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Old 10-24-2012, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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Cam hasn't played like a total bum, but he hasn't been "solid" either. I can't imagine too many teams would be satisfied with a sub-60% completion percentage and more interceptions than touchdowns. I know Lions fans aren't...
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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Cam hasn't played like a total bum, but he hasn't been "solid" either. I can't imagine too many teams would be satisfied with a sub-60% completion percentage and more interceptions than touchdowns. I know Lions fans aren't...
What isn't solid about these stats, other than you'd like him to have thrown for more TDs??

23/33, 69%, 301yds, 1 TD/2 INT.
14/20, 70%, 253yds, 1 TD/0 INT.
16/30, 53%, 242 yds, 0 TD/3 INT.
15/24, 62%, 215 yds, 2 TD/0 INT.
12/29, 41%, 141 yds, 0 TD/0 INT.
21/37, 56%, 233 yds, 1 TD/1 INT.


Other than the 3 INT game against the Giants and the 41% completion game against Seattle, those passing stats are more than respectable.
THe point being I would list several reasons why the Panthers aren't winning before I got to Cam Newton.
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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What isn't solid about these stats, other than you'd like him to have thrown for more TDs??

23/33, 69%, 301yds, 1 TD/2 INT.
14/20, 70%, 253yds, 1 TD/0 INT.
16/30, 53%, 242 yds, 0 TD/3 INT.
15/24, 62%, 215 yds, 2 TD/0 INT.
12/29, 41%, 141 yds, 0 TD/0 INT.
21/37, 56%, 233 yds, 1 TD/1 INT.


Other than the 3 INT game against the Giants and the 41% completion game against Seattle, those passing stats are more than respectable.
THe point being I would list several reasons why the Panthers aren't winning before I got to Cam Newton.
If you have to throw out 1/3 of games played to get stats to appear respectable, that typically isn't a good sign.

I honestly do think the best comparison for Newton is Ben Roethlisberger, which has been stated by a lot of people. Unfortunately for Cam, he wasn't drafted onto a Super Bowl contender and allowed to just be required to manage games.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...gn=Twitter_atl


Brings up a good point. When Newton struggles, it's all on him. When Stafford struggles, it's because the Bears are a good defense.

Half the **** in this thread is made up like that pre-draft review. The bottom line is winning cures all, and you don't win in the NFL without a good team. The Panthers are not a good team. I'm really not worried about how Newton will be going forward. It might stay ugly for a while because they're losing, but I don't buy the lazy/arrogant/spoiled stuff.

Kobe hates to lose, Michael hated to lose. I can't be convinced it's a bad quality. Back when Kobe was the Lakers, scoring 81 and whatnot, he wasn't considered a great teammate. Now that he has won again, people can't complain.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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He threw for a ton of yards and what not last year, but what gets overlooked is the 17 Ints he had... along with 3 fumbles that is 20 turnovers.


He already has 6 ints this year along with 3 fumbles.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Brings up a good point. When Newton struggles, it's all on him. When Stafford struggles, it's because the Bears are a good defense.
.
This thread is a prime example of that already. Any other QB having struggles and the blame gets deflected a million places before them, but when it's Cam all everyone does is use reasonings that can't be proved and is purely opinions. Nevermind the fact that Stafford's footwork has gone to **** he's struggling because they don't have a running game. Cam struggles because he's entitled, lazy, doesn't read his playbook, and whatever other reason you can name that can't be proved what so ever.


All of a sudden he's Jamarcus Russel and doesn't care about football. I just always wonder why he isn't given the same benefit of the doubt other QB's are given when they struggle. Phillip Rivers looks like garbage this year, is it because he doesn't read his playbook and DC's have caught up to him?
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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Rivers has gone down hill because he lost his WR's that he is used to throwing the jumpballs to, he know is playing with a gimpy Gates and WR's that dont fit what he has had in the past.

Stafford has been a disapointment. plain and simple, but again my point is they are two different players. one is a gunslinging passer.

The other is a running QB. The problem is teams have caught on and he isnt running(scoring) like he did last year and on top of it he isnt passing well..
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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He threw for a ton of yards and what not last year, but what gets overlooked is the 17 Ints he had... along with 3 fumbles that is 20 turnovers.


He already has 6 ints this year along with 3 fumbles.
It's not a question of overlooking, but that you're ONLY looking at Cam Newton and picking at the things you don't like. You're not making accurate comparisons at all. If you're trying to rate a QB, you compare him to his peers. Last year:

Eli Manning had 16 interceptions and lost 4 fumbles. That's 20. He also led the league in game-winning drives and 4th-quarter comebacks. Had 30 total touchdowns to Newton's 35. In other words, he had the same amount of turnovers, less TDs, and his team won the Super Bowl.

