NBA Discussion Thread - Page 3049

soybean · 11-15-2012, 04:36 PM

so this happened...

VAfy-ya · 11-15-2012, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

He's a 7 footer. And defensive player of the year.

There's a big difference btw a 7 foot defensive player of the year and a dime a dozen PF who can rebound and pass the ball.

So he's a role player.....clearly replaceable right? He's clearly not a star player...

bigbluedefense · 11-15-2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

So he's a role player.....clearly replaceable right?

No. Because 7 foot players (7 1" in this case) aren't a dime a dozen. 6 10" players are a dime a dozen.

thefalconer · 11-15-2012, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comahan

Youtube Game of the Day

3/19/00, Lakers vs. Knicks

Shaquille O'Neal, A.C. Green, Glen Rice, Kobe Bryant, Ron Harper
Patrick Ewing, Larry Johnson, Latrell Sprewell, Allen Houston, Charlie Ward

lol camby was on that team.

SickwithIt1010 · 11-15-2012, 04:46 PM

Ummm the Lakers played good defense under the Zen Master. We played better defense under him than we did under Brown.

draftguru151 · 11-15-2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Other than Cole, Allen, and Lewis, your depth sucks. Joel Anthony blows. Miller blows. Haslem blows.

It doesn't matter though.

Mike Miller scored 23 points in a finals game. Melo has 0 points in the NBA finals. Boom.

VAfy-ya · 11-15-2012, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

The Lakers always played defense under Phil Jackson.

Says who? Lakers were a middle of the pack defensively, mostly because they had a young Kobe, Shaq in his prime, and a underrated guy like Fisher. Or do you not remember those Kings teams killing us? Look at what the Mavs did to us his last year as a coach? The Celtics in '08. His best defense as the Laker coach was a better offense. Phil was a marginal defensive coach in his time in L.A.

VAfy-ya · 11-15-2012, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

No. Because 7 foot players (7 1" in this case) aren't a dime a dozen. 6 10" players are a dime a dozen.

6'11....but he's not a star player. And only star players matter according to you.

SickwithIt1010 · 11-15-2012, 04:51 PM

Those Kings teams killed everyone. They would have had a ring or 2 had the Lakers not been so dominant and didnt get one taken away from them.

bigbluedefense · 11-15-2012, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by draftguru151

Mike Miller scored 23 points in a finals game. Melo has 0 points in the NBA finals. Boom.

We'll see you guys in the ECF. Then all bets are off.

bigbluedefense · 11-15-2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

6'11....but he's not a star player. And only star players matter according to you.

Chandler is a star player. He was the starting Center for Team USA and an All Star, and defensive player of the year.

I don't see anyone crowding the ballots for Anderson ******* Varejo.

VAfy-ya · 11-15-2012, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010

Ummm the Lakers played good defense under the Zen Master. We played better defense under him than we did under Brown.

Mike Brown had a aging and hobbled Kobe and a over the hill Arrest as his two best defensive players. You can't compare the two.

VAfy-ya · 11-15-2012, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Chandler is a star player. He was the starting Center for Team USA and an All Star, and defensive player of the year.

I don't see anyone crowding the ballots for Anderson ******* Varejo.

Chandler isn't a star. Star players don't average 9 points a game. He's a very good defensive player and rebounder. He happens to be a seven footer so that makes him more attractive. Gasol is a 7 footer also but you aren't beating the bushes for him to join the Knicks. You bash him every chance you get. My point is using your logic, Tyson Chandler is easily replaceable.

And he was only a All-Star because somebody needed to play center in the East. And if Dwight and Bynum both aren't hurt, he isn't a Olympian either.

LTgiants · 11-15-2012, 05:08 PM

Just for the record Tyson Chandler has never been a All Star.

VAfy-ya · 11-15-2012, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTgiants

Just for the record Tyson Chandler has never been a All Star.

Awww, he got me....knew I should have checked because 'Chandler' and 'All-Star' didn't sound like a match.

y.f.s. · 11-15-2012, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabears10

I hope you would then read the Grantland oral history that was just released. It is pretty great.

Also, Gasol Dream Shake:

That was one of them. I've also been re-reading parts of TBOB and there were some really good portions on them in there, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bantx

How do you think the mavericks won the year before? With depth.

I actually think this lends to what BBD is saying....a team like the Mavs puts everything together and wins the title, like, once every 10 years or so.

You basically need a Hall of Famer/"Top 5 in history at his position" player, and an All Star/"Top 5 at his position RIGHT NOW" player, bare minimum.

