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Old 10-30-2012, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
I say that but not with Ogletree in mind.

Austin couldn't run his route because the CB had position in front of him. It was just a good defensive play. Not bad throw by Romo and not a bad job by Austin. You just gotta give credit to the defense for coming up with that pick. Romo threw the ball 62 TIMES! We can't really sit here and pick apart the ones that didn't work. You throw that many times, your offense becomes predictable.

But Romo's pick 6 to JPP was ******* careless.

No 1st down on that 2nd and 1 series is on Romo too. He called out of the run. KILL KILL! KILL KILL! The play call was there, so that one is not fair to blame Garrett's playcalling on. Personally, I'd like to blame Felix for not giving Romo confidence for running that play.
We threw 62 times and Im not talking about the ones that didnt work only the ones that were picked off. He killed the run because there were 8 in the box. If we would have ran it there and Felix loses a yard or 2, we are all saying WHY THE F' ARE WE RUNNING THE BALL!!! I just think we should have ran a pass/run option with Romo rolling out or a play action pass. I blame the OC but thats just me
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Not only that, that pass, if you throw it, should be short and to the back shoulder.

But he had Miles open ... and as I say, when Miles is the #1 target we do better.

Austin should be catching 100-120 balls per year. Dez and Oggs another 100 tops. Witten another 100.
Romo the gunslinger was going for the gusto... That's what he does.

I'm fine with your breakdown of receptions... with Dez getting 75-80 and Oggs getting 20-25. hah. Sunday's game was great as far as the distribution went. We need to send Dez deep MORE. He's great at outmuscling deep coverage. I still can't believe we lost because his finger was on the line. Giants escaped big time.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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Not only that, that pass, if you throw it, should be short and to the back shoulder.

But he had Miles open ... and as I say, when Miles is the #1 target we do better.

Austin should be catching 100-120 balls per year. Dez and Oggs another 100 tops. Witten another 100.
It looked to me like he was throwing to the back sholder but Olgetree only had 1 arm free, Austin wasnt an option on that play it was either going to witten who was doubled or to KO which is where he went.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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We threw 62 times and Im not talking about the ones that didnt work only the ones that were picked off. He killed the run because there were 8 in the box. If we would have ran it there and Felix loses a yard or 2, we are all saying WHY THE F' ARE WE RUNNING THE BALL!!! I just think we should have ran a pass/run option with Romo rolling out or a play action pass. I blame the OC but thats just me
True. We are the kings of second guessing the reality of the situation.

There's just too much blame to place on that series. QB, RB, HC, OL, Oggs... that was just pathetic.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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It looked to me like he was throwing to the back sholder but Olgetree only had 1 arm free, Austin wasnt an option on that play it was either going to witten who was doubled or to KO which is where he went.
The refs pulling back their flag was jaw dropping. I thought.. yep... only against us does that happen.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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I don't blame Romo for the pick six. Jpp is just an ogre. How was he supposed to know Jpp would do that freak play? That was just a sick play by him.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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I don't blame Romo for the pick six. Jpp is just an ogre. How was he supposed to know Jpp would do that freak play? That was just a sick play by him.
The throw was way too low! He just doesn't have the mental capacity to think smart in pressure situations. He relies on flinging the ball of the seat of his pants and never knows what will be the result. Nor does he care about the result.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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The throw was way too low! He just doesn't have the mental capacity to think smart in pressure situations. He relies on flinging the ball of the seat of his pants and never knows what will be the result. Nor does he care about the result.
I think this is a statment out of frustration and not really accurate.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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The throw was way too low! He just doesn't have the mental capacity to think smart in pressure situations. He relies on flinging the ball of the seat of his pants and never knows what will be the result. Nor does he care about the result.
Right. You are the best non-biased observer. Given the state of our offensive line he's doing a great job. Our running game averaged how many yards per carry? I want you to look it up so you can realize the COMPLETE lack of support Romo has on offense.

When you are forced to throw the ball repeatedly against a team ready for the pass the results will not be encouraging.

BtB broke it down nicely and I'll comment on that after a bit.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Why would Ogletree use an arm bar when he's trying to catch the ball?
To create separation between the two. Look at the play again, from the endzone angle. Ogletree is grabbing jersey and pushing off for a good portion of that route. Then he can't even make a competent attempt at playing the ball.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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I think this is a statment out of frustration and not really accurate.
Hooray for sensibility!

