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Old 10-25-2012, 01:12 AM    (permalink
niel89
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Newton isn't lazy or stupid and I don't think anyone has said that. The race accusations are garbage on both sides. This

However, working out physically isn't the same thing as doing the grunt work in the class room. He obviously puts in the work on his body and is a cut up tank of a QB on the field. Putting the boring hours in the film room and in the playbook are what make the best QBs stand above their peers, and I don't think that Newton will put the effort into the ugly work that would push himself into the top tiers where he should be with his talent.

Frankly, I think the guy enjoys his own success too much. He probably will become a very good/great Qb, but I don't think he becomes an elite QB.

The guy has a big ego and is immature right now. He will grow up and not be so emotional at times, but he still will probably have an ego. His situation sucks right now but he needs to man up and not call out his team in public like that.

Honestly I think his raw talent is immense enough to have carried him through his college success and a lot of his success in his rookie year. He destroyed the SEC, but I'm not going to act like it was in a complicated offense making 3+ read a play.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:17 AM    (permalink
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However, working out physically isn't the same thing as doing the grunt work in the class room. He obviously puts in the work on his body and is a cut up tank of a QB on the field. Putting the boring hours in the film room and in the playbook are what make the best QBs stand above their peers, and I don't think that Newton will put the effort into the ugly work that would push himself into the top tiers where he should be with his talent.
But see, how do you know he's not putting in the required time in the film room? What is your basis for this conclusion? Just because he's struggling on the gridiron? There have been countless quarterbacks that have had opportunities in the NFL and have probably studied film to death and did more than what was required in the classroom, but that doesn't necessarily translate to greatness in the NFL. It won't fix instincts in the context of a game, or spotty accuracy on throwing. It's not that simple. There are so many variables other than yourself required for you to be successful. Especially in a team oriented sport. Some things can be controlled by the individual, and others can't.
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:03 AM    (permalink
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I think Moon did make a decent point in comparing Newton to Cutler. In terms of playing style and demeanor, I see a lot of similarites there. I dont really see a whole lot of parallels b/w Vince and Cam in terms of their playing styles/demeanors. They were both great runners, but even have very different running styles, w/ Vince being much more of a finesse runner than Cam. And they are similar heights, but Cam has a much thicker build than Vince. And as far as the way they operate as passers, its not even close. And while they have both showed immaturity, it has come out in very different ways. I think the Cutler comparison holds very true in that Cam gets kinda poutty. And if he wants to be a great leader, he needs to learn not do that.
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:54 AM    (permalink
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But see, how do you know he's not putting in the required time in the film room? What is your basis for this conclusion? Just because he's struggling on the gridiron? There have been countless quarterbacks that have had opportunities in the NFL and have probably studied film to death and did more than what was required in the classroom, but that doesn't necessarily translate to greatness in the NFL. It won't fix instincts in the context of a game, or spotty accuracy on throwing. It's not that simple. There are so many variables other than yourself required for you to be successful. Especially in a team oriented sport. Some things can be controlled by the individual, and others can't.
Yes there are brainiacs who got by and not been successful in the NFL, but the difference between them and Cam is Cam is a naturally superior talent that carries him a long ways. His success is not happenstance. He truly is a great talent.

What people are trying to say is that he needs to take his game to another level mentally. Let's not kid ourselves here. We're talking about learning habits that start early. Here's a guy who at Auburn used a very simplistic numbering system to run their plays. He entered the league behind the curve. To his credit he's probably come a very long ways... but more is needed. He can DEFINITELY get there... at least to the point of being successful. Can he get to that top tier level? Probably not. It's not unreasonable to have doubts about him being the next Peyton Manning brain wise... but he doesn't have to be.

Cam has a lot of things you love to see in a QB. However, he has areas to improve in too. For a guy who likes to refer to himself as the Icon, he's got a lot of self improvement to do. Attitude, maturation, leadership, & football smarts is a good place to start.

*Spit that gum out too, Cam*
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:05 AM    (permalink
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Yes there are brainiacs who got by and not been successful in the NFL, but the difference between them and Cam is Cam is a naturally superior talent that carries him a long ways. His success is not happenstance. He truly is a great talent.
So? That doesn't mean anything. Regardless of how much physical talent you have, that doesn't mean your instincts will be top notch when you need them to be. Let's not act like their haven't been quarterbacks in the NFL with great physical tools that did study very hard, but despite that, their success didn't translate to the field. Newton certainly isn't the first. And even if one did want to take that angle, there isn't a basis for that conclusion seeing as how none of us are around Cam Newton long enough to take that stance. It's essentially an uneducated guess.

