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Old 11-05-2012, 07:01 AM    (permalink
brasho
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Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
Well, I think we can safely cross RB off our list of needs for the next couple of years.

I was at the game today and Martin did a nice job to shutting that crowd up. He really seemed to be enjoying himself on the sidelines, too. He was trying to pump the Bucs fans up while blowing kisses to the Raiders fans who flipped him off.
That's awesome!
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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There is no outside rush on this team.

Draft the highest rated passrusher. Use him as a Sam in the over in base packages, then as an end on pass sets with Bennett moving inside.

I think AT LEAST two of Mingo, Montgomery, Werner, Moore, and Buchanon will be available at Tampa's pick; all being capable pass rushers.

Wouldn't be upset with the pick of Banks or Milliner either if they pick outside of the top 12-15.
And you don't think our pass rush will be better when Clayborn comes back from injury and Bowers is not coming off of a major injury?

I want us to draft Milliner. We need CB help and looking at Wrights deal you over pay by somewhere around 150% for CB on the open market.

With NFL rules now I think you have to draft and develop CB's like in baseball. Draft, Develop and Play... Try to sign them to a team friendly deals and only break the bank if you get a really good one ( Revis ) type player.

We all know our GM doesn't mind going back to back... So I at all wouldn't mind drafting CB's with round 1/2 picks.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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When Clayborn was healthy our pass rush was still suspect. I just think if there is an elite pass rush talent you gotta pull the trigger. I say build your defense from the line then out. It's worked for the giants.
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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When Clayborn was healthy our pass rush was still suspect. I just think if there is an elite pass rush talent you gotta pull the trigger. I say build your defense from the line then out. It's worked for the giants.
I hear you. I love the way the G Men do business, but they at least have a top 12 CB in Webster. As of right now we have Wright who in my mind is not even a top 30 CB. Who's also been busted for DUI in the offseason and might be facing a 4 game ban. After him it's EJ. I just would like to have a top talent at the CB spot and let the D line of McCoy,Claybron, Bowers, Bennett, Miller and maybe sign a Glenn Dorsey would look fine to me.

But if you told me we were getting the next JPP I would do it in a second
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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I hear you. I love the way the G Men do business, but they at least have a top 12 CB in Webster. As of right now we have Wright who in my mind is not even a top 30 CB. Who's also been busted for DUI in the offseason and might be facing a 4 game ban. After him it's EJ. I just would like to have a top talent at the CB spot and let the D line of McCoy,Claybron, Bowers, Bennett, Miller and maybe sign a Glenn Dorsey would look fine to me.

But if you told me we were getting the next JPP I would do it in a second
Watch Dion Jordan and I'll promise you'll come away impressed.

Also, we don't necessarily need to reach for a CB in round 1. I think we play ourselves out of a draft position for Milliner, who IMO, isn't a top notch CB prospect. After that, I think CBs will get overdrafted. Going after someone in FA and then round 2 and 4 is the way to go. Get physcial CBs. I don't see that in Jonathon Banks to be honest.

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Old 11-08-2012, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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I would love to see us add another high quality DE. Re-signing Bennett has to be a major priority for us, but despite the fact that Bennett and Clayborn are already good DEs and Bowers has the potential to be one, none of these guys are considered real edge rushers. We need a guy that is a serious speed threat off the edge that can force QBs to step up and into the power rushers up front.

The closest thing we have to an edge rusher is Bennett who is more of a power/leverage/speed kind of a guy, but not really a guy that is going to force a QB to constantly be aware of stepping up. Dakoda Watson is the only guy on the roster that can do that but he gets few reps at DE. Clayborn is more of a power/effort rusher and I'm still trying to figure out what Bowers does best, I think he reminds me more of Bennett than anybody else.

What drove the Bucs pass rush years ago was Warren Sapp's inside penetration, his penetration kept QBs from setting their feet to throw and forced them to drift back in the pockiet, while Simeon Rice was a premier edge rusher and forced QBs to step up. The combination of the two was lethal.

Perhaps Dion Jordan COULD be that guy. I'm not sure if he is an every down player at DE... but he could definitely be a guy like Von Miller and Kiwanuka who play the Sam on running downs and goes to DE on passing downs. Another guy I like is Ezekial Ansah of BYU. Jordan should be there when we draft in the late teens early 20's, and Ansah could be there if we opted to trade down (of course if he blows up the combine JPP style, maybe not). In Free agency, my preferred 2nd rounder/3rd rounder from 2009, Michael Johnson, should be available.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:24 AM    (permalink
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Ahh brasho finally we agree on something to a point. I seriously think we should add a big bodies DT in FA along with a vet CB then get a pass rusher and cb the 1st two rounds. Watch Jordan. He's an every down player that is a freakish athlete and edge rusher.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:53 AM    (permalink
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Ahh brasho finally we agree on something to a point. I seriously think we should add a big bodies DT in FA along with a vet CB then get a pass rusher and cb the 1st two rounds. Watch Jordan. He's an every down player that is a freakish athlete and edge rusher.
I always want to draft defensive line. Shouldn't be a huge surprise. I'm just wondering if Schiano's hardnosed approach is going to look at a freakish athlete like Jordan and see him as more of a high risk project.

