Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > 2014 NFL Draft Forum

2014 NFL Draft Forum Discuss the 2014 NFL Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-01-2012, 01:26 PM    (permalink
JHL6719
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Capstone
Posts: 1,068
Reputation: 89136
JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaarat316 View Post
Watch the video i just posted. He doesn't stand out in that game, he was washed out by the LT on run plays. He did a nice job holding the edge a few times. And has a good bull rush on a few plays, but never seemed to finish.

He was still injured against Vanderbilt after missing the game a week earlier against FAU because of a pulled groin. Go watch the dominant performance he put on against Missouri.... he did it with a pulled groin. Incredible.

He still had a fine game against Vanderbilt racking up 3 TFL's and a sack. In the video you posted what you'll see is a guy who plays with great leverage against Wesley Johnson, who is an offensive tackle he's giving up about 50 pounds to.

Jones is not getting blocked to the extent that you seem to think he is. He's able to keep one arm free in the proper gap which is what allows him to disengage and not stay blocked. If you want to see what staying blocked looks like, watch Mingo.
JHL6719 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:32 PM    (permalink
DraftSwag
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Burgh
Posts: 58
Reputation: -69
DraftSwag needs more cowbell.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaarat316 View Post


Vandy's LT is going to be an all pro, in run blocking.
Just watched the tape and it's actually impressive and shows his versatility. Not only does he show that he can take on blockers, but the thing that I noticed the most about him is his balance and his ability to change direction when he is engaged. He has relentless pursuit to the football and I completely agree that this guy can play Inside Linebacker. Look how comfortable he is when he drops back into coverage. The dude looks like he's always trying to make a play. Look at the bounce he has and how he's always on his toes. If this guy is a All Pro at OT then Jarvis is gonna be a stud. Another thing that separates Jarvis from lot's of guys I've seen that get hyped up is that he is disciplined. He doesn't just pull his ears back and rush the passer. There is one play where he just blows up the tackle and pushes him back 3 yards. Those are the type of things evaluators look for and to add insult to injury I saw two sacks on that brief highlight????? What's your point.
DraftSwag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:33 PM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,800
Reputation: 1665507
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DraftSwag View Post
Thanks for the grammar lesson. Maybe your more suited to teach English rather than evaluate football players. Jarvis Jones from the little bit of tape I have seen essentially has all the tools. Not only can he rush the passer, he also can drop back in coverage and is a relentless tackler. If you check some of his stuff out he's strong enough to engage then shed and athletic enough to just flat out get around unathletic lineman. He has the size to play in both a 4-3 and 3-4 so that adds more value. If he wasn't playing for Georgia and clearly separated himself as the best player on a team that has damn near more NFL talent than every other school in the country I would understand why you continue to have me justify why he is a stud. The proof is in the pudding buddy. Oh yeah and lets do a brief character check and find out if he's soft. Left USC because they wouldn't let him play with a devastating neck injury. 3 years later is the best defensive player in College football. I bet Lane wished he didn't doubt his abilities like you.
I am a little confused here. I wasn't sure at any point I said I didn't think Jones was a top prospect. In fact Jones started the year in my top 3 draft eligible prospects. He hasn't had close to the type of year he had last year and pretty soon after the Georgia game (where he most definitely was not the best player on the field) he dropped into the mid teens of my rankings. He has played better in recent weeks though.

Here's the thing with Jones;

He doesn't have a varied pass rush repertoire - he beats guys with speed mainly
He is a straight line guy - not much fluidity to his game (may in part be due to a groin injury this year)
Is adequate in coverage, not great but not a liability
Is he scheme diverse or scheme specific??? - He looks like an ideal fit as a weakside rush backer in a 34. Can he play down end in an even front? Can he play standing up in a 43???

The guy can play though.