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What people are trying to say is that he needs to take his game to another level mentally. Let's not kid ourselves here. We're talking about learning habits that start early. Here's a guy who at Auburn used a very simplistic numbering system to run their plays. He entered the league behind the curve. To his credit he's probably come a very long ways... but more is needed. He can DEFINITELY get there... at least to the point of being successful. Can he get to that top tier level? Probably not. It's not unreasonable to have doubts about him being the next Peyton Manning brain wise... but he doesn't have to be.

Cam has a lot of things you love to see in a QB. However, he has areas to improve in too. For a guy who likes to refer to himself as the Icon, he's got a lot of self improvement to do. Attitude, maturation, leadership, & football smarts is a good place to start.

*Spit that gum out too, Cam*
For me, I think it starts with the entire team and not just Cam. Newton needs to do his part to in being a better leader and watching his words in press conferences and such, and be a better player, but that entire team is a letdown. Especially on offense. He shouldn't be the focal point and I think some pressure needs to definitely be taken off of him. The offense relies on just him to do well and the rest to follow, and it shouldn't be that way.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:09 AM    (permalink
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I think Cam's just needs to have a short memory and he'll be fine. You can't have success at any level as a professional athlete if you dwell on your failures.

After a loss, you just say "tough game but it's in the past and we have to regroup and come out with a strong week of practice and get ready for next Sunday". Boom, next question. The worst thing that an athlete can do in a public setting is have a "dear diary" moment. The Panthers PR dept needs to do their jobs and remind him of this to avoid all this silly armchair psychology that's going on in the media right now with respect to Cam.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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From the first post in this thread, Iíve admitted that I donít know whatís going on in the backrooms of Carolina. And, to the people that are railing against some of the more critical posts of Cam, the inverse of your premise is also true. You donít know Cam isnít struggling to do those things right now. Youíre not in the team meetings. Not in the positional meetings. Not in the film room. Not in the huddle. Not in earshot of in-game adjustments being made. Not in the locker room post-game. Unless a member of the Panthers organization is lurking the DC boards in the middle of the regular season and feels compelled to clear Camís name, weíre just left to speculate. That goes for both sides. Youíre arguing something that canít be proven.

As far as the ďcharacterĒ issues, I think itís clear that Newton doesnít suffer from laziness. Iíve got the impression that heís a driven individual and Iíve never seen something that would indicate a lethargic work ethic. Along those lines, I loved his intangible package at Auburn. There were times where Auburn was thrust into volatile situations and Cam responded with impressive poise. He handled his business while allegations over his signature ran rampant. He didnít wilt under pressure when the Tigers fell behind the Tide 24-0 with eight minutes left in the second quarter in Tuscaloosa. He answered the bell and led the surge and saved their season. You would prefer that he didnít mope and articulate those acute feelings, but like I said, itís livable for an organization because itís coming from a place of frustration. Heís human. He hates losing and takes it hard.

And I never questioned mental aptitude. I questioned football aptitude. He came out of high school and sat at Florida. Then he went to Blinn College and started on the JUCO circuit. Then committed to Auburn and had one season of experience in a Malzahn offense that simplified things at the college level. In Auburnís no-huddle, the offense would just look to the sideline and pick out the appropriate poster. What was on the poster? Numbers. Like ď20Ē or ď30Ē or ď40Ē. That was what their scheme was. And then it emphasized their execution.

After the draft, with his high school and JUCO, and Auburn experience, Cam walks onto an NFL practice field and the transition is immediate. Even with something as simple as huddling procedure. Now he has to perfect a consistent, meticulous, monotonous procedure after Auburn stressed pressing the pace and never lining up in a huddle. He has to assimilate with the new flow of practice. He has to iron out some of the inconsistencies in his mechanics. He has to retain a set of more advanced passing concepts. And he has to master NFL verbiage. The cadence, the formations, the calls, the protections, the snap count, the shifts, the alerts, the check-offís, the check-with-meís etc.

So something as simple as ď20Ē or ď30Ē might have just turned into ďOpen I Right Jab 24-PowerĒ or ďGun Left Ying Two Waggle Eight X Eagle GoĒ. And he might have to alert ď43 BuzzĒ or ď43 SupĒ. And then he has to make the rest of his reads. And he has to do all of that within the clock. Thatís just for two calls. Now consider the volume of an NFL book.

