New England Patriots Discussion - Page 387

AntoinCD · 10-25-2012, 11:45 AM

This is quite possibly one of the worst things I have ever seen defensively. The Pats drop 7 into zones, the Jets send 3 WR/TEs out and still complete a 20+ pass to Keller.

4 defensive players appear to covering ghosts

descendency · 10-25-2012, 01:05 PM

Yay for soft zone coverages!

To be fair, the LB (second circle from the top on the second level) is likely responsible for Keller there. I can't tell who it is though.

The safety and near side corner are actually doing what they are supposed to be doing.

BradysKnee · 10-25-2012, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

This is quite possibly one of the worst things I have ever seen defensively. The Pats drop 7 into zones, the Jets send 3 WR/TEs out and still complete a 20+ pass to Keller.

4 defensive players appear to covering ghosts

Wow this is really bad. Generally in zone defense you 'float' in this kind of situation. Akin to an overload or rollout. This siutation is no different. The defensive guys need to be aware of this ****. What a waste. I expect teams have/will do this to expose the one on one matchups and lack of blitz (i read somewhere we're blitzing 7% of the time or something).

Razor · 10-25-2012, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

This is quite possibly one of the worst things I have ever seen defensively. The Pats drop 7 into zones, the Jets send 3 WR/TEs out and still complete a 20+ pass to Keller.

4 defensive players appear to covering ghosts

You have to keep in mind that this is clearly a play designed to beat the zone coverage schemes BB employs. The deep route clears the sector the TE inhabits right behind the linebackers. There's not much the players could've done in this situation IMO, it's all scheme. This is typical BB bend don't break defense. The underneath receiver is covered as well in the sense that he might catch the ball, but it'll be for a minimal gain. I can probably find 15-20 situations where the coverage is worse than here in that game alone.

AntoinCD · 10-26-2012, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

You have to keep in mind that this is clearly a play designed to beat the zone coverage schemes BB employs. The deep route clears the sector the TE inhabits right behind the linebackers. There's not much the players could've done in this situation IMO, it's all scheme. This is typical BB bend don't break defense. The underneath receiver is covered as well in the sense that he might catch the ball, but it'll be for a minimal gain. I can probably find 15-20 situations where the coverage is worse than here in that game alone.

Yeah that's my point. Realistically the players played this one how it was coached. The Jets were in max protect and only sent 3 guys into routes. Look at Hightower's angle on Greene. He played this one really well - kept the guy in front of him and was there to make a tackle for a minimal gain should the ball be thrown to him.

Likewise, McCourty and Dennard play the deep route really well.

It was a good call to beat a defensive scheme like this. I'm not so much complaining about that. However when you bear in mind the that it is Lex Hilliard and Jason Smith (extra TE I believe) then the close side of the field should realise that Smith in particular isn't a threa to come out into the play.

AntoinCD · 10-26-2012, 01:27 PM

Ras-I Dowling to IR for the second year running which is just ******* great. I wonder if the Pats will be looking to trade for someone now

cmarq83 · 10-26-2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

Ras-I Dowling to IR for the second year running which is just ******* great. I wonder if the Pats will be looking to trade for someone now

I would love for them to trade for Mike Jenkins, but there is 0% chance that happens. This ******* blows. Just means more Arrington I guess.

AntoinCD · 10-26-2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarq83

I would love for them to trade for Mike Jenkins, but there is 0% chance that happens. This ******* blows. Just means more Arrington I guess.

Yay!!!!

It is a damning testiment to the ability to bring in guys who can play well at the position when you think that on Sunday the Pats best CB may well be a 7th round rookie player.

cmarq83 · 10-26-2012, 02:45 PM

Remember in the offseason when everyone was saying how we were going to be fine at CB because McCourty was going to bounce back, Dowling was going to stay healthy, and that Kyle Arrington was a good player?....

AntoinCD · 10-26-2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarq83

Remember in the offseason when everyone was saying how we were going to be fine at CB because McCourty was going to bounce back, Dowling was going to stay healthy, and that Kyle Arrington was a good player?....

No better time for optimism than before the **** hits the fan.

I honestly had hoped Dowling would stay healthy, however even when he was he was buried on the depth chart. Arrington just has no business as a boundary corner. He can be adequate to good in a physical slot role, however outside he is a liability. I still maintain McCourty is a quality player at CB, however with Chung and Gregory hurt I don't see him moving from safety for the forseeable future. They tried Ebner and Wilson back there and it was a monumental fuckup

FlyingElvis · 10-26-2012, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

Yay!!!!

It is a damning testiment to the ability to bring in guys who can play well at the position when you think that on Sunday the Pats best CB may well be a 7th round rookie player.

lmao. I understand the frustration but we both know that's not fair. Dennard was 2nd round talent with a box of rocks for a brain. He was a steal* in the 7th.