Every single prospect has weaknesses. What you are doing is covering up his weakness by saying he dominates on the field. So did Tim Tebow. So did Vernon Gholston. These guys didn't make it in the NFL because their strengths didn't translate to the big league. I think Jones will have infinitely more success in the NFL than these guys did but you can be damn sure it's not because he dominated in the SECZZZZZ
__________________


BoneKrusher killing it with the sig
AntoinCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:43 PM    (permalink
JHL6719
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Capstone
Posts: 1,068
Reputation: 89136
JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DraftSwag View Post
Just watched the tape and it's actually impressive and shows his versatility. Not only does he show that he can take on blockers, but the thing that I noticed the most about him is his balance and his ability to change direction when he is engaged. He has relentless pursuit to the football and I completely agree that this guy can play Inside Linebacker. Look how comfortable he is when he drops back into coverage. The dude looks like he's always trying to make a play. Look at the bounce he has and how he's always on his toes. If this guy is a All Pro at OT then Jarvis is gonna be a stud. Another thing that separates Jarvis from lot's of guys I've seen that get hyped up is that he is disciplined. He doesn't just pull his ears back and rush the passer. There is one play where he just blows up the tackle and pushes him back 3 yards. Those are the type of things evaluators look for and to add insult to injury I saw two sacks on that brief highlight????? What's your point.


This is astute scouting here. Quality coaches don't just let their best pass rushers pin their ears back and rush the passer every down, especially against mobile quarterbacks who are a threat to hurt you with their legs.

It's called maintaining leverage on the football, as opposed to trying to gain leverage on the guy lined up across from you. One is disciplined football with gap integrity of the utmost importance, the other isn't.

This is why the most dangerous running threat QB's in the country like Denard Robinson have nowhere to go against a defense like Bama's. Saban preaches maintaining leverage on the football and staying disciplined. Do your job.

If the situation calls for rushing the passer in an undisciplined manner in which gap integrity isn't as significant, they'll do it.
JHL6719 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:43 PM    (permalink
DraftSwag
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Burgh
Posts: 58
Reputation: -69
DraftSwag needs more cowbell.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
I am a little confused here. I wasn't sure at any point I said I didn't think Jones was a top prospect. In fact Jones started the year in my top 3 draft eligible prospects. He hasn't had close to the type of year he had last year and pretty soon after the Georgia game (where he most definitely was not the best player on the field) he dropped into the mid teens of my rankings. He has played better in recent weeks though.

Here's the thing with Jones;

He doesn't have a varied pass rush repertoire - he beats guys with speed mainly
He is a straight line guy - not much fluidity to his game (may in part be due to a groin injury this year)
Is adequate in coverage, not great but not a liability
Is he scheme diverse or scheme specific??? - He looks like an ideal fit as a weakside rush backer in a 34. Can he play down end in an even front? Can he play standing up in a 43???

The guy can play though.

Every single prospect has weaknesses. What you are doing is covering up his weakness by saying he dominates on the field. So did Tim Tebow. So did Vernon Gholston. These guys didn't make it in the NFL because their strengths didn't translate to the big league. I think Jones will have infinitely more success in the NFL than these guys did but you can be damn sure it's not because he dominated in the SECZZZZZ
I just watched that brief highlight against Vanderbilt and I have no idea what your talking about saying he is a straight line guy. Probably the thing that separates him the most is probably his ability to change direction and balance. Look at his ball pursuit and he's a linebacker not a defensive lineman so he doesn't need an array of pass rushing moves. Everything that I have seen on this guy shows that he is an all around linebacker that could play multiple positions. He's just a natural athlete, I wouldn't be surprised if you talked to his coaches and they didn't say he could play offense. I'll repost the video for you so you can reevaluate your evaluation of Jarvis Jones, because some of the stuff you said is completely wrong.
DraftSwag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:51 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seahawks Diaspora
Posts: 4,927
Reputation: 1586928
Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHL6719 View Post
He still had a fine game against Vanderbilt racking up 3 TFL's and a sack. In the video you posted what you'll see is a guy who plays with great leverage against Wesley Johnson, who is an offensive tackle he's giving up about 50 pounds to.
GUUUUUGH. I was going to make a post about that video, but you just made my point for me. Perfect example of a game where someone's going to look at him having a handful of tackles and statistical evidence of his presence behind the line of scrimmage and take it as proof that he's NFL-ready. You simply must look at the individual plays. He did nothing but run around making plays in other parts of the field. That's the thing about him that bugs me. He never makes plays where he lines up. If he lines up at OLB, and they run right at him, chances are they're making yards. It's almost like when they're defending against him, what they're really doing is making sure he doesn't catch the play from the backside. And that's why I think I don't see a top NFL talent here. Sure, he's a major disruptive force on his college team and he's put up a lot of stats, but he's not so much the hammer of his defense as the broom - he's always running cleanup after the rest of the front 7 locks it up.