I think if the team re-signs Michael Bennett, the team will go into round 1 with CB being their major target. I'm not big on taking CBs high in round 1 but I might be on board with this if we can at least get a speedy pass rusher that can get upfield in a hurry on passing downs in round 2 or 3.

I still see TE as a major need. I seriously doubt a TE will ever be a featured part of Sullivan's offense. You have to figure that Sullivan is a disciple of Kevin Gilbride, and Kevin Gilbride is a disciple of June Jones, and Gilbride got his one and only coaching job based on his work as offensive coordinator of Jack Pardee's run and shoot Houston Oilers. Gilbride used TEs in San Diego mostly because he felt he had to. In New York, the Giants didn't hit their stride until Jeremy Shockey was injured and later traded. I get the feeling TEs aren't going to be featured in Sulllivan's offense. Still, we need better blocking from our TEs.

I also view WR as a minor need. Unless Tiquan proves he is definitely THE slot WR, we could use one of those ultra quick Harvin/Welker-type WRs to play the slot while all the attention is focused on the big boys outside the hashes.

I don't see LB as anything close to a need. Our two full-time starters are excellent in David and Foster. Black is good enough for the limited snaps he has been playing and when he has been on the field and considering the limited amount of time he has been on the field, replacing him is neither a priority nor would it be THAT difficult to do. Dakoda Watson has been pushing for snaps the past two seasons and is perhaps our most athletic LB and getting him on the field more (all he does is make plays when he's out there) either at Sam or nickel DE would be beneficial to the team.

I honestly think our two biggest needs are glaring needs that need to be addressed early and often.

CB and DL.

I could see the team doing:
1) CB
2) DT
3) DE
4) TE
4) WR
5) CB
6) OL
7) LB

I think another point of emphasis will be that when/if the team drafts their CB/WR in round 3 or later, that the player will have ample experience and success returning kicks and punts.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Yeah. I agree. Cb DT de are probably the top 3 needs. Terrance knighton is an FA and I see him leaving Jacksonville. He could be a nice plug in next to McCoy and help take off double teams.

Bennett I believe has solidified himself as te long term starter at de. I like Clayborn and bowers but neither have really established themselves as that dominate pass rusher from the edge.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:14 AM    (permalink
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Dominik has some ammo to work with. Remember last year? Only a 4th round pick helped us move up to get Martin and David at certain spots in the draft.

I think he can use that 4th(2 of them) or even 3rd round pick to move up and get a DE and CB in the 1st round as well.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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Dominik has some ammo to work with. Remember last year? Only a 4th round pick helped us move up to get Martin and David at certain spots in the draft.

I think he can use that 4th(2 of them) or even 3rd round pick to move up and get a DE and CB in the 1st round as well.
We're not picking top 5 in the second round this year. So to move back into the 1st round is going to take a little more than a 4th. But if we could somehow draft Jordan and move back into the first using both 4th rounders to get Banks... I would happy.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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Yeah. I agree. Cb DT de are probably the top 3 needs. Terrance knighton is an FA and I see him leaving Jacksonville. He could be a nice plug in next to McCoy and help take off double teams.

Bennett I believe has solidified himself as te long term starter at de. I like Clayborn and bowers but neither have really established themselves as that dominate pass rusher from the edge.
8 sacks as a rookie is pretty damn good...
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:28 AM    (permalink
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8 sacks as a rookie is pretty damn good...
Right!!!! Also 8 sacks when in the second half of the season we were down by 14 to 17 points quick... Not many great pass situations
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:23 AM    (permalink
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My problem with Clayborn is that despite having a non stop motor it seems like all he has is a bull rush. He needs to improve as a pass rusher. He's great against the run but it's a passing league and we need to pressure the qb.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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I can't believe I actually read this whole mess.


The draft position for this team is fluid right now, and we're in a "no man's land" right now between the best pass rushers and the best bump & run CB's.


We'll see how this plays out, but there's a couple players we better avoid like the plague and ebola, respectively. David Amerson and Barkevious Mingo.

