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Old 11-12-2012, 12:44 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Mike Brown was no better with the Cavs, he just had LeBron and a very weak eastern conference, that he still only managed to get through just the once. He's just not a very good coach and one who's especially clueless on the offensive end.

D'Antoni's no Phil but he's on another level than Mike Brown, his resume with the Suns was great, while talented, those were flawed teams in a strong conference who still made noise in the playoffs and even should've beaten the Dynasty Spurs in 07. With Nash and Dwight he has about as perfect of building blocks as he could want. Add the very intelligent Kobe and Gasol and that unit will be fantastic for him. The question is, how much of the rest of the team does D'Antoni trust and I think you'll be surprised. He really got better at reaching into his bench and finding uses for flawed players on the Knicks as he hadn't really used too small of a rotation since we cleared up all of Isiah's mistakes.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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The only player this benefits is Nash really so I don't see the logic there. Kobe can thrive in any offense really, but Dwight and Gasol won't be utilized nearly enough under Pringles. Running up and down the court, catching lobs and weak-side rebounding hastily taken jumpers isnt utilizing Howard enough.
That offense will be built off the Nash to Dwight PnR. Dwight is gunna put up some crazy numbers once they all get acclimated.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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The only player this benefits is Nash really so I don't see the logic there. Kobe can thrive in any offense really, but Dwight and Gasol won't be utilized nearly enough under Pringles. Running up and down the court, catching lobs and weak-side rebounding hastily taken jumpers isnt utilizing Howard enough.
How did they decide on Mike D over Phil freaking Jackson????

Kobe MUST have been anti-Phil...
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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It sounded like Phil had a boat load of demands, including which road games he felt like going to. I don't blame them for not going with him. If you're going to coach, then coach every game.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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It sounded like Phil had a boat load of demands, including which road games he felt like going to. I don't blame them for not going with him. If you're going to coach, then coach every game.
That and Phil bailing in a year or two make sense...but I still can't believe they said no to Phil Jackson. I'm hoping this pisses him off enough to take over the Knicks and get us a ring just to spite the Lakers.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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That and Phil bailing in a year or two make sense...but I still can't believe they said no to Phil Jackson. I'm hoping this pisses him off enough to take over the Knicks and get us a ring just to spite the Lakers.
Don't worry, you guys will just get Thibs in 2018 when his contract runs out because you will offer him more money than the Bulls and he really wants to go back to coach in NY because he once coached there or something.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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How did they decide on Mike D over Phil freaking Jackson????

Kobe MUST have been anti-Phil...
No, Phil was asking for the moon

- Coaching only half of our road games
- Small percentage of ownership
- Personnel power/control
- Same salary from his previous stint, which was one of the riffs between him and the Lakers previously and one of the reasons he decided to retire.

My take, Phil told his agent to "go for broke" to gauge how desperate they were and see what they were willing to surrender. He was going to scale back on some of the demands and iron out a deal sometime today. He never got the chance because while he was asking for all of this, Pringles was just happy to be considered and would go along with whatever Buss and Mitch wanted. And he'd cost easily half of what Phil would(they still have to pay Brown the rest of his salary).

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Old 11-12-2012, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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OK that makes sense then. Damn.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Don't worry, you guys will just get Thibs in 2018 when his contract runs out because you will offer him more money than the Bulls and he really wants to go back to coach in NY because he once coached there or something.
Whatever, right now I'm just hoping that we are that team that everyone makes fun of for being so old, but goes on a crazy run just so everyone can go out with a bang.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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That offense will be built off the Nash to Dwight PnR. Dwight is gunna put up some crazy numbers once they all get acclimated.
We don't have the outside shooting to make it work

We don't have the athleticism on the wings to make it work

If you have 4 All-Stars and your basing your whole offense solely around two players, are you operating at maximum efficiency?

It won't work. The main problem with this team is bench scoring/depth and defense. Hiring Pringles fixes neither of those. Might actually worsen one of those. If you can't defend at least a little, you will won't get out of the West...its that simple. Forget defending we barely even slow teams down. This **** is not going to end well.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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The only player this benefits is Nash really so I don't see the logic there. Kobe can thrive in any offense really, but Dwight and Gasol won't be utilized nearly enough under Pringles. Running up and down the court, catching lobs and weak-side rebounding hastily taken jumpers isnt utilizing Howard enough.
That's the confusing part. This mostly relies on the old players in LA and not the young talented player the Lakers just had a jizz fest over.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Whatever, right now I'm just hoping that we are that team that everyone makes fun of for being so old, but goes on a crazy run just so everyone can go out with a bang.
Oh I know, I was just giving you guys a hard time for all the Knick fans for the past year that acted like it was a inevitable that Thibs would be coaching the Knicks because why wouldn't he want to?
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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That's the confusing part. This mostly relies on the old players in LA and not the young talented player the Lakers just had a jizz fest over.
My only take is they're preparing really early for life without Kobe. If they win and Kobe gets a 6th, fine....but they can look Kobe in the eye aftwer a year or two and say hey, we gave you Dwight and Nash....we tried. Meanwhile they tweak the roster in the next two years that favors D'Antoni and a more uptempo style that maybe keeps Dwight interested in staying, while drawing some more athleticism and scoring options in free agency. This keeps fans in their seats and excited for the new version of "showtime" basketball. Dr. Buss is a businessman first. He sees what's going over there with Lob City and sees the Clippers playing a more exciting brand of basketball. Its been said that Dr. Buss was the one that made the call to fire Brown and that he was the first to mention D'Antoni.