You keep bringing up stats without making any arguments. You cannot just ignore what Newton did last year because you've had to wait for over a year to able to criticize his play. Coming back to earth after a rookie season the likes of which has never before been seen is only that, and his team's struggles this year don't license anybody to say, "See, I told you he'd suck." It's just really ignorant and demonstrates nothing so much as a lack of understanding about how NFL teams are built over many seasons.

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Old 10-24-2012, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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He threw for a ton of yards and what not last year, but what gets overlooked is the 17 Ints he had... along with 3 fumbles that is 20 turnovers.


He already has 6 ints this year along with 3 fumbles.
A rookie turned over the ball, I'm shocked. Peyton threw like 28 INTs his rookie year.He must of not studied his playbook.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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Rivers has gone down hill because he lost his WR's that he is used to throwing the jumpballs to, he know is playing with a gimpy Gates and WR's that dont fit what he has had in the past.

Stafford has been a disapointment. plain and simple, but again my point is they are two different players. one is a gunslinging passer.

The other is a running QB. The problem is teams have caught on and he isnt running(scoring) like he did last year and on top of it he isnt passing well..

All your post are basically the same. All I have to do is keep inserting other struggling QB's so you can tell me all the reasons why they are struggling that have nothing to do with them. It's getting old and I don't even want to respond to how lazy of an argument that is.


What your saying might make more sense if Cam had threw for 2000 yards last year and was completely unsuccesful throwing the ball, but that wasn't the case. And he had 14 freaking rushing touchdowns last year, as a QB. Do you realize how stupid that is to be blasting him because he's not on that pace? That's equivalent of blasting Tom Brady for not being on pace for 50 passing touchdowns every season.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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A rookie turned over the ball, I'm shocked. Peyton threw like 28 INTs his rookie year.He must of not studied his playbook.
Right? Or Kurt Warner winning the MVP in 2001 while throwing 22 picks and fumbling 10 times. Not what you want, but obviously the turnovers were the not the barometer of his success.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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The reasonings people bring up (lazyiness, unintelligent) are black stereotypes. Thats why people call 'race card' when you bring them up about Newton. All evidence points tot he contrary but he gets all these labels when his stats are just meh. Its offensive; I cant lie.

At the end of the day the GM just got fired. Newton has not played like an MVP. He has not played like a back-up quarterback either. Everything in Newton's career is going to come down to the improvement of that Panthers team as a whole. This offseason was a joke for them. Lets see where the Panthers are at in a couple of draft classes then bring this up again. Until then this is all opinion and a circle jerk of draft haters while rationalists cant really dispute opinions and are forced to come off as apologists.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Stafford, Luck and Cutler(media doesn't give him a pass and everyone aside from DC) on this board are the only ones allowed to get passes. Remember Stafford only win was against the browns(might of had other wins) and every kept bringing up how well he did against the browns. If it was any other QB aside from the ones mentioned most of the people on this board would been "its only the browns". Cutler has no line or WR's in Chicago get a pass by this board. Sam Bradford struggles in his 2nd year with no line or WR's and he is a bust. Everyone impressed by how well Andrew Luck is playing as a rookie, most were not impressed with Newton's season until they had to near end and still some said teams are starting figure him out.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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I understand the Panthers are not a good team... but they were not last year either, but some how Cam was able to work wonders last year?

I'm in the mindset that he had a fluke year, the NFL hadnt seem his combo of size and speed in a QB... low and behold a year later he is struggling and is depressed under his gatorade towel or doing his superman pose after scoring while still being down 20 points or whatever.


The thread is focused on VY and Newton, I think like VY the league has figured Newton out...

The draft was not ideal for helping a young QB, they should have given him weapons or protection.


If people want to bring up race when discussing VY and Newton. Let me point out by saying Vick got by because he was on a different level of speed then the other guys on the field... and the coaching staff didnt care if their QB rushed for 1000 yards.

RGIII is the perfect QB for the Shannahan offense, which emphisizes mobility on the bootlegs (Exe Jake Plummer, Jay Cutler)

My point is that would be playing the race card... I'm merely stating that Newton could be the next VY, with his attitude from what ive seen in interviews and on the sideline he doesnt come off as a let me put the team on my back when the going gets tough, he comes off as the guy quick to blame other people or just loose interest all together.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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So has the league "figured Stafford out?" Since Stafford is the prototypical pro-style QB, I wonder if maybe this means teams are going to use their running backs more in the throwing game, like having them receive direct snaps, or something, since Stafford is not having success this year. I mean, EVERYBODY knows he's going to throw the ball when the center gives it to him and he doesn't hand it off. He's one-dimensional. It really changes everything, in my opinion. I guess since Stafford has thrown 5 TDs to 6 picks through 7 games, his style of play is obviously not going to work in the NFL, like Vince Young.

