Is Jarvis Jones a Von Miller Clone??? - Page 3

FUNBUNCHER · 11-01-2012, 03:06 AM

This is so similar to the predraft talk about Von Miller this time two seasons ago.
Smallish, more quick than fast, straight line rusher with no counter moves.

IMO people are underrating Jones' talent and overall game. He's much more than a hustle guy.

Caulibflower · 11-01-2012, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

This is so similar to the predraft talk about Von Miller this time two seasons ago.
Smallish, more quick than fast, straight line rusher with no counter moves.

Didn't we already establish that this is a misconception? That when Von weighed in at the combine people realized they'd simply thought he must be undersized because he was so fast? But in actuality he's well over 6'2" and basically ran 4.40 flat at 245 pounds. He's not the heaviest linebacker out there, but when you're that fast you don't need to be. No need to knock Von's work ethic or Jones' athleticism, but let's not pretend Von Miller gets by on hustle because he's something other than a freak of nature.

Caulibflower · 11-01-2012, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DraftSwag

He doesn't play the best offenses are you serious. He plays against the best players you braniac check every NFL roster then tell me that he's not competing against NFL talent. Come up with something better than that if you wanna come at my neck. You sound stupid.

SEC sack leaders since 2005:

2005 - Willie Evans - 6'1" 270 lbs, 4.95 40-yard dash - 14 sacks against "NFL talent." Signed as a rookie free agent but never played a down in the NFL.

2006 - Hey, how about a couple of EPIC busts in Jamaal Anderson and Derrick Harvey, who both had 11 sacks against all that elite talent and even measured out as having prototypical tools.

Jamaal Anderson - 6'6" 288 lbs, 4.75 40-yard dash. 1st round pick by the Falcons, and his career high for sacks in a season is three.

Derrick Harvey - 6'5" 270 lbs, 4.84 40-yard dash. 1st round pick by the Jaguars, and his career high for sacks in a season is three and a half.

2007 - You'll be sure to remember Marcus Howard! The undersized (6' 237 lb) rush 'backer with 4.4 speed who was part of a three-way tie for the SEC lead with 10 sacks, ran a blistering 1.47 10-yard split, which showcased his explosiveness out of a stance, showed real strength with 27 bench reps, was drafted in the 5th round by the Colts, played in 9 games in 2008, and was last seen in the CFL.

I was going to go year-by-year up to the present, but I think I'll just stop there.

njx9 · 11-01-2012, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

SEC sack leaders since 2005:

2005 - Willie Evans - 6'1" 270 lbs, 4.95 40-yard dash - 14 sacks against "NFL talent." Signed as a rookie free agent but never played a down in the NFL.

2006 - Hey, how about a couple of EPIC busts in Jamaal Anderson and Derrick Harvey, who both had 11 sacks against all that elite talent and even measured out as having prototypical tools.

Jamaal Anderson - 6'6" 288 lbs, 4.75 40-yard dash. 1st round pick by the Falcons, and his career high for sacks in a season is three.

Derrick Harvey - 6'5" 270 lbs, 4.84 40-yard dash. 1st round pick by the Jaguars, and his career high for sacks in a season is three and a half.

2007 - You'll be sure to remember Marcus Howard! The undersized (6' 237 lb) rush 'backer with 4.4 speed who was part of a three-way tie for the SEC lead with 10 sacks, ran a blistering 1.47 10-yard split, which showcased his explosiveness out of a stance, showed real strength with 27 bench reps, was drafted in the 5th round by the Colts, played in 9 games in 2008, and was last seen in the CFL.

I was going to go year-by-year up to the present, but I think I'll just stop there.

but they played in the sec and had stats so they were clearly the greatest players of all time. your memory is clearly off. i'm pretty sure willie evans is already in the hall of fame because seczzz. i don't know why we're comparing the clearly superior jones to miller anyway. miller played in the big 12 so he couldn't have been any good.

someday, people will actually watch a game before arguing about a prospect. someday.

AntoinCD · 11-01-2012, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

but they played in the sec and had stats so they were clearly the greatest players of all time. your memory is clearly off. i'm pretty sure willie evans is already in the hall of fame because seczzz. i don't know why we're comparing the clearly superior jones to miller anyway. miller played in the big 12 so he couldn't have been any good.

someday, people will actually watch a game before arguing about a prospect. someday.

I hate the arguement saying they played in the SEC against NFL talent and produced, thus they are the best prospects. It's just not true. It may make it an easier evaluation but it doesn't automatically make that prospect great.