Or maybe I'm just reading too much into things.... wouldn't be the first time.

And also think Mitch and Buss might have secretly wanted to get away from the triangle. Phil's demands just gave them the leverage to justify looking elsewhere. There have been grumblings that just like the Princeton, its was too rigid for the modern NBA game and had run its course.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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We're so ******....
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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We're so ******....
I'm trying not to be negative, honestly. But I felt this exact way when they hired Brown. I hope I'm dead wrong. I hope I can come back in here in July and say that Pringles is best coaching mind ever. But this roster looks to have too many holes for a coach like D'Antoni. And I'm unsure about where some of the starters fit in. But anything should be better than Mike Brown at this point so Im going to try and keep a open mind. But its ******* hard to see the forest from the trees right now.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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I hate D'Antoni but the Lakers can still win the West. OKC isn't as good, the Spurs are still the Spurs in the playoffs and I love the Clips but their frontcourt is an issue.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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I hate D'Antoni but the Lakers can still win the West. OKC isn't as good, the Spurs are still the Spurs in the playoffs and I love the Clips but their frontcourt is an issue.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Are you introducing the Wolves into the discussion or arguing against a point?
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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So I was sortta right....

Quote:
Between the hours of Mike Brown's firing and a meeting on Saturday morning with history's most accomplished coach, Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak privately told people there was one candidate: Phil Jackson.
Jackson wanted to humiliate Lakers vice president Jim Buss far more than he wanted to coach the team. He wanted significant allowances on travel, coaching duties and an ability to veto player personnel moves that didn't fit his vision.

With an unprecedented 11 coaching championships, Jackson had every right to make unprecedented demands. He doesn't have the right to be surprised when the Lakers rejected them and hired a pliable, cheaper coach in Mike D'Antoni.

"Phil wanted Jim Buss to walk away with his tail between his legs," one source with knowledge of the discussions told Yahoo! Sports. "He thought he had time to still negotiate with them, and see how much they would give him."

Now, the Lakers are going out of their way to spare Jackson the embarrassment of his overreaching, but this is pointless spin. They're working with him to sell the public that he hadn't asked for too much, that somehow the franchise chose D'Antoni over Jackson on sheer merit. It's noble, but laughable. Jackson heard those chants in the Staples Center and never believed the Lakers had the guts to call his bluff before circling back to him on Monday.
"Phil's assistants convinced him that they had his back on the concerns [Jackson] had about his load as head coach, and he was ready to get a deal done on Monday," a source with knowledge of the talks said.

"But this was about Jim Buss giving him a royal you-know-what in the end." If Jackson was ever to return to coaching to chase a championship in a preferred locale, this job offered him the opportunity. His instincts were wrong on how to play these negotiations and it blew up on him. The Lakers could live with making Jackson the highest-paid coach in the NBA again, but Jackson had to come back in full, and the Lakers were wise to have uncertainties.

Jackson listened to Kobe Bryant gush and gush about him on Friday night, and believed the strongest voice in the locker room would accept only his return the bench. It was a mistake. Bryant preferred Jackson, but he has a history with D'Antoni back to his childhood growing up in Italy and across several years of USA Basketball. Bryant and D'Antoni have a relationship, a trust, and that's somewhere to start once they're thrust together.

Once Jackson couldn't come to terms on Saturday, Bryant had prepared himself for the fact that D'Antoni would ultimately become the coach. For the Lakers' good, D'Antoni needs to have used his three-plus seasons in New York to have grown as a coach, as a leader, or this will go terribly for him in Los Angeles.

Lakers owner Jerry Buss opted to sign Mike D'Antoni rather than meet Jackson's demands. (AP)

When everything had become too hard with the New York Knicks, D'Antoni walked into the office one morning and surrendered. Carmelo Anthony had stopped listening to him, stopped running his plays, and ownership never supported the coach. When Anthony grumbled to Bryant about D'Antoni's defensive acumen on a trip to Los Angeles before the coach's resignation in New York, one witness says Bryant shot back to Anthony – only half-kidding – that, seriously, when the hell have you ever played defense?