Amerson is a classic case of "Looks like Tarzan, plays like Tim Wansley". Sure, he can cover the kid lined up out wide from Austin Peay wearing used soccer cleats and batting gloves... and as great as that is, I see what he does against talent he'll be lining up against every play in an NFL setting. In those situations, Amerson is fail. FAIL. Same deal with Mingo. He's played against NFL type OT's in 3 games against Alabama in 2 years, and he's got 1 PBU and a hurry to show for his talent in 3 games. Granted, the bulk of you are going to say Alabama awesome, Alabama great...... I get it. But again, you don't think Mingo is going to have to face those type of LT's in the NFL on a weekly basis? He won't be getting many games against LT's from Towson and Western Kentucky.
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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Dude I don't think anyone especially myself have been on te mungo or Amerson trail. I said Amerson was overrated even after his 13 int season.
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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I have been doing a little research on Dion Jordan, if he slips to us I would be ecstatic if he falls into our laps. He would not have to be an every down player his rookie season and I can see him being a Robert Quinn type player that flourishes in his second season. Trouble is we have been playing so well of late we could very well be 9-7 or 8-8 which is not a bad thing but unless one of the good DE prospects does something dumb and like fail a drug test right before the combine. This is a pass happy league and if you can even hint at getting after the QB you are going to be going in the top 10 - 15 part of the 1st round. That being said I say we play the numbers and go after BPA if there aren't any good D Line prospects because a player like Amerson maybe a great cover corner but Schiano will not like a hard nose player on his team. Just ask LeGarret "Soon-to-be-Cut" Blount, I like the mindset of the team going forward and the never say die attitude will always leave us into games, we just need more talent and depth to help us move into the upper-echelon of the NFL.

I mentioned before that a good D Line is key and in my opinion draft there early and often and the championships will ensue, just ask the Giants, the Patriots of the early 2000's, and of course our own Warren Sapp Tampa era Bucs.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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Dude I don't think anyone especially myself have been on te mungo or Amerson trail. I said Amerson was overrated even after his 13 int season.


There are other boards..... and more talk than just here.


Post not directed at you, just a pre-emptive strike to those getting that crazy idea.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:48 AM    (permalink
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As badly as we need CBs schiano has said it himself. It all starts up front. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if we got a pass rusher over cb in round 1.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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As badly as we need CBs schiano has said it himself. It all starts up front. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if we got a pass rusher over cb in round 1.


Agreed. In fact, if I were putting money on it today, I would bet that DE is our first pick, followed up by CB in round 2. Given where we're at, it may be Werner, Moore and/or Okafor..... though I wouldn't pass off the idea of what happenned this past April.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Agreed. In fact, if I were putting money on it today, I would bet that DE is our first pick, followed up by CB in round 2. Given where we're at, it may be Werner, Moore and/or Okafor..... though I wouldn't pass off the idea of what happenned this past April.
Werner and okefore are questionable. Moore and Dion Jordan are guys I think will have the elite pass rusher ceiling. Jordan is a freak and reminds many including me of JPP.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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Werner and okefore are questionable. Moore and Dion Jordan are guys I think will have the elite pass rusher ceiling. Jordan is a freak and reminds many including me of JPP.

Actually, I'd prefer that if we took Dion Jordan, and I am leaning that way, we line him up at SLB.... as he reminds me of what Bill Sheridan did with Mathias Kiwanuka. The ability to move Kiwi around, use him in coverage a bit and blitz him from a variety of angles or put his hand in the dirt....


Like it. Though, as with Moore, we may be winning our way out of draft position to get either of them.... at least without a trade up.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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Agreed. In fact, if I were putting money on it today, I would bet that DE is our first pick, followed up by CB in round 2. Given where we're at, it may be Werner, Moore and/or Okafor..... though I wouldn't pass off the idea of what happenned this past April.
At this point it's way to early to be putting money down, lol. Hell I would not put it past Dominick to go back to back CB's with the first two picks.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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What would you guys think if we snagged Eric Reid in the first round if we are picking in the 20's and he is BPA? There's the LSU connection with Cooper. Taking a FS in the first round is probably not practical with all the other holes, Ahmad Black seems to be the heir apparent anyways, but dam Barron and Reid would be a sick safety tandem.

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Old 11-16-2012, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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What would you guys think if we snagged Eric Reid in the first round if we are picking in the 20's and he is BPA? There's the LSU connection with Cooper. Taking a FS in the first round is probably not practical with all the other holes, Ahmad Black seems to be the heir apparent anyways, but dam Barron and Reid would be a sick safety tandem.
They would be but I think taking back to back safeties in 2 years isn't going to happen.

Xavier Rhodes has really caught my attention. He may not have the flashy numbers in INTs but he locks down opposing Wrs and the only big play I saw him give up was against Clemson where they were in zone and the safety missed his assignment for a 45 yard gain.
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