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Old 10-23-2012, 03:24 PM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
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Ok im not denying stafford is regressing.. the difference is Stafford cant fall back on his legs, which was a big part of what newton brought to the table.


Newton has been figured out to the point where he isnt able to even use his legs as a threat when he cant pass.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco27 View Post
Ok im not denying stafford is regressing.. the difference is Stafford cant fall back on his legs, which was a big part of what newton brought to the table.


Newton has been figured out to the point where he isnt able to even use his legs as a threat when he cant pass.
Last year Newton averaged 44 yards per game rushing, this year he's averaging 45, and he's lead his team in rushing yards in 4 of their 6 games. I don't think Newtons ability to run is the issue with the Panthers.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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living in SC I get to see all of the panthers games, he is far less of a threat or as dominant running as he was last year... more yards might be the case but is not as impactful.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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If Norv gets canned he'd be a nice OC pick up for Panthers he's great at developing quarterbacks and will use their runningbacks to open up the passing game. Plus Panthers seem to love to pick up ex chargers.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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If Norv gets canned he'd be a nice OC pick up for Panthers he's great at developing quarterbacks and will use their runningbacks to open up the passing game. Plus Panthers seem to love to pick up ex chargers.
Umm... I don't see Cam being a good fit in Norv's version of the "Air Coryell" offense. It take an intelligent QB. That's not Cammy's strength. lol.

The problem with the Panthers is their reluctance to run the ball with their RBs. They need a better playcaller. Cam will be fine once they establish balance.

One thing Cam needs is to shape up is his ego. It's gone beyond "being confident".
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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The difference is that Cam has players around him.... Deangelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart are FAR better than most teams running backs.. the team is not executing.

Cam had almost the same players around him last year....
What players does he have around him? Williams is averaging 3.5 yards per carry and stewart is only at 4.1. Not like they are lighting up the NFL and he is causing them to lose. Neither player is worth the money they got thrown at them. Doubt either of them would make a list of top 10 runningbacks in the NFL.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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Umm... I don't see Cam being a good fit in Norv's version of the "Air Coryell" offense. It take an intelligent QB. That's not Cammy's strength. lol.

The problem with the Panthers is their reluctance to run the ball with their RBs. They need a better playcaller. Cam will be fine once they establish balance.

One thing Cam needs is to shape up is his ego. It's gone beyond "being confident".
He has he arm strength and it's called developing a quarterback, just because in college he was taught to make one read and react in college. A guy like Norv who's shaped Troy Aikman and Rivers into great passers I think can be really beneficial to a guy who runs as much as he does. Look at Vick he was a qb that ran a ton in ATL and later in his career he developed into more of a passer.

You expect Cam to be the same type of qb throughout his whole career and succeed at it? They're doing a poor job at developing him and it's showing this season.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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I fail to see how it is anyone else but Cam's fault... he had a monster rookie year..they addressed Defense in the draft and got players back from injury and the only thing now is he doesnt look like a competent QB and the team is in shambles..
By drafting Luke Kuechly, they addressed their passrush, coverage and run stopping?
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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How can a post that tries to make this conclusion:

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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco27 View Post
The sophomore slump is not what this is...

I dont think for a second this is a sophomore slump issue,
Also include the very definition of a sophomore slump like this:

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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco27 View Post
Newton's first year no one had an offseason or tape on how to defend him... enter his second year and everything that was working his rookie year is being stopped... he isnt the cerebral QB that like a manning or brady..he is trying to get by on his athletic ability and teams are now figuring out how to stop it... and that is why you are seeing him fall flat on his face and lose interest..

but again he let his rookie year get to his head and didnt strive to get better because he assumed the NFL was going to be like HS, College and he was just going to get by.... well teams have the blueprint and Newton cant defy physics and just like the apple, he has fallen back down to earth.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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1) Vick as mentioned early developed into a passer.... he had that one good year 2 and has fallen back to his ATL days where he never developed..


2) What i said could be taken as a sophomore slump, or as a one hit wonder... I think the attitude and player we see is more accurate than his rookie year... Teams have tape on him, take in account that teams didnt really have an offseason last year to study players factored into his fast start last year.. He really needs to develop because his athletic ability is only going to take him so far and if he doesnt start to enjoy the ups and downs and hours it takes studying to be an NFL qb he will end up like a Vince Young.

