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Old 11-09-2012, 11:08 PM    (permalink
coltDraftnik
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Default Kawann Short of Purdue @ 3-4 DE?

I'm in Purdue country and my team is the Colts. The only real reason for the Colts to take him is if he can move to end. He is very fast and can close on people. What are some of the factors on DT moving outside? He's only 6'3, but I don't think anybody could run at him.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:02 AM    (permalink
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Yes/No.

I think he could play 5T 2 gap, but I wonder how his motor will look in the 4th quarter when he's gassed. He looks like he's too big (girth) to play DE.
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:02 AM    (permalink
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I agree. It isn't so much whether or not he could do it, but rather where his natural position is. He is built more like Warren Sapp, a prototypical 4-3 DT. While I'm sure he could play the position simply due to his size and athletic ability, I doubt he would reach his full potential because he would be playing out of position.

From what I have seen, the DT's who transition well to a 3-4 DE are the taller/longer tackles with less trunk and more upper body strength. Igor Olshansky comes to mind. Enough sheer mass to be stout against the run, yet light enough on his feet to stretch the run and buy time for linebackers to finish the play.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:58 AM    (permalink
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I think he's a 4-3 tackle all the way. Maybe he can play NT in a 3-4 in some schemes like Dallas or Houston where they ask their NT to 1-gap, a la Jay Ratliff, but to maximize his talent he should be in a 4 man front.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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Purdue uses him at defensive end and out of a two-point stance at times in college, so yes.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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Corey Liuget has done a decent job at it, Short is kind of similar. Don't see why not. But I agree, it's not the best use for either of them.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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The "3-4 ends have to be 6 foot 3" thing is overstated. Most 3-4 teams spend around 50% of the time in nickel anyway, where your DEs don't play the 5-technique at all.

With very rare exceptions, if he can play in a 4-3 he can play in a 3-4.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:29 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
The "3-4 ends have to be 6 foot 3" thing is overstated. Most 3-4 teams spend around 50% of the time in nickel anyway, where your DEs don't play the 5-technique at all.

With very rare exceptions, if he can play in a 4-3 he can play in a 3-4.
The only 3-4 teams that need length are the two gap teams. The Patriots use this at times, but are often in 4 man fronts the last couple of seasons. Chiefs are also a two gap team, they drafted a pure one gap NT in Poe - really he was not suited to their base defense, I guess shows how important the nickel has become.

Ravens and Jets base ask some two gap of their lineman - their base has a "DT", NT and a weakside DE, this is the guy who has to two gap most (Mo Wilkerson for the Jets).

The Steelers version of the 3-4 - so Cardinals, Packers, 49ers and Redskins - in pure base they get asked to two gap, but with so many zone blitzes called it often turns into a one gap scheme. So Ziggy Hood at 6'3" gets away with it.

The Texans, Cowboys and Chargers are all using the Phillips 3-4, which is a pure one gap system. So despite J.J. Watt having a two gap frame, he's a one gap player.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:32 AM    (permalink
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As for Short specifically, only seen two games over here in the UK on ESPN - but have not been impressed. Listed at 310 lbs but looks heavier. Slow - no burst (saw it last year) - know he's had an ankle injury which may explain it. Looks to be a guy you stick over the center to eat up space. Will bow to those who have seen more of him though!
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coltDraftnik View Post
I'm in Purdue country and my team is the Colts. The only real reason for the Colts to take him is if he can move to end. He is very fast and can close on people. What are some of the factors on DT moving outside? He's only 6'3, but I don't think anybody could run at him.
Speaking as a Colts fan, I dont think we need a 3-4 DE. We have Redding and Moala, who are both pretty good at those positions. And we also have Drake Nevis who plays the Kawaan Short role as a pass rushing DT.

With that said, I think on defense we focus on DE/OLB, DB, and NT.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:47 AM    (permalink
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I just watched Short play for the first time tonight. Watched his plays against Notre Dame, and it only took about 30 seconds for my jaw to drop. He's not shaped like a typical pass rusher, but when he's fresh he's lightning quick off the snap, and he routinely blows right by offensive guards. He's incredible at getting off of blocks. He can bullrush guards straight back into the quarterback and also flick them off. He's very agile. I'm not sure if it looks like he has long arms, but he seems to use what length his has to his advantage. By the end of watching it I was thinking he'd be terrific in Red Bryant's role. Also reminds me of Warren Sapp in ways.

Edit: Also didn't realize as I was watching him that Scott had him #2 in the DT rankings. Hadn't gotten into watching D-lineman at all and half-thought I'd discovered something. Makes sense.

Last edited by Caulibflower : 12-17-2012 at 05:04 AM.
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