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Old 10-30-2012, 05:07 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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"They weren't winning a title they way they were currently built," even though they were 2 games away from it last year. They lost because they kept playing slow ass Perkins, who couldn't keep up with the speed that they had in LeBron, Wade, and Bosh driving to the lane. Playing a lineup of Westbrook/Harden/Durant/Ibaka/Collison or even a lineup like Maynor/Westbrook/Harden/Durant/Ibaka would have been perfectly fine in keeping up with a team like that. There's zero reason to say they weren't winning a title he way they were, considering how close they were last year. And trading their second/third (depending on how you look at it) most important player is a step in the wrong direction.
Why are you acting like anything they did last year matters towards this year? The Heat got better, the Lakers got WAY better... Staying the same in OKC wasn't gonna work. I love you how you think you can outcoach Scott Brooks with a little suggestion like tinkering with the rotation is the solution to the Thunder winning the Championship. There really is no end to your blind know-it-all is there? ha ha
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Oh I get it. You're just looking at it from a bank account perspective.

Ah well, in the NBA, every team has to account for this thing called the salary cap and luxury tax penalties (which may affect profitabiltiy). So how much you spend on your players actually matters. You can't just look back at your wallet and say "Meh, I can afford another $25M here...let's just spend it!"

As other people have said, I don't buy the woe is me small market thing from OKC in this situation. They are a profitable team. They could have afforded it.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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But I'm pretty sure Harden was told the option was either take the deal OKC offered him or be traded to Houston, which he knew had the 5 year extension available. So it basically was a 25 million dollar difference.
If you read the Simmons' article, he explains it a lot better than i could have. They basically lost all their leverage when they gave him the ultimatum of signing with OKC or get traded to Houston. Then and there, it became a difference of 25 million dollars. Presti definitely misplayed his hand there, this seemed like a panic move when they could have leveraged a better deal later.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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As other people have said, I don't buy the woe is me small market thing from OKC in this situation. They are a profitable team. They could have afforded it.
It's a very justified argument, but that's the difference between Clay Bennett, and guys like Mark Cuban. One wants to keep making money, one will spend and go through any means necessary to win a title. Oh well.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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That's true, I don't know why I expected anything different from Clay Bennett. True money grubbing jackass in every sense.

Just wishful thinking I guess, it's fun to have a team like OKC in the mix with the rest of the regular contenders. Not that I think OKC is out of the picture, but this undeniably makes them worse.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Everyone was applauding OKC for putting together a great roster, but now suddenly they have no idea what they're doing because they traded away their 3rd or 4th best player, who didn't play particularly well in the Finals, and who plays a position that's the easiest to fill in the NBA: shooting guard.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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SG is the most shallow position in the NBA
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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....by far.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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Everyone was applauding OKC for putting together a great roster, but now suddenly they have no idea what they're doing because they traded away their 3rd or 4th best player, who didn't play particularly well in the Finals, and who plays a position that's the easiest to fill in the NBA: shooting guard.
3rd or 4th? 2nd or 3rd is more accurate.

He played one bad series after playing really well in the first three rounds and the regular season.

And the SG depth in the league is AWFUL right now. Declining Wade, declining Kobe, old Manu, then Harden, Eric Gordon, and NOTHING. Iguodala would be up there but I consider him a 3.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Tyreke Evans should be crawling back up the list again! :D
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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3rd or 4th? 2nd or 3rd is more accurate.

He played one bad series after playing really well in the first three rounds and the regular season.

And the SG depth in the league is AWFUL right now. Declining Wade, declining Kobe, old Manu, then Harden, Eric Gordon, and NOTHING. Iguodala would be up there but I consider him a 3.
Everyone hates Joe Johnson because of his contract but he's probably a top 5 SG too.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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Brandon Roy is the best SG in the league.

#Wolvesin2013

And by 2013 I mean literally in the calendar year 2013 when we get Love and Rubio back.
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Football...it's rocket surgery now, folks.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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Everyone hates Joe Johnson because of his contract but he's probably a top 5 SG too.
Completely forgot him, yea hes up there.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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Everyone was applauding OKC for putting together a great roster, but now suddenly they have no idea what they're doing because they traded away their 3rd or 4th best player, who didn't play particularly well in the Finals, and who plays a position that's the easiest to fill in the NBA: shooting guard.
You see the guys calling this the shallowest position don't realize that the fact that it's shallow also means it's easiest to fill and still be fine at the position.

The way the stars in this league are aligned right now, you could say SG is the least important position to worry about.