If you look through the draft from even 2005 and pick the best players from each draft you don't get an awful lot of SEC players. That is not to say that playing in the SEC is a bad thing, but it is clear that playing in the SEC does not gaurantee you are a better prospect than someone who plays in the big East, or ACC, or the WAC or anything.

Some of the best players to come out in the draft in the last 7 or 8 years came from

Sun Belt - Demarcus Ware
Big East - Revis, JPP, Ray Rice, Lesean McCoy
ACC - Devin Hester, Calvin Johnson, Jimmy Graham
WAC - Logan Mankins

Not exactly powerhouse conferences!

You can't evaluate someone just based on the competition they play against. It helps to be able to see AJ Green go against Patrick Peterson but that's not the end of the evaluation

Razor · 11-01-2012, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

Well if people were projecting Clay to be as good as he turned out to be, he would have been a Top 3-5 pick.

I don't think I made my point clear. However, Calubflower has been doing a good job thus far. The first part was sarcasm, the second part is what I believe. Jarvis Jones is a tremendous college player because of his motor and knack for making a big play. However, that just won't cut it in the NFL. Jones isn't very big and disengage very well. So whenever a NFL tackle gets his hands on Jones it'll be over. He does have upside and ability, but people are making him out to be this great can't miss prospect which he really isn't. Heck, most of his big plays aren't because he's dominating his opponent, it's because someone else is funneling the play his way or because his motor is non stop. I definitely think that Jones is a first round player, but he's not a top ten pick imo. He should be drafted in the same region as CMIII, not any higher than that.

Don Vito · 11-01-2012, 09:10 AM

Lets hold it against him that he leads college football's best conference in sacks. He is clearly Willie Evans part 2.

Don Vito · 11-01-2012, 09:13 AM

Big 12 sack leaders before Von Miller starting in 2005: Calvin Thibodeaux, Adam Carriker, Abraham Wright, Auston English, and Brandon Williams. OMG don't draft him hes going to be Calvin Thibodeaux! Wtf is this

AntoinCD · 11-01-2012, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito

Lets hold it against him that he leads college football's best conference in sacks. He is clearly Willie Evans part 2.

I don't think it's a case of holding it against him, however it is not as simple to say he leads the SEC in sacks, therefore he is the best pass rusher

In the NFL, there are currently 8 starting OTs who came from the SEC. 4 of them reside in the same division (AFC North) which has been for a long time considered the most run orientated division in the NFL.

The SEC is the best overall division. That doesn't mean they have the best players at every single position. The reason the SEC is so good is because teams like Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgis, SC etc are so deep at multiple positions. They don't all have the best players at their position though

Don Vito · 11-01-2012, 09:50 AM

I am not saying the fact that he is in the SEC makes him the best pass rusher, I'm saying the guy is a force and makes game changing plays in big games. He isn't a pure speed rusher but that doesn't mean he isn't going to be an impact defender in the NFL. He gets as much attention on him as any front 7 guy in the conference and is probably the most feared defender and he still puts up crazy numbers while doing a lot more than just sacking the QB.

In this case I wouldn't use the SEC level of competition arguement at all, but you do have to factor in that it is not a wide open passing conference so he has significantly less opportunities to rush the passer than he would in say the Big 12. When opponents do drop back to pass against Georgia, who do you think they are accounting for the most?

AntoinCD · 11-01-2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito

I am not saying the fact that he is in the SEC makes him the best pass rusher, I'm saying the guy is a force and makes game changing plays in big games. He isn't a pure speed rusher but that doesn't mean he isn't going to be an impact defender in the NFL. He gets as much attention on him as any front 7 guy in the conference and is probably the most feared defender and he still puts up crazy numbers while doing a lot more than just sacking the QB.

In this case I wouldn't use the SEC level of competition arguement at all, but you do have to factor in that it is not a wide open passing conference so he has significantly less opportunities to rush the passer than he would in say the Big 12. When opponents do drop back to pass against Georgia, who do you think they are accounting for the most?

I 100% agree with what you are saying. I stated earlier I hate the arguement of what conference they play in because that makes people have a preconceived notion of the player before they have watched him.