Itís not a slam to Cam if heís having trouble compartmentalizing the game. Itís natural. I was a fan of his talent as a prospect. Not just his arm strength, but he showcased natural touch, too. The Panthers were justified taking him number one overall after vetting him with interviews. And, given his low rep load in college, Iíd be more surprised if he didnít have these struggles. Now he needs to respond to the adverse conditions.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:41 AM    (permalink
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I love Cudders.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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FWIW, if you're going to call an athlete lazy or stupid, you better have more evidence than he gave a bad press conference after a game, or that you didn't like his demeanor.

Lazy and stupid??
Get real.

You just can't make a claim like that without some evidence.
Without real evidence, the critique sounds like a slur.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5783051

He got caught cheating 3 times while at Florida. Sounds like real evidence of being lazy AND stupid.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5783051

He got caught cheating 3 times while at Florida. Sounds like real evidence of being lazy AND stupid.
Not necessarily as it pertains to football. Many to most college football players view the academic aspect as simply something they must endure to play. A player being lazy when it comes to academics certainly does not mean that as a football player he is lazy.
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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I haven't read all the way through so forgive if this has been posted but ESPN last night showed how his key stats are virtually identical to last years. comp % - TD/Int - ypa - W/L.

They can't run the ball. The defense is worse. Smitty is aging. Olsen is overrated. Chudzinski is again crashing after looking like an offensive genius. (see Clev 07/08) Hurney has rightfully been fired. Rivera is next. But Cam is another Vince Young. Ok.
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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From the first post in this thread, Iíve admitted that I donít know whatís going on in the backrooms of Carolina. And, to the people that are railing against some of the more critical posts of Cam, the inverse of your premise is also true. You donít know Cam isnít struggling to do those things right now. Youíre not in the team meetings. Not in the positional meetings. Not in the film room. Not in the huddle. Not in earshot of in-game adjustments being made. Not in the locker room post-game. Unless a member of the Panthers organization is lurking the DC boards in the middle of the regular season and feels compelled to clear Camís name, weíre just left to speculate. That goes for both sides. Youíre arguing something that canít be proven. .
Which is perfectly fine. The issue for me is, when it comes to Cam you hear things thrown out about him regarding his work ethic, laziness, needs to read the playbook more, anything that knocks his mental aptitude. Any other QB in the NFL who has stuggled recently, you don't hear those same concerns, why is that?


Why is that we don't hear those same uneducated guesses about any other QB's? It's fine to bring up that point and question it, I just wonder why it never happens with anyone else. It's almost as if he's being questioned on that due to how good of an athlete he is.


I didn't hear anyone say those things about Josh Freeman last year, nobody has ever said it about Mark Sanchez, nobody says it about Stafford or Rivers this year, nobody said it about Kurt Warner, nobody said it about Eli when he was throwing picks like hot potatoes. But the first time Cam starts to struggle(which isn't unusual for a QB to go through either way) you hear all these accusations which nobody ever questioned about him before.


When Russell came out tons of people questioned him on that, it was the primary question, so when he started to struggle the correlation made a ton of sense. With Cam that wasn't the case at all. My issue has always been how with every single one of these QB's the majority of the blame has either went into surrounding parts of the team, offensive coordinator, or just a "down season" which is a general term none of which comment on intelligence, work ethic, coordinators have "caught up", or any of the reasons we hear in this thread.


Maybe he doesn't work as hard, or he is lazy, your right we don't know, but I do know it's unfair to assume any of those things about just him when the same isn't done for every other QB who has went through struggles.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Because stupid people say stupid things for stupid reasons.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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There are white QBs who are stupid and get hammered for it too.

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Old 10-25-2012, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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Big Ben doesn't, and he's probably the dumbest starting QB in the league.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Big Ben doesn't, and he's probably the dumbest starting QB in the league.
Big Ben is a dummy off the field, but not on it. ...and he definitely has gotten hammered for the things he's done off it.
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Big Ben is a dummy off the field, but not on it. ...and he definitely has gotten hammered for the things he's done off it.
He's a dummy on it too. He's just such an ox, that his unorthodox style of backyard football works.

Well, I shouldn't say he's a dummy on it. That's harsh. But he's not in the upper tier of cerebral qbs in this league.

Btw, Romo is half white. His real name is Antonio Romero. He's half Mexican I believe.
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5783051

He got caught cheating 3 times while at Florida. Sounds like real evidence of being lazy AND stupid.
Cam wasn't the#1 overall pick because of anything he did or did not do at FLA.
BTW cheating is usually a sign of laziness, not necessarily stupidity.