Michael Vick is a different story and not really comparable. Young caught fire and had a good rookie year and fizzled out, Vick was able to show flashes and progress some what to last in the NFL as long as he has.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Cam is a hard worker. He puts his time into film study. Preparation IMO is not his problem.

Cam's numbers through the first six games of 2012;
23/33, 69%, 301yds, 1 TD/2 INT.
14/20, 70%, 253yds, 1 TD/0 INT.
16/30, 53%, 242 yds, 0 TD/3 INT.
15/24, 62%, 215 yds, 2 TD/0 INT.
12/29, 41%, 141 yds, 0 TD/0 INT.
21/37, 56%, 233 yds, 1 TD/1 INT.

Those numbers are solid IMO. Newton has only had one really bad game passing, otherwise there's nothing to indicate that he's regressed as a passer.
He's not putting up record breaking numbers like his rookie year, but IMO those numbers are good enough for the Panthers to have more than one win this season.
Except for the blowout against the Giants, all Carolina's losses have been by 8 points or less. Three losses were by a total of 11 points.

IMO this team isn't closing well late. That's why I think you hear Cam so frustrated about the lack of a running game.

WIth the money invested, Carolina should be rushing for at least 150 yards/game.

Losing to Atlanta, NYG and Seattle is no great shame. It's only note worthy if your starting center put a full page ad in the local paper predicting a SB.

There are several reasons the Panthers are 1-5. But I don't think Cam is at the top of that list, if at all.

It's damning that Newton is the Panthers leading rusher.

Cam does the Superman pose because that's exactly who Chudzinski expects Cam to be on Sundays.

BTW I think Andy Reid would be a good coordinator choice for Newton, except he isn't a believer in the running game.

The ideal choice for me would be Holmgren. That would be awesome.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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^

You could have almost predicted those numbers by the level of defenses he's seen this year. Using that chart it won't get any better against the Bears.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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Well, it doesn't seem that Longhornslegend's post got through, so let's go over this again:

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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco27 View Post
The sophomore slump is not what this is... Stafford having an off year is because he cant just throw in Megatron everyplay and doesnt have a running game to help.
So you're saying Newton is not having a sophomore slump, although he's a sophomore and is perceived to be slumping. You're saying he's just bad and you're using Stafford as an alternate example of a talented player whose team is letting him down, while you think Newton should be succeeding because he has superior talent around him.

Matthew Stafford is throwing to the most physically gifted wide receiver in the NFL. He is 6'5" and 230 pounds. Newton's number one receiver is 5'9". How can you possibly be twisting "Stafford can't just throw it to Megatron every play" into an argument against Newton when Megatron is 10x the jump ball receiver Steve Smith is? Not to fault Steve Smith, a fine receiver in his own right, but Calvin Johnson is the player you design in Madden so that you can throw it deep to him all the time.

And as for the running game, having running backs on the roster doesn't mean you have a running game. Jonathan Stewart is gaining less than 50 total yards a game, and DeAngelo Williams isn't even getting 35 total yards a game. What's more, neither of them is averaging 10 touches a game. You're right that the PANTHERS should be better, given the investment, but it's downright silly to blame Newton for the way the Panthers have, for the most part, completely abandoned their running game this year. They're forcing Newton to do what Stafford's doing - "**** it, I'm going deep" - except, as I mentioned, Newton doesn't have nearly the downfield weapons. Stafford has the best receiver in the game, a tight end who set a franchise record for receptions last year, and two more solid complementary players in Titus Young and Nate Burleson. You know you'd take Detroit's receiving corps over Carolina's any day of the week.

Quote:
Newton's first year no one had an offseason or tape on how to defend him... enter his second year and everything that was working his rookie year is being stopped... he isnt the cerebral QB that like a manning or brady..he is trying to get by on his athletic ability and teams are now figuring out how to stop it... and that is why you are seeing him fall flat on his face and lose interest..
It's the earlier comparison to Stafford that makes this absurd. Stafford is exactly like Newton in that he tries to get by on athletic ability, and I even think it's fair to say that the rest of it applies to him, too - teams are figuring out how to make him less effective. Stafford's been in the league for 4 years, but last year was his first full season. You should pretty much be calling this a sophomore slump for him, too.