Produced in the best conference??? Must be great!!! That's not true, especially when it comes to evaluating players for the NFL

I think Jones is going to be a top player, but not because he performed against SEC competition. With the way the NFL has shifted towards passing you can't have enough players like Jones who can rush the passer while also drop in coverage

njx9 · 11-01-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito

Big 12 sack leaders before Von Miller starting in 2005: Calvin Thibodeaux, Adam Carriker, Abraham Wright, Auston English, and Brandon Williams. OMG don't draft him hes going to be Calvin Thibodeaux! Wtf is this

because that was clearly the ******* point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I hate the arguement saying they played in the SEC against NFL talent and produced, thus they are the best prospects. It's just not true. It may make it an easier evaluation but it doesn't automatically make that prospect great.

agreed. but then, i don't like any of the arguments people try to use in a vacuum. 'cam newton is a really great qb because he played well in the sec' alone is worthless. 'cam newton is a really great qb because of traits x, y, and z, and further because he proved those traits against the best defenses in college football' is relevant and useful. 'jarvis jones is von miller because he plays against mediocre SEC offenses and has stats' is worthless. 'jarvis jones is a great prospect because he does x, y and z effectively, and has done them against good talent' is useful. unfortunately, only one of those is being pushed in this thread.

i don't get why this happens every single year. people want to spend every minute fellating some player because of the conference he played in, or because of one statistic (how's that going, amerson-as-a-cb fans?) and they end up making pathetic arguments for that player. it's not hard to spend 5 minutes watching tape on a guy to see what he fundamentally does well and what will or won't translate to the next level. and if you're not capable of doing it, there's sure as **** someone here who is.

y.f.s. · 11-01-2012, 10:48 AM

He reminds me of Suggs more than anyone, TBH. Strong, heavy hands and he converts speed to power very well through his hips.

In regards to the "SEC DOMINANCEZZZZZZZ," if you look, a lot of pass rush production outside of the UF games come against complete stiffs at offensive tackle.

Analyze traits plz.

JHL6719 · 11-01-2012, 10:54 AM

I don't think Jones is quite as fast or quite the athlete that Von Miller is, but he's not far from it either. He makes up for it with his playmaking ability and run defense.

The significance of his "stats" which the SEC haters try to dismiss, is the fact that he didn't even play against Kentucky or FAU. He has 8.5 sacks and 14 TFL's and has only played in 6 games.

In addition, he's also had 9 QB hurries, 5 forced fumbles and about 2 inches from a pick-six. He single handedly dominated Missouri and changed the entire momentum of that game in Georgia's favor several times, and Elvis Fisher is a pretty good tackle (left with an injury).

Jordan Reed was going in for the TD last week that would've put them back in the game.... Jarvis Jones caught him from behind and forced the fumble into the endzone. He makes plays when they count.

As for Mingo, this guy is more hype than substance at this point. Until he finally got a sack against Towson this year he hadn't sacked a QB since the Arkansas game last year (a 6 game stretch). Completely invisible against Bama in both games last year, and got his ass physically handed to him by Barrett Jones in the national title game.

One of the very first things on the list of a coach's game plan to successfully dominate LSU is...

1. Run the football right at Kiki Mingo

This is what Saban and Will Muschamp know.

Mingo is simply too fast and athletic to leave unblocked on zone read plays, which is why he dominates the stat sheet in games against these type offenses (Oregon, Auburn last year, etc.)

But against physical downhill schemes where he's accounted for and blocked every play, he's virtually invisible. Teams have figured this out and it's why Mingo has no production this year.

It's why he's been relegated to a situational player since the beginning of the season with Lavar Edwards as the starter, who is outproducing Mingo.

I know that as a Bama guy, a potential matchup with Jarvis Jones in the SEC title game worries me a lot more than Mingo does. I already know exactly what we'll do with Mingo....

AntoinCD · 11-01-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s.

He reminds me of Suggs more than anyone, TBH. Strong, heavy hands and he converts speed to power very well through his hips.

In regards to the "SEC DOMINANCEZZZZZZZ," if you look, a lot of his production outside of the UF games come against complete stiffs at offensive tackle.

Analyze traits plz.

I think Suggs is a lot more violent as a rusher than Jones is.

As for Jones the prospect without comparisons, I would like to see a more varied pass rush from him. As you mention he played against some bad competition which increased his stats. Against Missouri for example, the RT literally couldn't get a hand on him based on his speed. Jones didn't do anything flashy or overly impressive, he just ran past the guy. That's the kind of thing that doesn't happen in the NFL.

y.f.s. · 11-01-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I think Suggs is a lot more violent as a rusher than Jones is.

As for Jones the prospect without comparisons, I would like to see a more varied pass rush from him. As you mention he played against some bad competition which increased his stats. Against Missouri for example, the RT literally couldn't get a hand on him based on his speed. Jones didn't do anything flashy or overly impressive, he just ran past the guy. That's the kind of thing that doesn't happen in the NFL.