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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Staring down one receiver or overthrowing all of your other ones is what Stafford is doing. Im not sure Stafford was as good as advertised, he came from Georgia which was loaded with talent and still put up mediocre numbers but had a cannon arm. The lions needed a QB they took him and wasnt able to stay healthy, he finally does and has a great year. He is a gunslinger and as of late he is trusting his arm too much.

Newton is not able to carry the panthers from what im hearing, but in all honesty there have been numerous QB's that have been able to carry the load on their shoulders when the going gets rough. As of late Newton doesnt look to be that kind of player, it appears he doesnt elevate the players around him since all of you all keep citing he needs help.

Sure his play calling has been bad, but it wasnt the coaches fault that Cam overthrew a guy or missed his WR. Plain and simple is he has made bad decisions and hasnt stepped up to the plate.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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I understand the Panthers are not a good team... but they were not last year either, but some how Cam was able to work wonders last year?

I'm in the mindset that he had a fluke year, the NFL hadnt seem his combo of size and speed in a QB... low and behold a year later he is struggling and is depressed under his gatorade towel or doing his superman pose after scoring while still being down 20 points or whatever.
Last year we had one of the league's best run games. This is in part because of a commitment to the run, as well as the fact that our offensive line could actually move defenders and open lanes. This year we have one of the league's worst run games. That is a great way to put your young, inexperienced quarterback into disadvantageous situations on a constant basis.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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The reasonings people bring up (lazyiness, unintelligent) are black stereotypes. Thats why people call 'race card' when you bring them up about Newton. All evidence points tot he contrary but he gets all these labels when his stats are just meh. Its offensive; I cant lie.

At the end of the day the GM just got fired. Newton has not played like an MVP. He has not played like a back-up quarterback either. Everything in Newton's career is going to come down to the improvement of that Panthers team as a whole. This offseason was a joke for them. Lets see where the Panthers are at in a couple of draft classes then bring this up again. Until then this is all opinion and a circle jerk of draft haters while rationalists cant really dispute opinions and are forced to come off as apologists.
I can only speak for myself, but your post couldn't be farther from the truth if you're responding to my comments about Cam. When Cam was a draft prospect I was in his corner BIG TIME... In this forum, the debate then was Newton vs Locker and I made plenty of claim why I thought Cam was and would be better. So draft hater? No sir.

The racist thing is just a cop out excuse. I've got brown skin myself. I don't know why that was even brought up. If the criticism is accurate, then it's not being racist. It's just true. When you think of intelligent QBs, is Cam anywhere near the top of your list? Cam is his own person and he's got plenty of things to improve on. All of which will help his team. Whatever stereotypes might exist, it's not the reason for the perception of him. He's brought it on himself. He's an elite talent, but he's not the smartest QB. Mental strength is not his forte. Just look how he conducts himself at his post game press conferences. That kind of sulky yet cocky attitude is a reflection of the fact that he doesn't get it. He might be a great rah rah guy in moments, but he's not a great leader. He said "things have to change". He's right... but I don't think he realizes that it starts with him. He can't just rely on his athletic ability to get by. He's got to take his game to the next level and that's the mental level. He's got to understand what defenses are doing. He's gotta get better reading schemes, calling audibles, making adjustments, making good decisions with the ball and get all the film study in that he can. He's gotta develop a relationship with his receivers that's special. blah blah blah... there's a million things that Cam can do to get this team winning again.

His raw talent can take him far, but he's got to mold it and develop the mental part of the game to take it to the next level... or else he will end up continuing to fail. It's not just about talent. People love to blame talent and credit talent for too much in this game. Sometimes it's not about new offseason moves as much as it is about offseason improvement from the guys already in the lockerroom. Coaches included.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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What evidence has their ever been of Cam being lazy though? His body is chiseled out of stone, and he's made huge leaps as a passer from his year in college, to the debacle at the combine, to being a very good passer for a rookie QB.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Cam doesn't strike me as lazy. I'm not sure who is saying that, but there isn't any evidence to strike that conclusion. He does seem like a guy that likes to voice his opinion on certain matters, especially if the team is losing which he isn't used to. I could see why some folks might believe he's pointing the finger and questioning his leadership. Whatever. The entire team is in shambles, and personally I'm not a fan of the offense they run. Like one writer put it, it relies too much on the big play and when that doesn't happen they don't have a rhythm.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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The guy takes losing hard and puts blame on himself and this is an issue? I guess instead of sulking on the sidelines he should just joke and smile cause losing is no big deal right?
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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Cam is gonna be a damn good QB one day. I really dont see what the big deal is he plays for a horrible team and has played in 20 something games. Give the man some time to get right, this is the kind of adversity that makes you a good QB right here.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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It's just crazy to argue Cam Newton has had the level of success he enjoyed at Auburn and his brief stint in the NFL only because he's 'physically gifted'.