You get me, Mac. ;)

....and yes, we ARE allowed to act like that! haha
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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Right. You are the best non-biased observer. Given the state of our offensive line he's doing a great job. Our running game averaged how many yards per carry? I want you to look it up so you can realize the COMPLETE lack of support Romo has on offense.

When you are forced to throw the ball repeatedly against a team ready for the pass the results will not be encouraging.

BtB broke it down nicely and I'll comment on that after a bit.
It's not like I don't like Romo for reasons he didn't create. C'mon now. The bias didn't come out of nowhere. Romo apologists have an answer for everything. I ain't even mad at him, really. He did a lot of good things. But in the end, it's the same old Romo. The good never outweighs the bad.

I will say this though... I didn't have a lot of hope to winning that game against the Giants, but I love this match up with the Falcons and I think we can beat them and make it a statement game to turn this season around.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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I ain't even mad at him, really. He did a lot of good things. But in the end, it's the same old Romo. The good never outweighs the bad.
Sure. You're unbiased. #4 on the active list in QBR behind only Rodgers, Brady, and Manning with easily the worst comparatively offensive line. FYI if you change it to all time the only QB missing is Steve Young. Romo is top 5 in QBR compared to every single QB in the history of the NFL. Hate him all you like he is one of the top rated passers of all-time.

His 78.8 rating thus far this season is certainly disappointing and he is certainly forcing the ball way too much. This happens when you have no running game, atrocious interior line play, and teams playing deep forcing a QB who is known to love the deep ball into playing dink-and-dunk.

Now I'm going to change gears because we aren't going to see eye to eye on Romo.

BtB breaks down the season nicely so you can accurately direct your ire :)

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/...-2011-and-2012

I'll do some highlights:

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The first thing that popped out to me is that in addition to having the same record as last year, the Cowboys have allowed 162 points this year, the exact same number as last year. But that's already where the similarities end. Because while they scored 156 points last year, their total this year is "only" 137 points for an unflattering scoring differential of -25.

The key difference between the two teams is obviously in the turnover differential. Last year, the Cowboys were ranked 19th in the league with a -2 differential, this year they are ranked 31st with a -11 differential. Those numbers are also a key driver for the scoring differential, but before you assign blame to one particular unit, consider that while the offense has turned over the ball five more times than last year, the defense has also recorded four fewer takeaways than last year.
So we are playing loose with the ball and not ball hawking on defense. Nothing we already didn't know.

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The Cowboys have rushed exactly 169 times over the first seven games in both seasons. Yet the efficiency of those rushes has declined sharply. The Cowboys in 2011 had the seventh ranked ground game, averaging 4.8 yards a rush with only one game in which they rushed for less than 50 yards. This year, they've had four games in which they've run for less than 50 yards. As a result, their rushing average has dropped to 3.6 yards a pop, which ranks the Cowboys 31st in the league.

The inability to get anything going on the ground has led to more pressure on the passing game to deliver. The Cowboys are throwing more (293 to 262 attempts) and more accurately (66.6 to 62.6) but for less yards as the opponents take away the deep pass and force the Cowboys to dink and dunk their way up the field. And the opponents can do this comfortable in the knowledge that the Cowboys won't make any big gains on the ground and will eventually self-destruct. Either due to penalties, or because the QB is pressing, or because someone will fumble, or because of any number of boneheaded mistakes.

The lack of an efficient ground game is all the more infuriating because the Cowboys have made significant improvements in third down efficiency (ranked 6th in the league) and red zone TD efficiency (20th) versus last season.

At the end of the day, the Cowboys need the run to set up the pass. Simple as that.
Keep in mind this all includes us running all over the Ravens. It gets really ugly if you crunch the numbers without that game.

Lastly our defense is playing excellent aside from a distinct lack of "splash plays". However we have significantly improved on third down which has a remarkable effect on how we view the defense.

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The 2012 defense is significantly off the 2011 pace in two key defensive stats: sacks and interceptions. As a result, the passer rating allowed as well as the passing yards/attempt are up.