On his sack, the guy assigned to block him was a pulling tight end. That's what outside linebackers dream about. He saw it coming, anticipated it, timed the snap count right and blew right by him. It was a good-looking play, he did it perfectly, but it's a +1 in the sack column that NFL scouts aren't going to take very seriously. It's just a number. It doesn't mean he can get past an NFL offensive tackle. Other plays behind the line of scrimmage were often situations where the play went away from him, got stuffed, and he gets the TFL from a trailing position. He's not doing anything wrong, and is doing exactly what you expect him to do in that situation, but that's where the stat is coming from. He's not bowling anyone over into the backfield. His game against Mizzou has also been mentioned as an example of how good he's supposed to be, but there were a few times in that game where they ran right at him and a single Mizzou lineman was able to wash him 5 yards towards the sideline and opened huuuuuuuge holes up the outside. He has a tendency to look completely ineffective when he gets locked onto.

Last edited by Caulibflower : 11-01-2012 at 01:54 PM.
Caulibflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:57 PM    (permalink
DraftSwag
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Burgh
Posts: 58
Reputation: -69
DraftSwag needs more cowbell.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
GUUUUUGH. I was going to make a post about that video, but you just made my point for me. He did nothing but run around making plays in other parts of the field. That's the thing about him that bugs me. He never makes plays where he lines up. If he lines up at OLB, and they run right at him, chances are they're making yards. It's almost like when they're defending against him, what they're really doing is making sure he doesn't catch the play from the backside. And that's why I think I don't see a top NFL talent here. Sure, he's a major disruptive force on his college team and he's put up a lot of stats, but he's not so much the hammer of his defense as the broom - he's always running cleanup after the rest of the front 7 locks it up.

On his sack, the guy assigned to block him was a pulling tight end. That's what outside linebackers dream about. He saw it coming, anticipated it, timed the snap count right and blew right by him. It was a good-looking play, he did it perfectly, but it's a +1 in the sack column that NFL scouts aren't going to take very seriously. It's just a number. It doesn't mean he can get past an NFL offensive tackle. Other plays behind the line of scrimmage were often situations where the play went away from him, got stuffed, and he gets the TFL from a trailing position. He's not doing anything wrong, and is doing exactly what you expect him to do in that situation, but that's where the stat is coming from. He's not bowling anyone over into the backfield. His game against Mizzou has also been mentioned as an example of how good he's supposed to be, but there were a few times in that game where they ran right at him and a single Mizzou lineman was able to wash him 5 yards towards the sideline and opened huuuuuuuge holes up the outside. He has a tendency to look completely ineffective when he gets locked onto.
I'm not sure if you haven't check, but the NFL has turned into a passing league not a smash mouth see who the strongest guy on the field is. If you want tough guys then go watch Big Ten football. The NFL is about athletes this isn't the 1980's anymore buddy and Jarvis shows ability to fill gaps so I still don't know what your talking about. If the dude was getting caked it would be one thing. For the defender a stalemate is a win anything more is extra and with Jarvis you get a whole bunch of extra thats why he's a top 5 pick.

Last edited by DraftSwag : 11-01-2012 at 02:01 PM.
DraftSwag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:02 PM    (permalink
JHL6719
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Capstone
Posts: 1,068
Reputation: 89136
JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
GUUUUUGH. I was going to make a post about that video, but you just made my point for me. He did nothing but run around making plays in other parts of the field. That's the thing about him that bugs me. He never makes plays where he lines up. If he lines up at OLB, and they run right at him, chances are they're making yards. It's almost like when they're defending against him, what they're really doing is making sure he doesn't catch the play from the backside. And that's why I think I don't see a top NFL talent here. Sure, he's a major disruptive force on his college team and he's put up a lot of stats, but he's not so much the hammer of his defense as the broom - he's always running cleanup after the rest of the front 7 locks it up.