*unless/until his assault case lands him in the clink.

descendency · 10-26-2012, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

Ras-I Dowling to IR for the second year running which is just ******* great. I wonder if the Pats will be looking to trade for someone now

Time to move on, I guess. Tons of talent but he's a total ***** about injuries. He's playing limited minutes and still can't stay healthy for an entire season? :/

cmarq83 · 10-26-2012, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

Time to move on, I guess. Tons of talent but he's a total ***** about injuries. He's playing limited minutes and still can't stay healthy for an entire season? :/

2 season ending injuries in what 150 total snaps?

This one stings because you figured he was the last card the Pats had to turn this abortion of a secondary around. So many good cornerbacks were available in the offseason, but we passed them all up. Hindsight is 20/20, but it looks now like passing them up was a huge swing and miss.

Jvig43 · 10-26-2012, 03:38 PM

We should just go out and sign Ty Law. I'll gladly take him in his 40s than any of these schmucks.

BradysKnee · 10-26-2012, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

You have to keep in mind that this is clearly a play designed to beat the zone coverage schemes BB employs. The deep route clears the sector the TE inhabits right behind the linebackers. There's not much the players could've done in this situation IMO, it's all scheme. This is typical BB bend don't break defense. The underneath receiver is covered as well in the sense that he might catch the ball, but it'll be for a minimal gain. I can probably find 15-20 situations where the coverage is worse than here in that game alone.

Right but zones are meant to adjust most of the time. The play is like was said a zone overload play to make a player make a bad decision. Still, the backside safety should've played over a bit and it looks like we let the wrong guy go free. The sad part is I don't know if this is coaching or lack of talent or both. I wish BB wasn't so opposed to bringing in fresh blood coaching wise to the D.

BradysKnee · 10-26-2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

No better time for optimism than before the **** hits the fan.

I honestly had hoped Dowling would stay healthy, however even when he was he was buried on the depth chart. Arrington just has no business as a boundary corner. He can be adequate to good in a physical slot role, however outside he is a liability. I still maintain McCourty is a quality player at CB, however with Chung and Gregory hurt I don't see him moving from safety for the forseeable future. They tried Ebner and Wilson back there and it was a monumental fuckup

I still have alot of hope for both of those players but the speed of the game is obviously too much for them at this point.

descendency · 10-26-2012, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradysKnee

Right but zones are meant to adjust most of the time. The play is like was said a zone overload play to make a player make a bad decision. Still, the backside safety should've played over a bit and it looks like we let the wrong guy go free. The sad part is I don't know if this is coaching or lack of talent or both. I wish BB wasn't so opposed to bringing in fresh blood coaching wise to the D.

The play is designed to hit all 3 levels of the defense on one side. Sanchez has to make a reasonably easy read to find the open receiver. Our scheme is far too concerned with not giving up the big play down the field and not concerned enough with being aggressive and stopping most plays.

The safety, LB, and CB all are watching a backup OT and FB stand and block air. That's the downside to the Belichick scheme.

BradysKnee · 10-26-2012, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

The play is designed to hit all 3 levels of the defense on one side. Sanchez has to make a reasonably easy read to find the open receiver. Our scheme is far too concerned with not giving up the big play down the field and not concerned enough with being aggressive and stopping most plays.

The safety, LB, and CB all are watching a backup OT and FB stand and block air. That's the downside to the Belichick scheme.

We still give up the big play frequently though lol.
I do remember us being really aggressive blitzing in the past though. I don't know what happened to that thought process with BB.

descendency · 10-27-2012, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradysKnee

We still give up the big play frequently though lol.
I do remember us being really aggressive blitzing in the past though. I don't know what happened to that thought process with BB.

Didn't we blitz a bunch against Tennessee when we obliterated them?

AntoinCD · 10-27-2012, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

Didn't we blitz a bunch against Tennessee when we obliterated them?

This is the thing that frustrates me with the whole indivdual game plan thing that Belichick does. He blitzed quite regularly as well aginst Arizona and had good success in doing so. From watching the Pats, when Brandon Spikes blitzes through the A gap good things generally happen. Mayo is also a very good blitzer and one of Hightower's strengths coming out was how good a blitzer he is. So it's not like we don't have the horses to do it, it's just at times Belichick thinks it's better to use coverage based looks rather than pressure based looks.

Another thing that annoyed me during the Jets game is Chandler Jones was often used to hit TEs to dirsupt the timing of the plays. However often it was Cumberland he was knocking off. That doesn't make any sense at all to me. Why use your best pass rusher to disrupt the timing of a back TE? At best Cumberland was going to be the 3rd read. Let Jones rush the passer. It's what he does best.