Harden is so overrated by many on this board because he looks good compared to the shallow talent in the league at SG. You're right about OKC still being run by good management.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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This wasnt a management decision though, so you can stop going back to that well over and over again. This is ownership refusing to pay money, forcing Presti into making a move im sure he didnt want to make.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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Why are you acting like anything they did last year matters towards this year? The Heat got better, the Lakers got WAY better... Staying the same in OKC wasn't gonna work. I love you how you think you can outcoach Scott Brooks with a little suggestion like tinkering with the rotation is the solution to the Thunder winning the Championship. There really is no end to your blind know-it-all is there? ha ha
You're right, Brooks keeping Perkins on the floor as he was getting raped in the finals was a great move. Clearly it's me being a know it all and not trying to maximize the potential starting lineup against the best team in the league. And the Thunder were still better than the Lakers with Harden around, as well as being good enough to be the favorites to still face the Heat in the Finals. That's all that ultimately matters, they COULD have pulled out a victory in the finals if the stars aligned right. Now? Not a chance in hell, unless Durant magically becomes as good as LeBron (he won't).

This is dumber than the Mavs letting Tyson Chandler go last offseason, and that's really ******* dumb. For what it's worth, there's no such thing as "the least necessary position in the NBA." The best players play where they play, regardless of position. And right now, Harden is one of the 20-25 best players in the game.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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This wasnt a management decision though, so you can stop going back to that well over and over again. This is ownership refusing to pay money, forcing Presti into making a move im sure he didnt want to make.
This is the Thunder avoiding a Joe Johnson-like situation. Smart business is still underappreciated. You guys will soon see how replaceable Harden really was. The Thunder will still go on to have a very successful season. Nobody can sit here today and say that the Thunder gave up any chance of winning the Championship because Harden was traded. They're gonna have the same fighting chance.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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Beal and Waiters looking good so far.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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They are not going to have the same chance. OKC was at their best last year, by FAR, at the end of games when Harden was in there with both Westbrook and Durant, and Harden was running the offense, keeping Westbrook from taking boneheaded shots and turning the ball over. Westbrook is mega talented, but he needs someone to keep him in check, and Harden could do that because he'd take control of the offense.

Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb can score. They CANNOT run an offense. So what you did was you took a team that was last in assists and first in turnovers, and you took away the one and only guy that actually distributed the ball and kept that offense in check when the game was on the line.

Durant is still going to be amazing, and Westbrook is still going to put up numbers, but theyre going to be less efficient now without Harden there to take control when Westbrook spazzes out.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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They are not going to have the same chance. OKC was at their best last year, by FAR, at the end of games when Harden was in there with both Westbrook and Durant, and Harden was running the offense, keeping Westbrook from taking boneheaded shots and turning the ball over. Westbrook is mega talented, but he needs someone to keep him in check, and Harden could do that because he'd take control of the offense.

Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb can score. They CANNOT run an offense. So what you did was you took a team that was last in assists and first in turnovers, and you took away the one and only guy that actually distributed the ball and kept that offense in check when the game was on the line.

Durant is still going to be amazing, and Westbrook is still going to put up numbers, but theyre going to be less efficient now without Harden there to take control when Westbrook spazzes out.
Maybe they think Maynor can be that guy is some ways? Not saying I agree, just suggesting that may be their thinking. An end game lineup of Maynor/Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka and then either Collison/Perkins or Martin depending on matchups.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Yea Maynor will be the guy taking Harden's role, and he's a solid backup PG, but there's obviously a big dropoff there, even if you think Harden is overrated.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Do they go Maynor/Westbrook/Martin/Durant/Ibaka?

Pretty damn bad on defense, but would be tough to keep up with as far as scoring.

Edit: Replace Martin with Thabo for defensive purposes, or just go with your normal 5 with Perkins and Ibaka both in.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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They are not going to have the same chance. OKC was at their best last year, by FAR, at the end of games when Harden was in there with both Westbrook and Durant, and Harden was running the offense, keeping Westbrook from taking boneheaded shots and turning the ball over. Westbrook is mega talented, but he needs someone to keep him in check, and Harden could do that because he'd take control of the offense.

Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb can score. They CANNOT run an offense. So what you did was you took a team that was last in assists and first in turnovers, and you took away the one and only guy that actually distributed the ball and kept that offense in check when the game was on the line.

Durant is still going to be amazing, and Westbrook is still going to put up numbers, but theyre going to be less efficient now without Harden there to take control when Westbrook spazzes out.
Last year was their best chance. We agree there. Their best chance and they still lost. Since the Heat and Lakers have gotten a lot better, OKC's chance isn't as good. But people still want to argue that it was just as good and that's a false argument. Their top competition got better. Staying status quo isn't neccessarily smart. In the end, when OKC is still one of the best teams you people will realize losing Harden wasn't so painful afterall. But they do get youthful, stockpile on picks and have their cap in top shape. It's called Susatainability.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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Do they go Maynor/Westbrook/Martin/Durant/Ibaka?

Pretty damn bad on defense, but would be tough to keep up with as far as scoring.

Edit: Replace Martin with Thabo for defensive purposes, or just go with your normal 5 with Perkins and Ibaka both in.
Against the Lakers, there's nothing anyone can do. Heat will lose in 4 if the Lakers are healthy.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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Against the Lakers, there's nothing anyone can do. Heat will lose in 4 if the Lakers are healthy.
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