On his sack, the guy assigned to block him was a pulling tight end. That's what outside linebackers dream about. He saw it coming, anticipated it, timed the snap count right and blew right by him. It was a good-looking play, he did it perfectly, but it's a +1 in the sack column that NFL scouts aren't going to take very seriously. It's just a number. It doesn't mean he can get past an NFL offensive tackle. Other plays behind the line of scrimmage were often situations where the play went away from him, got stuffed, and he gets the TFL from a trailing position. He's not doing anything wrong, and is doing exactly what you expect him to do in that situation, but that's where the stat is coming from. He's not bowling anyone over into the backfield. His game against Mizzou has also been mentioned as an example of how good he's supposed to be, but there were a few times in that game where they ran right at him and a single Mizzou lineman was able to wash him 5 yards towards the sideline and opened huuuuuuuge holes up the outside. He has a tendency to look completely ineffective when he gets locked onto.

You basically just described Von Miller's liability in the run defense at aTm. Furthermore, I just don't believe you've watched Jarvis Jones on a down to down basis in every game he's played this year. This guy plays outstanding run defense far too often to be considered a liability, and he'll be selected in the top 10 of the NFL draft for a reason. I watch him every week.

Clowney will probably be the #1 pick next year and I watch him get flat out pancaked. I've never seen that happen to Jones. Ever. I'm not sure what your point is...

He's most definitely the hammer of UGA's defense, that I'll guarantee. The difference is he's also athletic enough to be the broom.

Bad run defenses have the safeties cleaning up and being the broom, leading the team in tackles because the front 7 isn't doing their job.
JHL6719 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:26 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seahawks Diaspora
Posts: 4,927
Reputation: 1586928
Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHL6719 View Post
You basically just described Von Miller's liability in the run defense at aTm.
I don't dispute that. The difference is that Jones doesn't have the same pass-rushing ability as Von Miller. That's why Von Miller was drafted so high. You don't draft a prospect in the top ten because he's gotten a lot of collegiate sacks and is a Von Miller-calibre run defender. It's not an insult, but maybe you take him in the second round. Point is, I think there are going to be more than ten other players in this draft who offer something more valauble than what Jones does, which is why I don't consider him an elite prospect. I'm not trying to make you think he sucks at football, you're trying to convince me he's an elite prospect.

Quote:
Furthermore, I just don't believe you've watched Jarvis Jones on a down to down basis in every game he's played this year.
You don't have to watch every single game. I saw him do good things, I saw him do bad things, I came away not feeling like I was watching a future NFL Pro Bowler.
Caulibflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:44 PM    (permalink
y.f.s.
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 445
Reputation: 547290
y.f.s. is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.y.f.s. is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.y.f.s. is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.y.f.s. is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.y.f.s. is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.y.f.s. is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.y.f.s. is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.y.f.s. is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.y.f.s. is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.y.f.s. is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.y.f.s. is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

That awkward moment when the idiot doesn't realize nobody is really disagreeing with him, and they're just pointing out that his argument sucks.

Aliquippa don't miss, y'all.
y.f.s. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:47 PM    (permalink
JHL6719
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Capstone
Posts: 1,068
Reputation: 89136
JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JHL6719 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
I don't dispute that. The difference is that Jones doesn't have the same pass-rushing ability as Von Miller. That's why Von Miller was drafted so high. You don't draft a prospect in the top ten because he's gotten a lot of collegiate sacks and is a Von Miller-calibre run defender. It's not an insult, but maybe you take him in the second round. Point is, I think there are going to be more than ten other players in this draft who offer something more valauble than what Jones does, which is why I don't consider him an elite prospect. I'm not trying to make you think he sucks at football, you're trying to convince me he's an elite prospect.



You don't have to watch every single game. I saw him do good things, I saw him do bad things, I came away not feeling like I was watching a future NFL Pro Bowler.

He certainly has the ability to be a pro-bowl caliber player, but I won't guarantee that. There's too many variables that can affect something like that. The only concern I have in regards to Jarvis Jones is the injury history, but I feel good about it because I've seen him play hurt and literally dominate games.

However, Jones is not the same level of run defender that Miller was. Jones is significantly better in that aspect... to the point that it is considered a strength, especially for a guy who's always playing from a 2-point stance.

A lot of what he does will translate to the NFL. If he stays healthy the ability to be a pro-bowl player is there in the right system and he should back up what he displays on the field by testing well athletically. Although probably won't test quite as well as Von Miller, but who does?