D'Antoni has been run out of two jobs and should be past the obsession he had over needing to win with his system, his way. These won't be the seven-seconds-or-less Lakers. They'll play plenty of pick-and-roll, but the biggest issue for D'Antoni's defense has never been where it was ranked in the league, but how the Suns players – including Steve Nash – never believed they were prepared for the big possessions, the big moments, in series with San Antonio. There was a discipline missing, a mindset, an understanding, in those moments of truths.

D'Antoni is notoriously sensitive to criticism, but he needs to be honest with himself to get the most out of these Lakers now, out of himself here. They never spent practice time on defense, because D'Antoni's offensive system was his genius, what got him into the NBA, got him millions, and his personal mandate was forever validating it. Now, he's older. These are the Lakers and D'Antoni has to understand: This isn't about his vision, but winning.

Within the organization, Kupchak and the coaching staff understood this: Dwight Howard can make D'Antoni a far, far better defensive coach. For now, the staff believes Howard is still a shell of himself, that mobility in his back still isn't close to returning for another month, maybe two.

Stan Van Gundy has already reached out to D'Antoni and encouraged him to keep assistant coach Steve Clifford on his staff. Clifford had a strong history of working with Stan in Orlando and Jeff Van Gundy in Houston and had gone to the Lakers to join Mike Brown's staff. As much as anyone, he understands how to incorporate an individual's flaws into the greatness of Howard's ability to dominate on the defensive end.

Over the summer, Jackson continued to tell people he was retired as a coach. He didn't want the job anymore. Once Los Angeles made the deal for Howard, his prism on returning to the Lakers changed again. Along with Bryant, Howard was the reason that a 12th title was possible for Jackson. Howard was the investment that made it easier for the Busses to buy out Brown's contract and make Jackson the highest-paid coach in the NBA again.

Jackson had his chance, and the strangest thing happened: The greatest coach in history overreached, misread the circumstances and had someone tell him "no" on Sunday night. The Lakers never picked Mike D'Antoni over Jackson. They picked him over desperation for Jackson. Maybe the Busses will regret the choice, but if Jackson truly wanted to coach again, no one will ever regret this more than him. These are still the Lakers, and nowhere else in basketball does this opportunity at this moment in time come along – even for Phil Jackson.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--la...-11051709.html
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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Are you introducing the Wolves into the discussion or arguing against a point?
Introducing the Wolves (and Nugs) to the discussion. But the Wolves checklist...

A Star? Kevin Love
A great perimeter (and sometimes interior defender? Andrei Kirilenko
A PG that can defend and create for his teammates? Ricky Rubio
Solid backup big? Stiemsma
Shooters? Well, they'll get there...
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Stop it Corey.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Introducing the Wolves (and Nugs) to the discussion. But the Wolves checklist...

A Star? Kevin Love
A great perimeter (and sometimes interior defender? Andrei Kirilenko
A PG that can defend and create for his teammates? Ricky Rubio
Solid backup big? Stiemsma
Shooters? Well, they'll get there...
I love you Brody, but no. Wolves are too soft and really? Rubio's defense? Coming off major knee injury? Andrei Kirilenko a great player? What is great? Top 20?

Wolves do not have the horses to make it in the West.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Rubio is a good defender and he didn't get by on being athletic in the first place, he'll be fine there.

Kirilenko is a great player, he never said top 20...

A lack of shooting is what's going to hold us back, especially with Budinger out now.

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Old 11-12-2012, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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We don't have the outside shooting to make it work

We don't have the athleticism on the wings to make it work

If you have 4 All-Stars and your basing your whole offense solely around two players, are you operating at maximum efficiency?

It won't work. The main problem with this team is bench scoring/depth and defense. Hiring Pringles fixes neither of those. Might actually worsen one of those. If you can't defend at least a little, you will won't get out of the West...its that simple. Forget defending we barely even slow teams down. This **** is not going to end well.
Outside shooting isn't the only way to create space, Pau and Kobe's intelligence and passing can accomplish the same things, plus the trading deadline's far away. The Lakers were gunna have a tough time winning it all without some moves at the deadline, regardless of who's coaching the team.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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I love you Brody, but no. Wolves are too soft and really? Rubio's defense? Coming off major knee injury? Andrei Kirilenko a great player? What is great? Top 20?

Wolves do not have the horses to make it in the West.
Rubio's an incredibly smart defender, not like he's Ty Lawson and jumps around like a bean. He just knows how to play the pass lanes and stay in front of his man. And AK-47 is a top 30 player, if that's what you're asking. I think they're a COMPLETELY different team with Love around, and if Love can remain a good shooter and Shved/Barea/Ridnour/Roy can pick it up otherwise, I think they'll be fine there. Just saying, watch out.
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