But what the 2012 Cowboys lack in defensive splash plays, they make up for by getting the opposing offense off the field on third downs: The Cowboys were ranked 27th after seven games last year with a 44.1 third down percentage allowed. This year, that's down to 34.1%, the seventh best rate in the league.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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More on our offense from DMN

The goal of any offensive coordinator is to ultimately fool the defense. In addition to running when the defense expects a pass and vice versa, plays themselves are often designed to trick the defense into getting out of position. Playaction passes, for example, are an attempt to deceive defenders into thinking a run is on the way. Similarly, counters show a run one way and then head in a different direction. Great offenses thrive on deception.

Perhaps the most perplexing phenomenon I’ve discovered in studying the Cowboys’ offense in 2012 is that such deception is almost non-existent. In terms of the design of Jason Garrett’s plays, what you see is almost always what you get. It’s apparent in Garrett’s use—or lack thereof—of playaction passes, screens, motion, double-moves, and counters.

Playaction

From 2009 to 2011, the Cowboys averaged 97 playaction passes per season. Amazingly, those passes almost always came on 1st and 10 and almost never in short-yardage situations. Actually, over the past three years, the Cowboys have run more playaction passes with 20-plus yards-to-go for a first down than with between one and four yards-to-go. In 2012, we’re seeing more of the same—66.7 percent of the Cowboys’ 23 playaction passes have come on 1st and 10. The team is on pace to run just 55 total play-action passes on the season.

Screens

The Cowboys have never been a big screen team, but their near-total abandonment of screens in 2012 is puzzling. They’ve run only 10 screens all season, four of which were to wide receivers. While a case could be made that playaction passes require superior pass protection than traditional passes, screens are designed to slow down the pass-rush. If Garrett believes his offensive line is weak enough that he can’t throw the ball downfield or run playaction, you’d think screen usage would increase, but it’s done the opposite.

Motion

In 2009, the Cowboys motioned on 42.8 percent of their plays. In 2012, the rate is down to just under one-fifth of plays. While excessive motion is unnecessary, Garrett can’t expect his players to always execute. There are times when motion can be utilized to obtain and exploit matchups on offense, but the Cowboys aren’t using it.

Double-Moves

Of the Cowboys’ 293 pass attempts this season, four (1.4 percent) have been on double-moves. Two of those passes have resulted in long touchdowns, and the ‘Boys were two Dez Bryant fingers away from making it three touchdowns. Double-moves require ample pass protection, but the offensive line isn’t so poor that the Cowboys can’t look downfield on double-moves on more than 1.4 percent of passes.

Counters

No stat exemplifies the Cowboys’ lack of offensive deception quite like this one; the team that has averaged 7.2 YPC on triple-digit counters since 2009 has run all of two counters in 2012. The Cowboys’ rate of 10-plus yard runs is twice as high on counters as other runs. The rate of runs of 20 or more yards is five times as high. With offensive tackles and running backs that are built to excel on finesse runs, the fact that we’ve seen just a pair of counters in 2012 is inexplicable.

Ultimately, the Cowboys’ offense is desperate for a dramatic boost in creativity. Too often Garrett runs dives or straight dropbacks from static formations, daring the defense to stop his offense. The problem is that there are professional football players on the other side of the ball. This isn’t the 1990s; the Cowboys can’t simply line up, telegraph their intentions, and still beat down the defense. Regardless of how much talent the ‘Boys think they have on offense, the players won’t always execute; they need to be placed in optimal positions to maximize the chances of success.

Right now, the lack of deception on offense is killing the ability of the players to succeed.
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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Sure. You're unbiased. #4 on the active list in QBR behind only Rodgers, Brady, and Manning with easily the worst comparatively offensive line. FYI if you change it to all time the only QB missing is Steve Young. Romo is top 5 in QBR compared to every single QB in the history of the NFL. Hate him all you like he is one of the top rated passers of all-time.

His 78.8 rating thus far this season is certainly disappointing and he is certainly forcing the ball way too much. This happens when you have no running game, atrocious interior line play, and teams playing deep forcing a QB who is known to love the deep ball into playing dink-and-dunk.

Now I'm going to change gears because we aren't going to see eye to eye on Romo.

BtB breaks down the season nicely so you can accurately direct your ire :)

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/...-2011-and-2012

I'll do some highlights:



So we are playing loose with the ball and not ball hawking on defense. Nothing we already didn't know.



Keep in mind this all includes us running all over the Ravens. It gets really ugly if you crunch the numbers without that game.

Lastly our defense is playing excellent aside from a distinct lack of "splash plays". However we have significantly improved on third down which has a remarkable effect on how we view the defense.
When does it stop?