Von Miller had special and rare athletic qualities, where Jones is more well rounded as a football player and in his physicality.
JHL6719 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 03:03 PM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,800
Reputation: 1665507
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Getting back to actually discussing Jones' abilities rather than how awesome he is for dominating SEC OTs here's a quick run down of 20 plays against Missouri. They are taken from youtube, but unfortunately we aren't all close with NFL GMs and scouts and don't get access to All 22 film

Against Missouri on youtube

First play – lines up to the left side of the offense. Hand off to the back to the right side. Jones runs across the line unblocked to assist in a tackle for 4 yards. Not a bad play but a play any college LB would make.
Second play – lines up over the RT. High snap over the QBs head. Play blown dead shortly after.
Third play – lines up over LT. Uses a bull rush and gets a little push. Quick throw by QB which was incomplete.
Fourth play – lines up over LT. Option play. Jones is unblocked in the backfield. Mis reads the play and ends up stuck in no man’s land while the QB gains 4 yards up the middle.
Fifth play – lines up over RT. High snap again to QB who manages to hang on. Jones is once again unblocked and hits the QB in the backfield but is unable to stop a positive gain of 2 yards.
Sixth play – lines up over LT. Blocked by pulling TE from far side of the formation. Quick throw for a first down by QB.
Seventh play – lines up over RT. Times snap perfectly and is past the RT before he gets out of his stance. Untouched to the QB who is forced to throw the ball away quickly. Intentional grounding.
Eight play – lines up over RT. Explodes past him up field, however the play is a designed QB keeper and the ball is run right where Jones had lined up for a big gain.
Ninth play – lines up over LT. Hand off the back who runs behind LT. Jones can’t disengage until the back is already passed him. Assist with tackle for approx. 5 yards
Tenth play – lines up over LT. Quick sneak. Jones had no chance on this play.
Eleventh play – lines up over RT. Option play, QB kept it. Jones stayed home on this play but his tackle lacked any violence and the QB fell forward for a gain of 2 yards.
Twelfth play – lines up over RT. Hand off to run behind RT. Jones is knocked back two yards off the line and finishes the play on his back.
Thirteenth play – lines up over RT. RT seals the edge allowing QB to make large gain up the middle. Jones shows good hustle to finally tackle the QB and cause a fumble
Fourteenth play – lines up over RT. Unblocked into backfield. Makes good read on RB and makes an athletic tackle. Fumble caused at handoff between QB and RB
Fifteenth play – lines up over LT. Initially blocked by LT and LG also helps out. Incomplete pass. Jones had no impact on incompletion though.
Sixteenth play – lines up over RT. Gets by him with speed but unable to get near QB due to quick throw.
Seventeenth play – lines up over RT. Good burst off the edge and RT can only get a slight hand on him. Runs QB down from behind and forces a fumble although arm coming forward so incomplete.
Eighteenth play – lines up over RT. Unblocked into backfield on QB run. Ankle tap saves this to no gain.
Nineteenth play – lines up over RT. Cut block knocks him down and he is unable to get back into the play.
Twentieth play – lines up over RT. Starts upfield and uses and up and under move to get inside. Ball already thrown though.


Very short sample but here's a few things from it. For such a feared pass rusher there were a lot of times he was unblocked.

The one play where he lined up off the line of scrimmage he appeared to be slow to diagnose the play.

He over ran far too many plays for a guy who has been labeled as "disciplined" in this thread.

I wouldn't be comfortable with him playing off the line of scrimmage on a play by play basis. Once again I am seeing a guy who could be a 34 OLB and a good one but not a lot else.

The big question I have is, is Jarvis Jones a good pass rusher or a good blitzer? I don't see a consistency of pass rush moves or counters in his game. He gets by with explosive burst and good timing of the snap. This aspect of his game is pretty close to Adalius Thomas. Both different types of LB, however neither strike me as a guy who can line up and rush the passer on a consistent basis and be continually successful ala Demarcus Ware
__________________


BoneKrusher killing it with the sig
AntoinCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 03:36 PM    (permalink
DraftSwag
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Burgh
Posts: 58
Reputation: -69
DraftSwag needs more cowbell.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
Getting back to actually discussing Jones' abilities rather than how awesome he is for dominating SEC OTs here's a quick run down of 20 plays against Missouri. They are taken from youtube, but unfortunately we aren't all close with NFL GMs and scouts and don't get access to All 22 film