He is now, (and I may be mis-remembering ASU Suggs) but I think the physicality part of his game has really grown as he's been in the NFL, and I kinda expect the same with Jones. Even if I don't have anything definitive to root that belief in.

DraftSwag · 11-01-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

because that was clearly the ******* point.

agreed. but then, i don't like any of the arguments people try to use in a vacuum. 'cam newton is a really great qb because he played well in the sec' alone is worthless. 'cam newton is a really great qb because of traits x, y, and z, and further because he proved those traits against the best defenses in college football' is relevant and useful. 'jarvis jones is von miller because he plays against mediocre SEC offenses and has stats' is worthless. 'jarvis jones is a great prospect because he does x, y and z effectively, and has done them against good talent' is useful. unfortunately, only one of those is being pushed in this thread.

i don't get why this happens every single year. people want to spend every minute fellating some player because of the conference he played in, or because of one statistic (how's that going, amerson-as-a-cb fans?) and they end up making pathetic arguments for that player. it's not hard to spend 5 minutes watching tape on a guy to see what he fundamentally does well and what will or won't translate to the next level. and if you're not capable of doing it, there's sure as **** someone here who is.

Dude you probably have never watched one coaches cut of any player in your life. TV scouting doesn't count. If you had any sort of real knowledge about the scouting process you would understand that half of the dudes that become bust are strictly based on character issues rather than skill set.

I can guarantee you that Jarvis Jones has been the best football player on the field his whole life beginning with midgets. Maybe you should take your ass of the couch and actually get around football players and find out what they say about competing against one another.

I bet you every single O Coordinator and opponent that went against Jarvis Jones wouldn't dare utter the nonsense that is coming out of your posts. You can over evaluate Jones as much as you want, but at the end of the day he's a hell of a football player and he's done nothing but prove that over his college career and also showed perseverance by fighting through a neck injury.

If you don't know why people have so much respect for the SEC then your just plain ignorant or stupid. It's hand down the most talented conference. It just seems like you are one of those guys that wants to prove you know about football, but honestly it's not a very complicated game to evaluate. Let's not make it more difficult than it is. Your not a football genius.

We can argue over Jarvis Jones all we want, but at the end of the day he'll be a top 10 draft pick and u'll probably be still looking for reasons to say why him dominating college football doesn't mean anything.

So keep finding every guys that was a bust out of the SEC and I won't even embarrass you and name every guy from the SEC that became a stud. Men lie, Women Lie, Numbers don't

JHL6719 · 11-01-2012, 11:15 AM

s

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I hate the arguement saying they played in the SEC against NFL talent and produced, thus they are the best prospects. It's just not true. It may make it an easier evaluation but it doesn't automatically make that prospect great.

If you look through the draft from even 2005 and pick the best players from each draft you don't get an awful lot of SEC players. That is not to say that playing in the SEC is a bad thing, but it is clear that playing in the SEC does not gaurantee you are a better prospect than someone who plays in the big East, or ACC, or the WAC or anything.

Some of the best players to come out in the draft in the last 7 or 8 years came from

Sun Belt - Demarcus Ware
Big East - Revis, JPP, Ray Rice, Lesean McCoy
ACC - Devin Hester, Calvin Johnson, Jimmy Graham
WAC - Logan Mankins

Not exactly powerhouse conferences!

You can't evaluate someone just based on the competition they play against. It helps to be able to see AJ Green go against Patrick Peterson but that's not the end of the evaluation

What the hell are you talking about dude....

SEC players are typically the only one's capable of coming into the NFL on a regular basis and physically dominating NFL players immediately.... Cam Newton, A.J. Green, Julio Jones, Patrick Peterson, etc. Although I'd probably make a case for J.J. Watt.

Mark Barron and Trent Richardson already physically dominate NFL players just like they did college players.

This 2005 nonsense you're talking doesn't even make sense, and we can go back a lot further than 2005. But we'll use 2005 just for the sake of conversation...

In 2005, 3 of the top 8 for Rookie of the Year were SEC players (Cadillac Williams, Ronnie Brown, Odell Thurman). The others were Heath Miller, Logan Mankins, Shawn Merriman, Lofa Tatupu, and DeMarcus Ware.

In 2006, 4 of the top 11 for Rookie of the Year were SEC players. Not only that, but DeMeco Ryans won DROY, and his Bama teammate Mark Anderson finished 2nd in DROY.

In 2007, Patrick Willis won DROY.