Romo doesn't have an OL...
Romo doesn't have a Running Game...
Romo doesn't have good WRs...
Romo doesn't have a good defense to help him out...
Romo doesn't have a good playcaller...
Romo doesnt' have a good GM/Owner...

We've all heard these things said at one point or another...

At what point does it get pointed back at him?

PFF collects stats on OL play. For pass blocking, DAL is ranked 21st in the league. In run blocking we rank 20th.

For comparison's sake, Atlanta Falcon's OL is ranked 18th in pass blocking and 22nd in run blocking. Yes, we all acknowledge that our OL needs to improve, but we can't use them as the scapegoat to all of our woes. ATL's OL is a little better than ours in pass pro, but yet they are undefeated.

We talk about how great Tony's passing yardage is... well, he must be getting some protection then. 62 pass attempts and 4 sacks against arguably the best DL in the NFL... 2 sacks total in the previous 3 games combined (CHI, BAL, CAR)... That's not horrendous. You can't blame the OL for the INTs man.

How many times do we have to mention how insignificant QBR is around here?

The whole points for and points against argument holds little water in my eyes as well. ie. You might get the idea that the defense played badly seeing as the Giants scored 29 points. But is that the reality of it? No. Also, the schedule of teams we played also isn't factored in. What about Bye Weeks? I dunno. The variables are too many.

Romo isn't the only one at fault here. The lack of a running game with Felix at the helm had a huge impact to our failures as well.
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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More on our offense from DMN

The goal of any offensive coordinator is to ultimately fool the defense. In addition to running when the defense expects a pass and vice versa, plays themselves are often designed to trick the defense into getting out of position. Playaction passes, for example, are an attempt to deceive defenders into thinking a run is on the way. Similarly, counters show a run one way and then head in a different direction. Great offenses thrive on deception.

Perhaps the most perplexing phenomenon I’ve discovered in studying the Cowboys’ offense in 2012 is that such deception is almost non-existent. In terms of the design of Jason Garrett’s plays, what you see is almost always what you get. It’s apparent in Garrett’s use—or lack thereof—of playaction passes, screens, motion, double-moves, and counters.

Playaction

From 2009 to 2011, the Cowboys averaged 97 playaction passes per season. Amazingly, those passes almost always came on 1st and 10 and almost never in short-yardage situations. Actually, over the past three years, the Cowboys have run more playaction passes with 20-plus yards-to-go for a first down than with between one and four yards-to-go. In 2012, we’re seeing more of the same—66.7 percent of the Cowboys’ 23 playaction passes have come on 1st and 10. The team is on pace to run just 55 total play-action passes on the season.

Screens

The Cowboys have never been a big screen team, but their near-total abandonment of screens in 2012 is puzzling. They’ve run only 10 screens all season, four of which were to wide receivers. While a case could be made that playaction passes require superior pass protection than traditional passes, screens are designed to slow down the pass-rush. If Garrett believes his offensive line is weak enough that he can’t throw the ball downfield or run playaction, you’d think screen usage would increase, but it’s done the opposite.

Motion

In 2009, the Cowboys motioned on 42.8 percent of their plays. In 2012, the rate is down to just under one-fifth of plays. While excessive motion is unnecessary, Garrett can’t expect his players to always execute. There are times when motion can be utilized to obtain and exploit matchups on offense, but the Cowboys aren’t using it.

Double-Moves

Of the Cowboys’ 293 pass attempts this season, four (1.4 percent) have been on double-moves. Two of those passes have resulted in long touchdowns, and the ‘Boys were two Dez Bryant fingers away from making it three touchdowns. Double-moves require ample pass protection, but the offensive line isn’t so poor that the Cowboys can’t look downfield on double-moves on more than 1.4 percent of passes.

Counters

No stat exemplifies the Cowboys’ lack of offensive deception quite like this one; the team that has averaged 7.2 YPC on triple-digit counters since 2009 has run all of two counters in 2012. The Cowboys’ rate of 10-plus yard runs is twice as high on counters as other runs. The rate of runs of 20 or more yards is five times as high. With offensive tackles and running backs that are built to excel on finesse runs, the fact that we’ve seen just a pair of counters in 2012 is inexplicable.

