NFL Week 9 Discussion Thread. - Page 59

gpngc · 11-05-2012, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

If the Saints win, both of these teams are done for the year.

If the Eagles win, there is still a small glimmer of hope for them, but the Saints should start looking to the draft (and re-signing Payton to an 8+ million a year contract, because he'd be nuts to take less than that right now)

Nope. 8-8 might get you the 6-seed. Everyone has tough schedules except for Seattle, and they are shaky.

gpngc · 11-05-2012, 07:03 PM

Anyway, I had a thought about the Saints. Their defensive personnel is bad, but they've had two previously successful DCs running the show. So what gives? Are they just THAT bad? Has the offense carrying the team not allowed them to add enough defensive talent because of where they pick during each draft?

I've developed a working theory that being a dome team negatively impacts your defense massively in today's NFL. It affects the identity of the team, which impacts everything you do, including personnel decisions, draft choices, and play-calling on both sides of the ball.

In short, that's why the Saints D is always SO bad. Think about it. The Colts D, even when it had good players, was never that good. Have the Lions or Vikings had a top defense in the past 10-15 years? I don't know.

PackerLegend · 11-05-2012, 07:04 PM

Saints win 42-35

njx9 · 11-05-2012, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc

In short, that's why the Saints D is always SO bad. Think about it. The Colts D, even when it had good players, was never that good. Have the Lions or Vikings had a top defense in the past 10-15 years? I don't know.

arizona is currently 8th in yardage, atlanta and arizona are 4th and 5th in points allowed, houston was 4th in points and 2nd in yardage last year, in 2010 atlanta was 5th in points allowed, new orleans was 7th in points and 4th in yards. so no, i don't think that observation has any real merit. the ravens/steelers/eagles/whoever have been the top defenses generally, but there's no causation between that and playing outdoors.

gpngc · 11-05-2012, 07:22 PM

I just can't figure out the Saints.

Their DL on paper is GOOD. They have GOOD players in the secondary. And they added GOOD linebackers.

I can point to a few things in terms of personnel:

1) No pass rusher that can consistently bring heat or command double teams.

2) Weak SLB play

3) Weak pass coverage ability at SS and LB.

After that, it comes down to coaching, and I just don't understand how two guys who have had success in the NFL, could BOTH be this bad.

And the main issue with it all is simply POOR TACKLING. I don't know if you can blame the DC for that or the Saints program in general (Payton and how practices are run) or the players there are simply poor tacklers?

It's just baffling. What was different about the 2009 defense? The only big two personnel differences were Sharper and Charles Grant. I guess they were really THAT important.

The loss of Grant is represented by the no pass rush and the loss of Sharper represented by Jenkins' inconsistency and Harper being asked to cover more.

Rosebud · 11-05-2012, 07:24 PM

The Saints have no standouts on that defense. No dangerous passrushers, no excellent DBs, no one who makes plays.

Ness · 11-05-2012, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc

I just can't figure out the Saints.

Their DL on paper is GOOD. They have GOOD players in the secondary. And they added GOOD linebackers.

Who on that defense is good? Especially in a group? The secondary has good players? Really? Even on paper I don't think any of those groups scare any teams.

descendency · 11-05-2012, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc

Nope. 8-8 might get you the 6-seed. Everyone has tough schedules except for Seattle, and they are shaky.

Two 3-5 teams aren't going to make the playoffs, not because of their records, but because of their inability to win.

The Saints D is terrible and their QB is human outdoors. The Eagles' QB is terrible and their team isn't living upto expectations.

gpngc · 11-05-2012, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

Who on that defense is good? Especially in a group? The secondary has good players? Really? Even on paper I don't think any of those groups scare any teams.

Bunkley, Ellis, and Smith are all good football players.

Hawthorne, Vilma, and Lofton are all good.

Greer and Jenkins.

And I'm not saying to SCARE any team. I'm saying to not be EMBARRASSED every single week like they are. They are a laughingstock.

gpngc · 11-05-2012, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

Two 3-5 teams aren't going to make the playoffs, not because of their records, but because of their inability to win.

The Saints D is terrible and their QB is human outdoors. The Eagles' QB is terrible and their team isn't living upto expectations.

I doubt they BOTH make it. But either EASILY could. Who gets the 6-seed if not one of these teams? You'd have to say Seattle unless you think Detroit can overcome an insane schedule. And Seattle is as shaky as it gets...

I don't buy that Vick all of the sudden is completely done, but that's just me.

Saints-Tigers · 11-05-2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

The Saints have no standouts on that defense. No dangerous passrushers, no excellent DBs, no one who makes plays.

This. No legitimate game changer. Even one guy with one game breaking skill(sharper's ability to create turnovers) makes everyone on the D look a ton better.

Greer is excellent in coverage, Curtis Lofton is pretty damn solid, Jenkins shows flashes, but our pass rushing is so bad that it negatively impacts everything.

ChiFan24 · 11-05-2012, 07:50 PM

Based on this one drive, I have a hard time believing Vick needs to be benched.

CJSchneider · 11-05-2012, 07:50 PM

Bad call, Vitt. That was a catch.

BeerBaron · 11-05-2012, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiFan24

Based on this one drive, I have a hard time believing Vick needs to be benched.

The Saints have that effect on opposing QBs this year.

gpngc · 11-05-2012, 07:53 PM

Nice job Mr. Official! Explanation and all!

WHAT THE **** ANNOUNCERS.

gpngc · 11-05-2012, 07:54 PM

So many people have no idea what it FEELS like to catch a football I swear. That was 100% a catch. You can have control of the football and have it TOUCH the ground. Insane that Gruden agreed with him there.

ChiFan24 · 11-05-2012, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

The Saints have that effect on opposing QBs this year.

I don't necessarily mean that Vick looks good. The play-calling and offensive line looks awful though, against the Saints of all teams, and Vick has done everything he can.