In 2008, Jerod Mayo won DROY.

In 2009, 4 of the top 5 for Offensive Rookie of the Year were all SEC players...Percy Harvin, Michael Oher, Knowshon Moreno, and Mike Wallace.

In 2010, Maurkice Pouncey finished in the top 3 for OROY.

In 2011, Cam Newton, A.J. Green, Julio Jones, Mike Pouncey, and Patrick Peterson.

You can continue going back even further than 2005 to the beginning of the decade with SEC Rookie of the Year with guys like Michael Clayton, Kendrell Bell, and Domanick Davis who's careers were simply derailed by injuries.

SEC players dominate son.

DraftSwag · 11-01-2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHL6719

What the hell are you talking about dude....

SEC players are typically the only one's capable of coming into the NFL on a regular basis and physically dominating NFL players immediately.... Cam Newton, A.J. Green, Julio Jones, Patrick Peterson, etc. Although I'd probably make a case for J.J. Watt.

Mark Barron and Trent Richardson already physically dominate NFL players just like they did college players.

This 2005 nonsense you're talking doesn't even make sense, and we can go back a lot further than 2005. But we'll use 2005 just for the sake of conversation...

In 2005, 3 of the top 8 for Rookie of the Year were SEC players (Cadillac Williams, Ronnie Brown, Odell Thurman). The others were Heath Miller, Logan Mankins, Shawn Merriman, Lofa Tatupu, and DeMarcus Ware.

In 2006, 4 of the top 11 for Rookie of the Year were SEC players. Not only that, but DeMeco Ryan won DROY, and his Bama teammate Mark Anderson finished 2nd in DROY.

In 2007, Patrick Willis won DROY.

In 2008, Jerod Mayo won DROY.

In 2009, 4 of the top 5 for Offensive Rookie of the Year were all SEC players...Percy Harvin, Michael Oher, Knowshon Moreno, and Mike Wallace.

In 2010, Maurkice Pouncey finished in the top 3 for OROY.

In 2011, Cam Newton, A.J. Green, Julio Jones, Mike Pouncey, and Patrick Peterson.

You can continue going back even further than 2005 to the beginning of the decade with SEC Rookie of the Year with guys like Michael Clayton, Kendrell Bell, and Domanick Davis who's careers were simply derailed by injuries.

SEC players dominate son.

Thank you and the crazy thing is the SEC is getting better talent than they ever had based on the coaches in the conference now. Go talk to a NFL scout and ask them what conference the department allocates most of there resources to. It's not even comparable.

JHL6719 · 11-01-2012, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I think Suggs is a lot more violent as a rusher than Jones is.

As for Jones the prospect without comparisons, I would like to see a more varied pass rush from him. As you mention he played against some bad competition which increased his stats. Against Missouri for example, the RT literally couldn't get a hand on him based on his speed. Jones didn't do anything flashy or overly impressive, he just ran past the guy. That's the kind of thing that doesn't happen in the NFL.

Yeah, it does. It happens a lot in fact.

njx9 · 11-01-2012, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DraftSwag

Dude you probably have never watched one coaches cut of any player in your life. TV scouting doesn't count. If you had any sort of real knowledge about the scouting process you would understand that half of the dudes that become bust are strictly based on character issues rather than skill set.

I can guarantee you that Jarvis Jones has been the best football player on the field his whole life beginning with midgets. Maybe you should take your ass of the couch and actually get around football players and find out what they say about competing against one another.

I bet you every single O Coordinator and opponent that went against Jarvis Jones wouldn't dare utter the nonsense that is coming out of your posts. You can over evaluate Jones as much as you want, but at the end of the day he's a hell of a football player and he's done nothing but prove that over his college career and also showed perseverance by fighting through a neck injury.

If you don't know why people have so much respect for the SEC then your just plain ignorant or stupid. It's hand down the most talented conference. It just seems like you are one of those guys that wants to prove you know about football, but honestly it's not a very complicated game to evaluate. Let's not make it more difficult than it is. Your not a football genius.

We can argue over Jarvis Jones all we want, but at the end of the day he'll be a top 10 draft pick and u'll probably be still looking for reasons to say why him dominating college football doesn't mean anything.