Against Missouri on youtube

First play – lines up to the left side of the offense. Hand off to the back to the right side. Jones runs across the line unblocked to assist in a tackle for 4 yards. Not a bad play but a play any college LB would make.
Second play – lines up over the RT. High snap over the QBs head. Play blown dead shortly after.
Third play – lines up over LT. Uses a bull rush and gets a little push. Quick throw by QB which was incomplete.
Fourth play – lines up over LT. Option play. Jones is unblocked in the backfield. Mis reads the play and ends up stuck in no man’s land while the QB gains 4 yards up the middle.
Fifth play – lines up over RT. High snap again to QB who manages to hang on. Jones is once again unblocked and hits the QB in the backfield but is unable to stop a positive gain of 2 yards.
Sixth play – lines up over LT. Blocked by pulling TE from far side of the formation. Quick throw for a first down by QB.
Seventh play – lines up over RT. Times snap perfectly and is past the RT before he gets out of his stance. Untouched to the QB who is forced to throw the ball away quickly. Intentional grounding.
Eight play – lines up over RT. Explodes past him up field, however the play is a designed QB keeper and the ball is run right where Jones had lined up for a big gain.
Ninth play – lines up over LT. Hand off the back who runs behind LT. Jones can’t disengage until the back is already passed him. Assist with tackle for approx. 5 yards
Tenth play – lines up over LT. Quick sneak. Jones had no chance on this play.
Eleventh play – lines up over RT. Option play, QB kept it. Jones stayed home on this play but his tackle lacked any violence and the QB fell forward for a gain of 2 yards.
Twelfth play – lines up over RT. Hand off to run behind RT. Jones is knocked back two yards off the line and finishes the play on his back.
Thirteenth play – lines up over RT. RT seals the edge allowing QB to make large gain up the middle. Jones shows good hustle to finally tackle the QB and cause a fumble
Fourteenth play – lines up over RT. Unblocked into backfield. Makes good read on RB and makes an athletic tackle. Fumble caused at handoff between QB and RB
Fifteenth play – lines up over LT. Initially blocked by LT and LG also helps out. Incomplete pass. Jones had no impact on incompletion though.
Sixteenth play – lines up over RT. Gets by him with speed but unable to get near QB due to quick throw.
Seventeenth play – lines up over RT. Good burst off the edge and RT can only get a slight hand on him. Runs QB down from behind and forces a fumble although arm coming forward so incomplete.
Eighteenth play – lines up over RT. Unblocked into backfield on QB run. Ankle tap saves this to no gain.
Nineteenth play – lines up over RT. Cut block knocks him down and he is unable to get back into the play.
Twentieth play – lines up over RT. Starts upfield and uses and up and under move to get inside. Ball already thrown though.


Very short sample but here's a few things from it. For such a feared pass rusher there were a lot of times he was unblocked.

The one play where he lined up off the line of scrimmage he appeared to be slow to diagnose the play.

He over ran far too many plays for a guy who has been labeled as "disciplined" in this thread.

I wouldn't be comfortable with him playing off the line of scrimmage on a play by play basis. Once again I am seeing a guy who could be a 34 OLB and a good one but not a lot else.

The big question I have is, is Jarvis Jones a good pass rusher or a good blitzer? I don't see a consistency of pass rush moves or counters in his game. He gets by with explosive burst and good timing of the snap. This aspect of his game is pretty close to Adalius Thomas. Both different types of LB, however neither strike me as a guy who can line up and rush the passer on a consistent basis and be continually successful ala Demarcus Ware
I think your looking to hard.
DraftSwag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 04:03 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,507
Reputation: 1199061
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

UF is better than Mizzou. Jarvis Jones had a better game against the Gators, and he basically beasted at will against Missouri.

Don't forget that Von Miller didn't become a consensus top 3 pick until AFTER the combine. When you added his elite measurables to his outstanding game film, Von became the best 43 OLB/DE prospect in the 2011 draft.

Jarvis Jones could run a 4.8 at Georgia's pro day and still be a lock top 12 pick. The positives in his game far outweigh any potential downside.
BTW to get a real feel for what a prospect can and cannot do, you need to watch them play consecutive series, not a handful of plays.
How do they play when they're tired?? How do they adjust to an offense schemed to neutralize their effectiveness?? How do they play late in close games??