Ultimately, the Cowboys’ offense is desperate for a dramatic boost in creativity. Too often Garrett runs dives or straight dropbacks from static formations, daring the defense to stop his offense. The problem is that there are professional football players on the other side of the ball. This isn’t the 1990s; the Cowboys can’t simply line up, telegraph their intentions, and still beat down the defense. Regardless of how much talent the ‘Boys think they have on offense, the players won’t always execute; they need to be placed in optimal positions to maximize the chances of success.

Right now, the lack of deception on offense is killing the ability of the players to succeed.
Remember when Garrett first arrived as our OC and we were running all kinds of new looks out there? I was excited man! 6 years later and I feel we've regressed 10 fold. Got me here begging for Bill Parcells to come back and call a flea flicker! LMAO.

This **** is insane with Garrett. He hasn't coached his players well enough to trust them on offense. That's basically why the decrease on presnap motions. As for the other stuff... who knows? This is where I had hoped Bill Callahan would be helping Garrett.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:02 AM    (permalink
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When you're losing, everything you're doing is wrong. Back when Garrett started out, everyone made fun of him for calling so many screens and gadget/deceptive plays. Now he's vanilla'd it up, hoping to get our idiot players in the loop, and now we're complaining it's too simple.
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:43 AM    (permalink
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D: I think you're right about Romo. Too many excuses. He throws a pick and it's always the WR's fault. But when you have thrown 9 picks in the last two games at home, there's something wrong.
Aaron Rodgers won a SB with no running game and a bad OL. Eli Manning won a SB with a bad OL. It's about making the right decisions. I like the fact that Romo led us to winning drives in the end of both the Baltimore and New York games, but he also put us in a bad position to start those games.

Again, as you said, one finger away from a W. Last week we were one FG away from a W. If there's something I learned about these Cowboys in the last few years is that they are very unlucky.
On the other hand, the Giants caught two huge breaks in the NFC final to beat the 49ers, and played against the Patriots when Gronk was injured.
I'm not saying the Giants didn't deserve to win the Lombardi Trophy, but in team sports, luck plays a big role.
Am I saying that we are playing good football? Not at all. But still, it would be useful to catch a break every now and then.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:02 AM    (permalink
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Sure. You're unbiased. #4 on the active list in QBR behind only Rodgers, Brady, and Manning with easily the worst comparatively offensive line. FYI if you change it to all time the only QB missing is Steve Young. Romo is top 5 in QBR compared to every single QB in the history of the NFL. Hate him all you like he is one of the top rated passers of all-time.

His 78.8 rating thus far this season is certainly disappointing and he is certainly forcing the ball way too much. This happens when you have no running game, atrocious interior line play, and teams playing deep forcing a QB who is known to love the deep ball into playing dink-and-dunk.

Now I'm going to change gears because we aren't going to see eye to eye on Romo.

BtB breaks down the season nicely so you can accurately direct your ire :)

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/...-2011-and-2012

I'll do some highlights:



So we are playing loose with the ball and not ball hawking on defense. Nothing we already didn't know.



Keep in mind this all includes us running all over the Ravens. It gets really ugly if you crunch the numbers without that game.

Lastly our defense is playing excellent aside from a distinct lack of "splash plays". However we have significantly improved on third down which has a remarkable effect on how we view the defense.
Hahaha let it go man. I was just like you a year or two ago.
At some point, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's more than likely a duck.

Romo is who we think he is. A good to great QB that can certainly win you some games, but he's also a bad QB that will lose you a few as well. We can blame the receivers, we can blame the OL, we can blame JG, or whatever we want, but these issues have now spanned 3 coaches, various OL changes, various WR changes. There's one constant here....one and one alone.

So quote every stat in the world, how his QBR is through the roof, how his 4th qtr #'s are top 5, how he's the best QB to ever wear a star on his helmet statistically.....That's fine...but at some point, you have to trust your eyes. Your eyes don't lie, he is what he is...and it's getting to the point where it's time to look towards the future.


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Old 10-31-2012, 08:03 AM    (permalink
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Nice strawman D. Atlanta has had an easy schedule and have two effective running backs. It also helps that Roddy and Julio run reliable routes and don't joy their cuts.

As I said. Romo is pressing and getting punished for it. How do we prevent him from pressing? Establish the run.

If you really want to get into Romo's 4 picks look at them individually.

