep throws, with sheer force for him. You're right the only receiver he has that can do that now is Floyd. Rivers struggled with a lot of the timing throws last night to Meachem, Royal... who are mainly timing Receivers. (talking about quick outs, hitches, inside routes, zone beaters where they need to cross the face of the zone defender and either drag, or settle in the hole)

Can SD bring the type of big Receivers Rivers loves back in the Offense? Maybe they can steal Dwayne Bowe from Free Agency this offseason. They will also need to find a big, athletic TE through the Draft for when Gates starts to wind down on his career. Until then though the Chargers really need to get back to the run game and establish Matthews who IMO is waiting to burst out, that way Play action will help Rivers immensely; and he will also need to get his timing down better with guys like Royal, and Meachem.

On the first bolded part I agree completely. Big reason why I wanted us to sign Eddie Royal. I wanted him since the moment I knew he was available for our slot WR. He's absolutely perfect for our offense and more specifically Romo and what he loves in a WR. He would have blown up here no doubt. I also think Dez would look much better with a QB like Rivers too but I have explained that a bunch already. Romo would probably never throw to Malcolm Floyd, but he always produces with Rivers.



On the second bolded part, they already did that with Ladarius Green. He is big, athletic, can run and jump with any TE in the league, all he needs is development time which he is getting now. I think he'll be really good so they are set there.


It's funny how a lot of these QB's and offenses have certain schemes, and players that will fit and make everything look great but often it's ignored for whatever reason.

[Denver Bronco56]

I think the QB chemistry is the key part.


Through the last 4 games last year Thomas was leading the league in yards and Tds with Tebow as his QB, but Tebow would go to him when he was going to throw.


Enter having a real QB, and Manning is still giving DT the ball and his stats show it...

Tom Brady when all else fails trusts Welker

I think too many teams figure they can just plug and play WR's and other players in but if the QB is not familar or has the trust in the players it doesnt matter how good they are.

[y.f.s.]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

On the first bolded part I agree completely. Big reason why I wanted us to sign Eddie Royal. I wanted him since the moment I knew he was available for our slot WR. He's absolutely perfect for our offense and more specifically Romo and what he loves in a WR. He would have blown up here no doubt. I also think Dez would look much better with a QB like Rivers too but I have explained that a bunch already. Romo would probably never throw to Malcolm Floyd, but he always produces with Rivers.



On the second bolded part, they already did that with Ladarius Green. He is big, athletic, can run and jump with any TE in the league, all he needs is development time which he is getting now. I think he'll be really good so they are set there.


It's funny how a lot of these QB's and offenses have certain schemes, and players that will fit and make everything look great but often it's ignored for whatever reason.

Every player is a system player.

[bantx]

First of all we can get rid of the fact that River needs big wr's to produce. Are we forgetting the season where he played really well with 5th 6th string wrs all with gates and mcmichaels out too?

Somethings up and I'm beginning to think it's Norv with the playcalling. You can blame rivers for the balls being thrown, but when Norv is calling these plays from where we had Jackson, gates, and floyd out there he could do that all day. When all of them went out Norv adjusted and we still produced. He's calling plays that would have worked if we still had Jackson out there and a 2006 gates.

Norv's playcalling has been pretty freaking bad lately. Throwing when we should be running. He won't balance the offense out when we have a run threat in Mathews.

[MetSox17]

Oh, it's the blame the play calling game!

[Hines]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

They finish strong. Which is why I wouldn't count them out as a wildcard team in a ****** AFC just yet.

They're 3-3. Not 3-8. Let's remember the season is a roller coaster ride. It's far from over.

This is what I try to tell Steeler fans. It's not even the half way point and the team ALWAYS plays their best ball in the second half. Does the team have issues? Yes, as everyone can clearly see. But once the defense gets healthy, I'm sure(and a lot of hope) that this team will be in the thick of things like they always are.

[y.f.s.]

Originally Posted by MetSox17

Oh, it's the blame the play calling game!

My favorite!

How's Schotty doing in St. Louis btw? Oh. You don't say.