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Old 11-09-2012, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SolidGold View Post
If I am Jacksonville I'd keep the Gabbert and Henne. I know you guys will all bash the **** out of me for saying that...lol.

The talent around them is not good. The offensive line has had issues - I thought they were really smart when they picked Monroe and Britton in the draft a few years ago but Britton has been chronically injured. Monroe is decent. I don't hear much from Marcedes Lewis either - a young QBs best friend is the TE. MJD is a stud but he is injured right now. The playcalling is suspect at best from what I saw last night. Physically I think Gabbert has it all - he has an impressive arm and the prototypical size and speed.

Honestly I would probably take the DT from Utah or Jarvis Jones in this draft or trade down and pick up Barret Jones who is criminally underrated and stockpile draft picks to try and fill as many needs as possible.

I do not think Wilson or Smith are going to make an immediate impact and are an improvement over Gabbert. Gabbert will have had 2 seasons under his belt and that experience matters. If Luck was available I would say yes go ahead and draft Luck. But the QBs in this draft have just as many if not more question marks than Gabbert IMO. I think Geno Smith absolutely screams bust - going from having two potential 1st round draft picks/Percy Harvin like players at WVU to Jacksonville would be a disaster for a guy who relies so much on YAC for his stats.

I know Mr. Moustache man in Jacksonville probably wants to make a splash so he will see Geno Smith and make the skin deep mistake of comparing him to Newton and Griffin and think Geno Smith will have the same impact. So if you are reading this Mr. Khan or anyone else who wants to compare Smith to Griffin and Newton for the obvious reason - guess what he isn't the same type of player!!!
I agree with the idea that you don't jump ship on Gabbert to go take a Geno Smith or Matt Barkley or Tyler Wilson. You bail to take a Luck of a Griffin but not those other guys.

The thing that stood out to me last night, besides the differance in Luck and Gabbert, is how little seperation the Jag's receivers were getting. Is the Colt's secondary that good.
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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I don't mind teams passing on a QB because they just don't feel like he's a franchise guy, but why do people still go on with the excuses about how the team has no weapons, the defense sucks, there is no line, and on and on about how many holes the team has and how any rookie QB would be terrible in that situation. Yet everytime we hear somebody say that, the moment they get a decent QB behind all those terrible instances, everyone all of a sudden looks better.


Jacksonville would be drafting for another 5 years trying to fix all the holes that team has and that's assuming they hit on a majority of their picks in that time, if not then in 5 years they are still saying the same thing about the team and still don't have a QB. I don't even think Jacksonville is as bad as people are making them out to be anyway.


It's hard to say what they have in Blackmon, but he develops as expected, Shorts looks like a good to solid #2, Monroe is a great LT, they have a rotation of backs to keep the defense honest, I mean it doesn't have to be perfect but they have some key pieces in place.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Is the Colt's secondary that good.
Uh, no. Vaughn, Butler, and Gordy are all backups. Tom Zbikowski should be a backup. Antoine Bethea is the only healthy quality player we have in the backfield. Our pass rush was getting to the QB so that may have contributed to what appeared to be good coverage.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Uh, no. Vaughn, Butler, and Gordy are all backups. Tom Zbikowski should be a backup. Antoine Bethea is the only healthy quality player we have in the backfield. Our pass rush was getting to the QB so that may have contributed to what appeared to be good coverage.
It appeared to be good coverage because it was good coverage. They played well... period. Particularly tackling.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
I don't mind teams passing on a QB because they just don't feel like he's a franchise guy, but why do people still go on with the excuses about how the team has no weapons, the defense sucks, there is no line, and on and on about how many holes the team has and how any rookie QB would be terrible in that situation. Yet everytime we hear somebody say that, the moment they get a decent QB behind all those terrible instances, everyone all of a sudden looks better.
Every situation is different. Sometimes it really is the case of a team having a bad offensive line, little to no weapons in the passing game, or the team overall just not being very good. Sometimes coaching might be an issue as well.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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You are completely wrong on Monroe. He is much more than decent. He has been playing at a Pro Bowl level for a while now. I'm not high really on any of these guys (Barkley is my top guy) and Gabbert has shown improvement. However, it's been from worst QB we've seen to terrible. Maybe next year he'll improve from terrible to below average. Then year four he'll be mediocre. After four years, there probably isn't going to be a lot of improvement. So Gabbert, at best, will be a mediocre QB. You don't pass on a potential franchise QB to stick with a guy who could be mediocre.
I just think its to soon to write off Gabbert. He is 23 now, is it better to draft a 23 year old rookie or try to work with a 23 year old kid with 2 years of experience under his belt. They still need to build up a team - its not like the QB is the missing piece of the Jacksonville franchise.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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I just think its to soon to write off Gabbert. He is 23 now, is it better to draft a 23 year old rookie or try to work with a 23 year old kid with 2 years of experience under his belt. They still need to build up a team - its not like the QB is the missing piece of the Jacksonville franchise.
The sooner you move on the better. Gabbert doesn't have "it".
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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The sooner you move on the better. Gabbert doesn't have "it".
But he's playing through an injured shoulder! Clearly, leadership. And such.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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But he's playing through an injured shoulder! Clearly, leadership. And such.
Plus now people have seen Henne in action so Gabbert looks that much better.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Plus now people have seen Henne in action so Gabbert looks that much better.
Matt Cassel must make him look like Tom Brady by that logic!
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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meh. i always go back to david carr/joey harrington now. if there's no flash, especially by the second year, i'm done. it doesn't need to be lighting the world on fire dominance. but something to show me that the guy can really play. while i'd certainly admit i haven't seen all of gabbert's games, i've never seen that spark. i never saw it in brady quinn (in fact, he was the anti-flash-of-anything-good-ever). i never saw it in clausen.