So keep finding every guys that was a bust out of the SEC and I won't even embarrass you and name every guy from the SEC that became a stud. Men lie, Women Lie, Numbers don't

blah blah credentials blah i'm not in junior high blah blah still can't actually post anything about how he actually plays blah blah guarantee a bunch of utter **** without any citation or back up blah blah.

cool story, bro. care to cite any specific nonsense, or anyplace i've ever suggested i don't think he's a good player? your arguments are garbage. nothing you've said so far is a valid argument for jones. period. stats and crying about the sec is idiotic. notice how no one else is doing it? of course you don't. because you don't actually have any idea how scouting works. you saw a couple of good plays on saturday, heard the announcers mention some numbers, and decided the guy was incredible. pointing at numbers is worthless discussion. talking about how he plays is not. you've done one and completely failed to do the other. the fact that you simply want to attack me says enough.

AntoinCD · 11-01-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHL6719

s

What the hell are you talking about dude....

SEC players are typically the only one's capable of coming into the NFL on a regular basis and physically dominating NFL players immediately.... Cam Newton, A.J. Green, Julio Jones, Patrick Peterson, etc. Although I'd probably make a case for J.J. Watt.

Mark Barron and Trent Richardson already physically dominate NFL players just like they did college players.

This 2005 nonsense you're talking doesn't even make sense, and we can go back a lot further than 2005. But we'll use 2005 just for the sake of conversation...

In 2005, 3 of the top 8 for Rookie of the Year were SEC players (Cadillac Williams, Ronnie Brown, Odell Thurman). The others were Heath Miller, Logan Mankins, Shawn Merriman, Lofa Tatupu, and DeMarcus Ware.

In 2006, 4 of the top 11 for Rookie of the Year were SEC players. Not only that, but DeMeco Ryans won DROY, and his Bama teammate Mark Anderson finished 2nd in DROY.

In 2007, Patrick Willis won DROY.

In 2008, Jerod Mayo won DROY.

In 2009, 4 of the top 5 for Offensive Rookie of the Year were all SEC players...Percy Harvin, Michael Oher, Knowshon Moreno, and Mike Wallace.

In 2010, Maurkice Pouncey finished in the top 3 for OROY.

In 2011, Cam Newton, A.J. Green, Julio Jones, Mike Pouncey, and Patrick Peterson.

You can continue going back even further than 2005 to the beginning of the decade with SEC Rookie of the Year with guys like Michael Clayton, Kendrell Bell, and Domanick Davis who's careers were simply derailed by injuries.

SEC players dominate son.

Yes because having a good rookie year means you are a great NFL player. How many of the 3 you named from 2005 went on to have great or even very good NFL careers? And I only went to 2005 because I didn't really care to look further, but the same things is applicable no matter how far you look. The SEC doesn't dominate the talent pool in the NFL.

You mention Knowshon Moreno as an example of someone having a good rookie year. How's that looking now???

Through all those years that I mentioned until now, the only players (throughout their careers) from the SEC who can realistically say they were one f the two or three best from their draft class are AJ Green, Matthew Stafford, Percy Harvin and maybe Patrick Willis (Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Revis etc from that year).

How about we look past just their rookie year. Pretty sure Vince Young was rookie of the year a few years back. How's that going?

You could possibly argue based on what you are saying that SEC players are more NFL ready, however that doesn't make them better prospects.

As I mentioned, the SEC is the best conference because it has the best collection of talent. It doesn't necessarily have the best player(s) in college football, however from top to bottom of each roster they are better than any other conference.

CashmoneyDrew · 11-01-2012, 11:43 AM

njx9 · 11-01-2012, 12:13 PM

knowshon moreno was a finalist for rookie of the year? what a pathetic year that must've been.

PossibleCabbage · 11-01-2012, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito

Big 12 sack leaders before Von Miller starting in 2005: Calvin Thibodeaux, Adam Carriker, Abraham Wright, Auston English, and Brandon Williams. OMG don't draft him hes going to be Calvin Thibodeaux! Wtf is this

I think the moral of the story is that college sack totals are kind of meaningless. Sometimes a decent pass rusher will just dominate a terrible OL. Sometimes a player won't get the opportunities in college that he did in the pros. Sometimes a player is asked to play in a scheme that doesn't fit his talents very well which hurts production, and sometimes a player lands in a situation that is perfect for him.

I mean, for example:

In 2008 (their final college seasons)
Everette Brown - 13 sacks.
Clay Matthews - 4 sacks.

Since being drafted
Everette Brown - 6 sacks.
Clay Matthews - 38.5 sacks.

So I don't think just looking at cumulative college numbers is indicative of anything. Watch individual matchups of good pass rusher vs. good OT if you want to learn anything, just don't credit a guy overmuch because he got 4 sacks in a game against a FCS opponent lined up across from a guy who will be selling insurance next year.