And it's even more bizarre to draw a corollary between Cam's emotional immaturity and his intellectual aptitude.

FWIW, if you're going to call an athlete lazy or stupid, you better have more evidence than he gave a bad press conference after a game, or that you didn't like his demeanor.

Do you know how much preparation a starting NFL QB has to do every week OFF THE FIELD to get ready to play on Sundays?? The classroom meetings, the film cutups from previous games, the scouting reports for the upcoming opponents, learning the new game plan for the next game, AND individual film study on top of all of this.

This guy isn't Mike Vick in Atlanta. Or VY when he was with Tennessee. Or Jamarcus Russell with the Raiders. All three of these QBs had documented reputations for being both ill prepared and unwilling to do what most NFL QBs do to get ready to play on Sundays.

Cam's rookie season was a testament to his raw athletic ability, his pure quarterbacking skills, and the EXTRA WORK he put in during a shortened offseason and during the regular season.

We aren't talking about a RB here.
A rookie QB who throws for 4K is processing the game at a different level mentally than most players. And there's no way a young QB with only one starting season of major college football plays as well as Newton did as a rookie without knowing his playbook inside and out.

Lazy and stupid??
Get real.

You just can't make a claim like that without some evidence.
Without real evidence, the critique sounds like a slur.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Lazy and stupid? Is reading comprehension really that bad or is it exaggeration that you seek?
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
I can only speak for myself, but your post couldn't be farther from the truth if you're responding to my comments about Cam. When Cam was a draft prospect I was in his corner BIG TIME... In this forum, the debate then was Newton vs Locker and I made plenty of claim why I thought Cam was and would be better. So draft hater? No sir.

The racist thing is just a cop out excuse. I've got brown skin myself. I don't know why that was even brought up. If the criticism is accurate, then it's not being racist. It's just true. When you think of intelligent QBs, is Cam anywhere near the top of your list? Cam is his own person and he's got plenty of things to improve on. All of which will help his team. Whatever stereotypes might exist, it's not the reason for the perception of him. He's brought it on himself. He's an elite talent, but he's not the smartest QB. Mental strength is not his forte. Just look how he conducts himself at his post game press conferences. That kind of sulky yet cocky attitude is a reflection of the fact that he doesn't get it. He might be a great rah rah guy in moments, but he's not a great leader. He said "things have to change". He's right... but I don't think he realizes that it starts with him. He can't just rely on his athletic ability to get by. He's got to take his game to the next level and that's the mental level. He's got to understand what defenses are doing. He's gotta get better reading schemes, calling audibles, making adjustments, making good decisions with the ball and get all the film study in that he can. He's gotta develop a relationship with his receivers that's special. blah blah blah... there's a million things that Cam can do to get this team winning again.

His raw talent can take him far, but he's got to mold it and develop the mental part of the game to take it to the next level... or else he will end up continuing to fail. It's not just about talent. People love to blame talent and credit talent for too much in this game. Sometimes it's not about new offseason moves as much as it is about offseason improvement from the guys already in the lockerroom. Coaches included.
I no way does my first paragraph explain anything in regards to Cam Newton, an individual's,play. Im just expressing my thoughts on how I feel when I see those 'trigger words' come up. Youre gonna get that feeling out of a lot of people when that description comes up.

This year has been a bust for the Panthers so far. Now that I think about it I couldnt be more excited for Newton now. They can bring in the GM that knows how to build around Newton's talents. New gm means new head coach too(could anyone else see Reid ending up here somehow as some cruel joke from God?) And the Panthers ownership can get the people in place to ensure Newton's success provided he is able to hold up his end of the bargain. The job for the new front office wont be easy(seriously who spends that much on running backs? Its like they forgot the whole 'super tandem backfield' fad isnt a big thing anymore).Keep an eye on the Carolina Panthers looking into the future. The Panthers organization could go very far or plummet in the next decade.

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