First one. Dez is open and his cut inside should secure him easy rights to the ball instead he makes a lazy break and jogs and the pass is intercepted. Quarterback cannot expect his wide receivers to jog through cuts. By the time he cut was made the ball was out of Romo's hand. Bryant admitted as much afterwards...

Quote:
Bryant said he was off balance and could not sharpen his route. Blame to the WR for not running his route correctly.
Second one. Mixed bag here. IMHO too aggressive and a bad pass but Archer stated the following:

Quote:
Austin is on the numbers as he runs down the field with cornerback Corey Webster to the outside. Romo’s throw is high and to the outside. As Austin adjusts he is nudged by Webster and is off balance and unable to contest the pass, giving Webster the easy pick. Again, not the best of throws, but Romo is trusting Austin to make a play or at least knock it down and he can’t.
Third One. Excellent play by JPP and atrocious blocking from Nate Livings. Tony cannot see that JPP is disengaging Tyron and Canty is in his lap. Still would of rather seen him bullet it to Felix. Note: Romo is under duress on a three step drop. This cannot happen if you want to have a reliable offense.

Quote:
Romo is under early pressure from Chris Canty, who beats guard Nate Livings. Sensing the pressure, Romo tries to loop a pass to Jones, who is releasing from the backfield. Unfortunately Jason Pierre-Paul senses Jones going out on the route and stops rushing. As a result Tyron Smith is not engaged with Pierre-Paul and the defensive end makes one of the most outrageous plays you will see.
Last one. First off this is bad playcalling. Even if you don't want to run the ball (I don't trust Felix to gain 1 yard behind our line do you?) why in the world are we not running slants, drags, curls, or anything short to Witten here... Once again completely atrocious blocking this time by Doug Free.

Quote:
The Giants rush four and the Cowboys protect with five guys. Osi Umenyiora beats Doug Free and Romo is forced to flee to his right while being chased by Umenyiora, Canty and Linval Joseph. Knowing it’s fourth down, he throws the ball toward Witten by the sideline, but Brown comes up with his second interception. Given the situation, the quarterback can’t just eat the ball on fourth down. Poor protection led to this pick.
The Quarterback is ALWAYS the position to receive too much credit but also too much of the blame. Tony is not playing up to his normal self but he also isn't getting any help from our supporting cast. PFF grades offensive lines better if the QB isn't adept at taking sacks. Since Romo spins away, sometimes to his detriment, the oline ratings are better for it. Throw in Orton and our sack ratio goes way down.

And this isn't worth a comment but I'm feeling sarcastic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshBoy! View Post
So quote every stat in the world, how his QBR is through the roof, how his 4th qtr #'s are top 5, how he's the best QB to ever wear a star on his helmet statistically.....That's fine...but at some point, you have to trust your eyes.
You are absolutely right. When unbiased metrics don't tell the story you are trying to tell you need to rely on opinion and observational biased.

But to be fair I am highly influenced by the unbiased metrics regardless of where they place a player I hold in high regard. For example with Tony's level of play this year he's sitting around the 20th best QB in the league. I agree. So you guys can knock off acting like I'm some sort of super homer and realize my arguments are based on historical Romo who just last year lit it up.

I simply am steering us away from the BSPN attitude that it all falls on Romo or that we are somehow better than what we've shown. Our offensive line play aside from Tyron is atrocious, Dez is inconsistent at best but has immense potential, and that Witten is easily the best TE in the game.

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Old 10-31-2012, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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You are absolutely right. When unbiased metrics don't tell the story you are trying to tell you need to rely on opinion and observational biased.

But to be fair I am highly influenced by the unbiased metrics regardless of where they place a player I hold in high regard. For example with Tony's level of play this year he's sitting around the 20th best QB in the league. I agree. So you guys can knock off acting like I'm some sort of super homer and realize my arguments are based on historical Romo who just last year lit it up.

I simply am steering us away from the BSPN attitude that it all falls on Romo or that we are somehow better than what we've shown. Our offensive line play aside from Tyron is atrocious, Dez is inconsistent at best but has immense potential, and that Witten is easily the best TE in the game.