Quote:
I dont think for a second this is a sophomore slump issue, but again he let his rookie year get to his head and didnt strive to get better because he assumed the NFL was going to be like HS, College and he was just going to get by.... well teams have the blueprint and Newton cant defy physics and just like the apple, he has fallen back down to earth.
How would this not apply to Stafford? Quite seriously. Has a record-setting last year for Detroit and now almost halfway through the season has 5 TDs to 6 interceptions. Same as Newton. Except Newton is averaging 8.0 yards per attempt to Stafford's 6.6 AND leading his team in rushing. Cam Newton is doing more for his team than Stafford is. Your evaluation of these guys is pure talking head logic.

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Old 10-23-2012, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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By drafting Luke Kuechly, they addressed their passrush, coverage and run stopping?
Their LB core isn't (and wasn't) the problem. Their DTs are ****. Their DBs are bad (take it from a Patriots fan... we're experts on bad DBs). Their LBs are their best defensive group. Their WRs are inexperienced. They handicapped (literally...) themselves by paying two (over-rated) running backs like they did.

It's not Cam's fault that his team is run by idiots. You don't win in the NFL with 1 person. He has regressed and defensive coordinators have figured him out to a certain extent, but it isn't just Cam falling apart.

His OL is (and has been) falling apart.

------------------------------

Edit: Matthew Stafford is regressing because he's turning into Jimmy "I don't really give a ****" Clausen with a big arm.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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For the record, Stewart and Williams aren't overrated, they're just not being used correctly.

You could plug any RB into a Read Option 'cos all they're expected to do it get 4 yards on the dive. Stewart and Williams tore up the NFL from Pro sets. Chud never runs those.

Anyway hopefully all this is sorted with the new GM.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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For the record, Stewart and Williams aren't overrated, they're just not being used correctly.

You could plug any RB into a Read Option 'cos all they're expected to do it get 4 yards on the dive. Stewart and Williams tore up the NFL from Pro sets. Chud never runs those.

Anyway hopefully all this is sorted with the new GM.
I agree. I think the run game the panthers used to produce would help Cam out a lot.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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He has he arm strength and it's called developing a quarterback, just because in college he was taught to make one read and react in college. A guy like Norv who's shaped Troy Aikman and Rivers into great passers I think can be really beneficial to a guy who runs as much as he does. Look at Vick he was a qb that ran a ton in ATL and later in his career he developed into more of a passer.

You expect Cam to be the same type of qb throughout his whole career and succeed at it? They're doing a poor job at developing him and it's showing this season.
You missed the part where I said it takes an intelligent QB to play in Norv's offense. Cam Newton will NEVER be an intelligent QB. He doesn't have the work ethic or care to be one. Getting by on supreme athleticism is all he'll be and when he's all worn out, he'll be out of the league. We're not talking about a guy who will be like Peyton Manning playing into his late 30's, early 40's.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Cam can anticipate, or throw open his WRs like he did last year. Always seems a second late, leading to passes thrown behind and ints/tip ball.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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one more thing, remember last year when we were praising his OC for putting him in the situtation to win, and put up numbers, what happened?
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
You missed the part where I said it takes an intelligent QB to play in Norv's offense. Cam Newton will NEVER be an intelligent QB. He doesn't have the work ethic or care to be one. Getting by on supreme athleticism is all he'll be and when he's all worn out, he'll be out of the league. We're not talking about a guy who will be like Peyton Manning playing into his late 30's, early 40's.
Not intelligent??
No work ethic?
Getting by on supreme athleticism??

Let me know when you actually post something FACTUAL about Newton.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:02 AM    (permalink
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one more thing, remember last year when we were praising his OC for putting him in the situtation to win, and put up numbers, what happened?
Last year the offense was 70% Air Coryell, 30% read option

This year it's 99% read option

Also Chud got found out after 1 year in Cleveland too.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:56 AM    (permalink
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Not intelligent??
No work ethic?
Getting by on supreme athleticism??