I've moved beyond Cam Newton's aborted start to his college football career at Florida. You should try to do the same.

There have been superstar QB recruits in the recent past who fell on their faces and their chosen schools, namely former Seminole QB Adrian McPherson, former LSU Ryan Perrilloux, former OU QB Rhett Bromar.
Unlike Newton, none of these guys were able to salvage their football careers.
Newton isn't that 'guy'.
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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Oh how could he? He cheated on exams?! Bc that NEVER happens in college by student athletes.

Give me a break.
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I don't see how this is any different than Jay Cutler, except that Newton is a huge running threat and won a lot of accolades in college, so he's more prominent in the media discussion by default, and he has a bigger mouth in front of the camera than Cutler does. Other than that, you take away Newton's running bonus and they have awfully similar styles of play. Just like Cutler, you're probably always going to have some people saying, "AH, I don't want THAT GUY on MY team! Attitude problems, inaccurate, streaky, questionable decision-making when he thinks he needs to make a play... Yada yada yada" but that has nothing to do with the fact that he's definitely going to play in the NFL for a decade. In other words, again - if you're building your own team, you are FREE -

FREE!

..to pass on Newton. And for your team's philosophy, you may find yourself with perfectly good reason to. But comparing him to VY is not analysis, it's just talking ****. I mean, why not compare Cutler to Ryan Leaf? Oh right, because Cutler is like what Leaf might be like if he hadn't flamed out.

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Old 10-25-2012, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I don't see how this is any different than Jay Cutler, except that Newton is a huge running threat and won a lot of accolades in college, so he's more prominent in the media discussion by default, and he has a bigger mouth in front of the camera than Cutler does. Other than that, you take away Newton's running bonus and they have awfully similar styles of play. Just like Cutler, you're probably always going to have some people saying, "AH, I don't want THAT GUY on MY team! Attitude problems, inaccurate, streaky, questionable decision-making when he thinks he needs to make a play... Yada yada yada" but that has nothing to do with the fact that he's definitely going to play in the NFL for a decade. In other words, again - if you're building your own team, you are FREE -

FREE!

..to pass on Newton. And for your team's philosophy, you may find yourself with perfectly good reason to. But comparing him to VY is not analysis, it's just talking ****. I mean, why not compare Cutler to Ryan Leaf? Oh right, because Cutler is like what Leaf might be like if he hadn't flamed out.
I think we're already way past comparing Newton to Young. That was ridiculous from the start.

It's what he can do to get better.... and imo, it starts with his head. Others think his head is fine and that it's his teammates faults. ...and others are just making up reasons to bring up "racisim in football" that have no relevance to this thread.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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I won't argue about Newton's immaturity, but I do think he has enough raw (football) intelligence and work ethic to be a great NFL QB.

No he's not there yet.
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:46 AM    (permalink
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Cam wasn't the#1 overall pick because of anything he did or did not do at FLA.
BTW cheating is usually a sign of laziness, not necessarily stupidity.

I've moved beyond Cam Newton's aborted start to his college football career at Florida. You should try to do the same.

There have been superstar QB recruits in the recent past who fell on their faces and their chosen schools, namely former Seminole QB Adrian McPherson, former LSU Ryan Perrilloux, former OU QB Rhett Bromar.
Unlike Newton, none of these guys were able to salvage their football careers.
Newton isn't that 'guy'.
I'm not saying Newton is the only person ever to cheat in college and I wasn't trying to dwell on it. I was simply giving an example of something he did that I consider to be lazy and stupid because you were making it seem like it was completely baseless to question his brain. (You, yourself admitted it was at least a sign of laziness) While I very well could be wrong, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to guess that he possibly struggles or avoids the "academic" parts of football when he's shown in the past that he has no problems taking short cuts in the class room.

I'm also not saying he's some scrub who will be out of the league. Obviously he's got a lot more going on than the guys you mentioned because he's already shown he can be successful. Like D-Unit said, it's more about what he needs to improve on. Is it possible that he is completely different than the lazy person he appeared to be at Florida and now puts in all kinds of extra time studying defenses? Absolutely. Is it also possible that he could be giving more effort off the field? None of us are in the film room or team meetings, so we can only speculate...but you have to admit that the chance exists.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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This thread makes me want to punch people.

I also <3 Cudders.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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This thread makes me want to punch people.

I also <3 Cudders.
If you don't love Cudders then you deserve a punch in the face.
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