Sure we can all cherry pick stats...like 9 turnovers in the last 2 home games. 13 INT's for the season vs. 9 TD's.
Etc, etc, etc...it's old man, that's all. You can look back probably 30 or so pages and I was doing the same defending of Romo in the Detroit/Jets games last year...We've gotten to the point where we EXPECT Romo to have a 3-4 INT game nowadays. That's ridiculous. RIDICULOUS. Vick is getting hammered and probably benched for making the same careless mistakes with the football that Romo is(with a comparably bad OL), but because Romo has some magical QBR we're sitting here trying to place blame on everyone BUT him. He makes some amazing plays, and when he's on, he's an elite QB, but these boneheaded games are happening farrrr too often now.

We know there's issues on the OL, issues with WR's, issues with the running game, but EVERY team has those issues. We've seen enough of Romo to say...Yes..he absolutely makes bad decisions, that other QB's DO NOT MAKE. Do those other QB's make the outstanding "Romo" plays where he escapes 3 rushers and bombs it down the field for a TD? Probably not. Again, nobody is saying he's a bad QB. Simply that...he is what he is...and he's shown it through numerous coaching changes. Here's the facts, Romo will probably never have a line like Tom Brady...but it's not the worse OL in football, never has been. I'm simply saying, no there's no better alternative than Romo right now, but I'm to the point where I'd almost rather have Alex Smith at QB, then to keep rationalizing off these 4INT games as "Well yeaa, he threw 4 picks, but Dez ran the wrong route on one of them!!! It's not all Romo!"

We need to expect more from our franchise QB. He's one of the richest on the team, the face of the Dallas Cowboys, is it fair for him to get all the blame? Absolutely, because he gets all the kudos when they win.

I want to turn the page because I"ve lost faith that the "Good Romo" outweighs the "Bad Romo" right now. There are no stats that are going to change that feeling you get when the games on the line, and you know there's a chance bad romo comes out.

Giants fans don't get that feeling with Eli.
Pats fans don't get that feeling with Brady.
Broncos/Colts fans never got that feeling with Peyton.
NO/GB fans don't get that feeling with their QB's.

Matt Ryan, Big Ben, Schaub, hell RG3 in Washington, never give you that feeling, for good reason. They have you believing "We have the ball, down by 4, 2 minutes left...We got this game!"

I've lost that faith...my eyes tell me it happens too often with Romo.

Last edited by FreshBoy! : 10-31-2012 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:34 AM    (permalink
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I'll have a full breakdown of the game sometime this week when my power comes back on. But I have noticed a trend with Romo that has been an issue for years now.

If you blitz Romo, he'll throw you the ball. Most great qbs do Bette vs the blitz than 4 man rushes. But Romo will throw you the ball if you pressure him enough. It's his biggest flaw as a qb. And that's coming from one of Romo's biggest supporters on this website.

Romo is also mobile but his pocket presence isn't great. There's a difference btw mobility and pocket presence. Romo uses mobility to buy time. He needs to improve his ability to make slight movements in the pocket to buy time.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I'll have a full breakdown of the game sometime this week when my power comes back on. But I have noticed a trend with Romo that has been an issue for years now.

If you blitz Romo, he'll throw you the ball. Most great qbs do Bette vs the blitz than 4 man rushes. But Romo will throw you the ball if you pressure him enough. It's his biggest flaw as a qb. And that's coming from one of Romo's biggest supporters on this website.

Romo is also mobile but his pocket presence isn't great. There's a difference btw mobility and pocket presence. Romo uses mobility to buy time. He needs to improve his ability to make slight movements in the pocket to buy time.
I can quote a stat that proves otherwise, so your eyes are deceiving you.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I'll have a full breakdown of the game sometime this week when my power comes back on. But I have noticed a trend with Romo that has been an issue for years now.

If you blitz Romo, he'll throw you the ball. Most great qbs do Bette vs the blitz than 4 man rushes. But Romo will throw you the ball if you pressure him enough. It's his biggest flaw as a qb. And that's coming from one of Romo's biggest supporters on this website.

Romo is also mobile but his pocket presence isn't great. There's a difference btw mobility and pocket presence. Romo uses mobility to buy time. He needs to improve his ability to make slight movements in the pocket to buy time.
Romo is certainly hampered by interior pressure not the blitz. From the Giant's game...

Quote:
- Romo was 11/14 for 121 yards, grading at +1.3 against the blitz. He was 25/48 for 334 yards and all four interceptions while grading at -3.8 against a four-man rush.
That makes sense. If you drop 7 into coverage and still generate a ton of pressure, especially inside, the QB has a choice of tucking for a sack/throwing away/or forcing the ball.