Let me know when you actually post something FACTUAL about Newton.
Forgot to add.... inaccurate arm.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:56 AM    (permalink
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Last year the offense was 70% Air Coryell, 30% read option

This year it's 99% read option

Also Chud got found out after 1 year in Cleveland too.
The bolded assumption is wrong. Chud didnít get figured out in Cleveland. You canít index a decline in unit production to just the coordinator. Derek Anderson was dropped into his lap and Chud installed an offense that highlighted Andersonís best attributes. Andersonís best throws were between the hashmarks and rail shots along the left sideline. So Chud featured those vertical routes and put Anderson in a position to succeed. In his first eight starts, he was 151 of 264 for 2,047 yards with 19 touchdowns and 7 interceptions. At the end of the year, he was 298 of 527 for 3,787 yards with 29 touchdowns and 19 interceptions. Numbers trending down across the board.

The point is, Derek Anderson is Derek Anderson. You can insulate him somewhat, but when the folds are peeled back, heís still the same Derek Anderson. Chud put him on a graduated development course. But, when defenses countered what was on tape, Anderson didnít adapt and died down the stretch. A smoke-and-mirrors approach wonít work forever. Talent wins out.

As far as Carolina goes, the most interesting part of this situation is whether Chud is imposing the zone-read offense on Cam or whether Cam is imposing the zone-read offense on Chud. All we can do is speculate since none of us are inside the locker room. But Chud has a record of being a flexible coordinator and Cam entered the league with questions surrounding his football aptitude, so I wouldnít rush to a definitive judgment on Chud so soon.

As far as their game-calling goes, Iíve seen a lot of people call for their return to smash-mouth football. With what? From what Iíve seen, outside of Gross and a raw rookie in Silatolu, their offensive line is in shambles. You canít just manufacture drive blockers mid-season. Plus, if Cam hasnít earned enough of Chudís trust for multi-set looks, then a one-dimensional formation doesnít stand much chance at long-term success. Your running game might be able to gain a little traction out of an Offset I or similar formation. You better be able to pass out of that formation though, too. Otherwise it isnít going to accomplish much. And passing from those formations is harder. So if Cam is struggling with a predetermined bundle of reads out of the shotgun, it can make an offensive coordinator reluctant to trust him under center.

Now, Iím not suggesting that Chud isnít culpable to a degree. He shares some of the blame here. With his talent, there has to be some drop-back concepts and passing staples that Cam is more comfortable with and can work from. Iím just suggesting Cam shouldnít be absolved of his share. Heís got a supreme skill set, and he had an all-time great rookie season, but he got anointed too soon without answering some of the long-term that came with him.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:02 AM    (permalink
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Not intelligent??
No work ethic?
Getting by on supreme athleticism??

Let me know when you actually post something FACTUAL about Newton.
Yeah, Vince Young is functionally ********. Cam is nothing like that.

He does appear to have some serious character flaws and those seem to indicate that he doesn't respond well to negative perceptions that people project onto him.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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Cam's problem is that he's never really had to deal with much adversity on the football field. Even last season when the Panthers were 6-10, Cam was still ROTY.

This season with much higher TEAM expectations, the only stat anyone cares about is Ws and Ls in Carolina.

His immaturity is not recognizing any issues you have with your OC must be handled behind closed doors, not at a press conference after a game.

I listed Newton's stats for the season to show it's not as if he's playing like a bum. THe Panthers have been really close to winning in most games against some of the better teams in the NFL.

IMO all you can ask from a young QB is to play well enough to win. Expecting that player to literally carry the entire football team like he's Peyton Manning circa the Indy Colts is putting too much on any young QB's plate.

I think Cam needs to have more faith in the system CHud is running, express his desire for more commitment to the running game, and just keep grinding.

He needs to remember this is the same offense that allowed him as a rookie to score 35 TDs and throw for 4K.

Of course losing sucks, but as the face of the franchise Newton has to learn how to handle it.

All the Panthers need to do is win a game and lower the temperature in the Panthers lockerroom.
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