There are some things you can't get a read on about a prospect unless you watch them play 25+ consecutive snaps in a game.

I've never seen so much jawing over a prospect many already consider one of the top 5 defenders available in the 2013 draft!lol
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 04:06 PM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,800
Reputation: 1665507
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I've never seen so much jawing over a prospect many already consider one of the top 5 defenders available in the 2013 draft!lol
Lol that's the thing though. I don't think anyone here is saying he's not a great prospect. What my point has been is he is not a great prospect simply because he plays and produces in the SEC. I used the above plays because I had easy access to them. Through all the plays it shows strengths and weaknesses (more strengths I will state).
__________________


BoneKrusher killing it with the sig
AntoinCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 04:10 PM    (permalink
Witten4HOF
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,881
Reputation: 296885
Witten4HOF is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Witten4HOF is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Witten4HOF is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Witten4HOF is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Witten4HOF is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Witten4HOF is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Witten4HOF is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Witten4HOF is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Witten4HOF is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Witten4HOF is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Witten4HOF is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

This thread has gone from comparing two players to complete personal attacks on scouting ability. Bottom line everyone is entitled to their opinions about what they see. Personally I don't think Von is a good comparison Jarvis, I think everyone agrees he is a very good prospect and a lock for the top half of round one.

- While Jarvis is a very good athlete he does not have the natural explosion and top end speed that Von uses to get off the snap and close on the ball. That isn't a knock on Jones but a credit to how rare of an athlete Miller was coming into the league.

- I would say Jarvis has an edge in functional strength at the same point of their maturation. That being said neither player is going to be in a favorable position against a 300+ lb lineman once engaged or in a phone booth.

-Both players have active hands in pass rush situations but Miller had the ability to set up moves and counter with his hand fighting while Jones essentially uses his hands to disengage from either the bull or speed rush almost exclusively.

- I think Jones has a better nose for finding the ball and as said earlier finds himself making plays out of his area. Doesn't quit on plays and is very good at finding the ball in pursuit. He isn't great at setting the edge and isn't a strongside player in any scheme day one. Von is a guy you want attacking the LOS more times with not, while Jarvis appears comfortable dropping into zone coverage and can eventually be an asset in that department with continued work.

One thing I worry about with Jarvis is how he pass rushes. At this point he uses his physical gifts to get to the QB and hasn't been forced to refine his technique. He tends to stay vertical more times then not when attacking a tackles outside shoulder rather then displaying a natural bend that is coveted in elite rushers. Not saying that he doesn't have it but he needs to arch at the next level to maintain his acceleration when rounding out a rush lane and it also give less surface space for Lineman to latch onto.
Witten4HOF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 04:19 PM    (permalink
Legacy
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: California
Posts: 1,044
Reputation: 103329
Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
I really think a lot of the draft story on Jones is going to come down to the combine doctors eval on his neck.

Player comparisons aside, that worries me.
It's good to see I'm not the only person on the planet who seems to be concerned with the spinal stenosis diagnosis.

Top prospects drop all of the time because of their injury history, but spinal stenosis is virtually guaranteed to shorten his career. If Southern Cal's doctors wouldn't clear him to play, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of teams take him right off their draft boards after having their doctors evaluate him.
__________________
Legacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 05:19 PM    (permalink
PossibleCabbage
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,094
Reputation: 241113
PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
It's good to see I'm not the only person on the planet who seems to be concerned with the spinal stenosis diagnosis.

Top prospects drop all of the time because of their injury history, but spinal stenosis is virtually guaranteed to shorten his career. If Southern Cal's doctors wouldn't clear him to play, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of teams take him right off their draft boards after having their doctors evaluate him.
Plus, I mean, spinal stenosis virtually guarantees that the first neck injury he has is career ending.

In fact, players with no prior history of spinal stenosis sometimes have their first neck injury be career ending because they develop spinal stenosis after the injury (e.g. Nick Collins.)

I'm not sure if teams will "take him off their board" for this, but I imagine he could get bad medical grades that cause him to slip like DaQuan Bowers did. The key difference is that no matter how bad Bowers' knees are, they won't lead to him being paralyzed at 27 years old.