but you can only give the guy so many "well maybe next year...." chances. david carr was never going to be a solid starting qb in the nfl after his second year. nothing could've saved him. harrington was never going to be a solid nfl starter after his second year (i only mention both because, as i remember, there were two rather distinct camps, though carr's was certainly larger). sometimes what you see at first is all you're ever going to see. i don't expect gabbert to ever be more than a decent backup on a team with a tom-brady-starter.



the broncos will drop a game to you, just to ruin your day.
Basically, the "wait 7 years and hope he develops into Alex Smith with a stronger arm" plan.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Plus now people have seen Henne in action so Gabbert looks that much better.
Except Henne moved the ball better and scored the only TD of the night for the Jags.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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It appeared to be good coverage because it was good coverage. They played well... period. Particularly tackling.
Some of it was Jags' playcalling also. It was very predictable. It allowed Colts' corners to cheat a little.

They actually recognized it after the pick-6, Vaughn tried to jump Short's route and allowed a 50-yard play.

They can't gamble like that in every game.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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But they could have last night. Therefore, they played well.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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Plus now people have seen Henne in action so Gabbert looks that much better.
you're 100% right except for the fact that you're 100% wrong.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Clearly, y'all did not see Henne in the Oakland game (duh statement of the week).

He went into Michigan-lock-on mode and fed Shorts the ball in garbage time last night. He's been worse than Gabbert just about every time he's stepped on the field.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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Anyone on that Jags offense not named MJD should quit football.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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Anyone on that Jags offense not named MJD should quit football.
Seriously if you let Darius Butler, probably the most worthless player I have ever seen on a football field, make a game changing play against you then you should quit what you do. Darius Butler, really?
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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Darius Butler is hands down the worst DB that has passed through the Patriots secondary the last few years. And that is seriously saying ALOT.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Darius Butler is hands down the worst DB that has passed through the Patriots secondary the last few years. And that is seriously saying ALOT.
No one's passing on these bad boys:

LCB: Darius Butler
FS: Brandon Meriweather
SS: James Ihedigbo
SCB: Jonathan Wilhite
RCB: Kyle Arrington
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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Good God how was that ever an NFL secondary?
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Good God how was that ever an NFL secondary?
Thankfully it wasn't. It's more of a "worst-of." Duane Starks is a legitimate candidate as well.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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Good God how was that ever an NFL secondary?
But my god were they above average special teamers.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Good God how was that ever an NFL secondary?
P.S. 2008 may have been the worst once Rodney Harrison got hurt again:

LCB: Deltha O'Neal
FS: Brandon Meriweather
SS: James Sanders
SCB: Jonathan Wilhite
RCB: Ellis Hobbs
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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Thankfully it wasn't. It's more of a "worst-of." Duane Starks is a legitimate candidate as well.
This is probably how I'd rank them in terms of poor play:

1) Darius Butler
2) Duane Starks
3) James Ihedigbo
4) Kyle Arrington
5) Deltha O'Neal
6) Terrence Wheatley
7) Brandon Meriweather
8) Jonathan Wilhite

I also don't think the 2008 secondary was really all that bad. Hobbs, Sanders, and even Meriweather weren't bad players in 2008, Meriweather actually looked pretty good until QB's learned how to manipulate him into abandoning his assignments.
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