Aside from that though. Interior pressure early leads him to throw "trust" balls which is extremely dangerous against the zone or if the receiver makes a different read on the play. Outside pressure he tends to spin away or make subtle steps out of the way but he cannot cope with interior pressure. One of the reasons the organization baffles me with this "well known" exploit being kicked down the line for years.

I don't think he's going to improve at this stage in his career and am starting to see a bit of "David Carr syndrome" in that he has no trust in our offensive line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshBoy! View Post
I can quote a stat that proves otherwise, so your eyes are deceiving you.
Read the above. If you are going to troll at least do a better job at it.

Last edited by Trogdor : 10-31-2012 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Nice strawman D. Atlanta has had an easy schedule and have two effective running backs. It also helps that Roddy and Julio run reliable routes and don't joy their cuts.

As I said. Romo is pressing and getting punished for it. How do we prevent him from pressing? Establish the run.

If you really want to get into Romo's 4 picks look at them individually.

First one. Dez is open and his cut inside should secure him easy rights to the ball instead he makes a lazy break and jogs and the pass is intercepted. Quarterback cannot expect his wide receivers to jog through cuts. By the time he cut was made the ball was out of Romo's hand. Bryant admitted as much afterwards...



Second one. Mixed bag here. IMHO too aggressive and a bad pass but Archer stated the following:



Third One. Excellent play by JPP and atrocious blocking from Nate Livings. Tony cannot see that JPP is disengaging Tyron and Canty is in his lap. Still would of rather seen him bullet it to Felix. Note: Romo is under duress on a three step drop. This cannot happen if you want to have a reliable offense.



Last one. First off this is bad playcalling. Even if you don't want to run the ball (I don't trust Felix to gain 1 yard behind our line do you?) why in the world are we not running slants, drags, curls, or anything short to Witten here... Once again completely atrocious blocking this time by Doug Free.



The Quarterback is ALWAYS the position to receive too much credit but also too much of the blame. Tony is not playing up to his normal self but he also isn't getting any help from our supporting cast. PFF grades offensive lines better if the QB isn't adept at taking sacks. Since Romo spins away, sometimes to his detriment, the oline ratings are better for it. Throw in Orton and our sack ratio goes way down.

And this isn't worth a comment but I'm feeling sarcastic.



You are absolutely right. When unbiased metrics don't tell the story you are trying to tell you need to rely on opinion and observational biased.

But to be fair I am highly influenced by the unbiased metrics regardless of where they place a player I hold in high regard. For example with Tony's level of play this year he's sitting around the 20th best QB in the league. I agree. So you guys can knock off acting like I'm some sort of super homer and realize my arguments are based on historical Romo who just last year lit it up.

I simply am steering us away from the BSPN attitude that it all falls on Romo or that we are somehow better than what we've shown. Our offensive line play aside from Tyron is atrocious, Dez is inconsistent at best but has immense potential, and that Witten is easily the best TE in the game.
Was that strawman? I dunno, it wasn't meant to be if so. It was just a comparison between OLs. It's fair to say competition should factor in. But c'mon man... their Running game is NOT that great. Turner just ran for 58 yards on 24 carries against the Eagles. He hasn't been great all year. He's got a big name, but he's just a shell of himself. ...and I don't want to hear about how they are undefeated because their WRs are better than ours. Ours are fine. It's less about talent as it is about the QB and WRs putting in the work to get on the same page.

If you want to argue that none of those INTs were Romo's fault, then we can just agree to disagree. As for PFF's OL stats... what it also doesn't account for is that Romo doesn't release the ball when he should and when he holds onto it too long it leaves a tougher job on the OL. Are all of his spin outs even neccessary? That could be argued. So you see, it goes both ways. Sometimes Tony makes easy plays look harder than they should. Sometimes he makes hard plays look easy.

Romo is definitely a polarizing figure if there ever was one. Talking about him has surely keep this Cowboys forum healthy and active (which I LOVE, so THANK YOU TO EVERYONE!). We're not out here to pin anyone else's necks (well, maybe Bob is), but I hope you guys don't get that impression. I really don't see a bias in your remarks. You obviously brought up great supporting points, and I was really impressed by that btw. It makes for quality conversation for sure. The more the merrier. Keep it goin' Trog! :)
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