Just the human calculation of "would I put this guy on the field if he was my kid" is going to work against him with that condition.
PossibleCabbage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 05:26 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,507
Reputation: 1199061
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Well, with the new rookie salary cap, it's not like his first NFL team is going to be on the hook for $30+mil guaranteed money for taking Jones top 5.

We're talking about narrowing of the spinal column?? Potential paralysis??
You would think there would be some kind of procedure Jarvis could undergo to lessen his risk for a life altering injury from playing football.

Wasn't this the reason UGA OLB Pollack retired early from the Bengals??
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 05:32 PM    (permalink
Legacy
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: California
Posts: 1,044
Reputation: 103329
Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Legacy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Well, with the new rookie salary cap, it's not like his first NFL team is going to be on the hook for $30+mil guaranteed money for taking Jones top 5.

We're talking about narrowing of the spinal column?? Potential paralysis??
You would think there would be some kind of procedure Jarvis could undergo to lessen his risk for a life altering injury from playing football.

Wasn't this the reason UGA OLB Pollack retired early from the Bengals??
I am not sure whether David Pollack has spinal stenosis, but it is the reason Marcus McNeill retired.

The wage scale doesn't really factor into this, at least in my opinion. You draft players in the top of the first round expecting that they'll be cornerstone players for your franchise for at least a decade. While some don't work out on the field, the risk with Jones is compounded by the fact that this condition means it'll probably be a miracle if he's able to play in the NFL for 10 years.
__________________
Legacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 06:41 PM    (permalink
DraftSwag
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Burgh
Posts: 58
Reputation: -69
DraftSwag needs more cowbell.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
*shrug* i'm pretty sure you're not even looking.
Lets debate.

Just watched the tape and it's actually impressive and shows his versatility. Not only does he show that he can take on blockers, but the thing that I noticed the most about him is his balance and his ability to change direction when he is engaged. He has relentless pursuit to the football and I completely agree that this guy can play Inside Linebacker. Look how comfortable he is when he drops back into coverage. The dude looks like he's always trying to make a play. Look at the bounce he has and how he's always on his toes. If this guy is a All Pro at OT then Jarvis is gonna be a stud. Another thing that separates Jarvis from lot's of guys I've seen that get hyped up is that he is disciplined. He doesn't just pull his ears back and rush the passer. There is one play where he just blows up the tackle and pushes him back 3 yards. Those are the type of things evaluators look for and to add insult to injury I saw two sacks on that brief highlight????? What's your point.
DraftSwag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 06:47 PM    (permalink
DraftSwag
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Burgh
Posts: 58
Reputation: -69
DraftSwag needs more cowbell.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
my point is that with enough prompting, even you can actually watch film and try to break it down. if only we hadn't wasted so much time with stats and sec earlier.
Lol. I wanna hear your break down, that took me exactly 5 minutes. I forgot guys like you it takes a whole year.
DraftSwag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 06:54 PM    (permalink
DraftSwag
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Burgh
Posts: 58
Reputation: -69
DraftSwag needs more cowbell.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i don't know why you still think my breakdown of him is an issue. have you not read anything i've posted so far in the thread?
It's funny how you always have something smart to say, but when I come at your neck you run away like Urban Meyer. You know what we call guys like you in football. "Pile Jumpers"
DraftSwag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 07:16 PM    (permalink
descendency
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NC State
Posts: 8,130
Reputation: 986277
descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Von Miller, from my eyes, was a rare type of guy. Either he was going to be good in the NFL because he had talents that weren't shown off as well in college as they could have been OR he was going to fail miserably because he was getting by on the best first step(s) ever against some pretty ****** college OTs.

Jarvis Jones is explosive off the edge, but no one has Miller's first steps - at least in college.

Jones seems to be a more holistic LB prospect with less upside.
__________________
I was gone for 2 months doing things I can't talk about. It might happen again, but that's just the nature of what I do and who I am.
descendency is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 08:13 PM    (permalink
TitanHope
Website Contributor
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 13,058
Reputation: 6174150
TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.TitanHope is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by descendency View Post
Jones seems to be a more holistic LB prospect with less upside.
He does have a great energy about him. He probably uses incense.
__________________
Still Team The Ke$ha!!!

[@TDWinstead]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) View Post
Damn Ke$ha is sexy.
TitanHope is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.