Those Isaiah Piston teams are probably the best counter example - nobody averaged 20 PPG on the first Piston championship team (only time in NBA history this has happened). But you have to figure too, Isaiah is the best "pure" PG of all time, Rodman is the best role player of all time, and Dumars is arguably the best defensive guard of all time, and pretty much anybody on their team could score. They weren't exactly a team of scrubs/role players.

Wootylicous · 11-15-2012, 05:25 PM

What is this I don't even...

Forenci · 11-15-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

My point still stands. Role players are overrated. If I have the chance to trade a whole bench worth of role players for 1 star player, I'll do it 9 out of 10 times.

You always see these NBA trades that wind up being 10 cents on the dollar for a star player. Why? Bc GMs get suckered into this idiotic belief that their scrub bench players are too valuable to let go.

Look at the Melo trade again. This board thinks we got "raped"

Really?

What did we lose? And what did we gain? We stole Melo. We lost Gallo, Chandler, Felton (who we got back 1 year later) and a ****** Russian Center.

Whoopidy damn doo. We got Melo on 10 cents on the dollar.

I never argue that point. It was just stupid when everyone and their mother knew Melo was coming to the Knicks. Plus Melo is massively overrated by people such as yourself. My only argument at the time was why get rid of all these valuable pieces when you knew Melo wanted to be in New York?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Thank you.

When the Lakers and their ****** depth play the Heat and their ****** depth in the Finals, I'd love to hear from all the basketball purists on here how that happened.

What? The Heat pretty much won BECAUSE of their role players, like DG said. Sure LeBron going off was a huge factor, but so was the contributions of the roleplayers when Wade or Bosh struggled. You keep ignoring that and it's hilarious. Without Battier, Chalmers and others knocking down huge threes non stop there is a damn good chance we're having a different discussion.

y.f.s. · 11-15-2012, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

What? The Heat pretty much won BECAUSE of their role players, like DG said. Sure LeBron going off was a huge factor, but so was the contributions of the roleplayers when Wade or Bosh struggled. You keep ignoring that and it's hilarious. Without Battier, Chalmers and others knocking down huge threes non stop there is a damn good chance we're having a different discussion.

How much ire did the Heat's role players garner in the regular season? Cuz I remember a lot of bitching about pretty much anybody who wasn't Lebron/Wade.

That's the thing with role players...they're inherently inconsistent. They need one or two useful skills and that's pretty much it. Their skills are largely replaceable.

Put another way....did Battier, Chalmers, and Miller do anything that Peja, Tony Allen, and Barbosa couldn't reasonably replicate? Or any other number of role players? To say the Heat won because of their role players is beyond the realm of absurdity. They contributed and hit open shots.

******* Trevor Ariza had some huge steals in the playoffs and shot 50% from 3 in the Finals and was promptly never heard from again. Actually, he's shooting 34% from the floor for the Wizards right now.

VAfy-ya · 11-15-2012, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s.

How much ire did the Heat's role players garner in the regular season? Cuz I remember a lot of bitching about pretty much anybody who wasn't Lebron/Wade.

That's the thing with role players...they're inherently inconsistent. They need one or two useful skills and that's pretty much it. Their skills are largely replaceable.

Put another way....did Battier, Chalmers, and Miller do anything that Peja, Tony Allen, and Barbosa couldn't reasonably replicate? Or any other number of role players?

I think the point is, they don't win without the role players stepping up....not necessarily who they are. The Heat role players stunk for much of the playoffs. And they were nearly knocked outt by the C's because it. Their role players finally show up and they beat the Thunder in 5....coincidence?

And some role players are more consistent than others and thus, should be a priority.

Forenci · 11-15-2012, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s.

How much ire did the Heat's role players garner in the regular season? Cuz I remember a lot of bitching about pretty much anybody who wasn't Lebron/Wade.

That's the thing with role players...they're inherently inconsistent. They need one or two useful skills and that's pretty much it. Their skills are largely replaceable.

Put another way....did Battier, Chalmers, and Miller do anything that Peja, Tony Allen, and Barbosa couldn't reasonably replicate? Or any other number of role players? To say the Heat won because of their role players is beyond the realm of absurdity. They contributed and hit open shots.

******* Trevor Ariza had some huge steals in the playoffs and shot 50% from 3 in the Finals and was promptly never heard from again. Actually, he's shooting 34% from the floor for the Wizards right now.

Well of course they aren't going to win without that consistent production from their stars. That's what makes stars so great. They give you night in and night out consistent performance. ANY role player can have a great night, but its few and far between. The fact that players like Battier were so damn good during the playoffs is a huge part of why they won. If Battier still decided to play like garbage all season, good chance that the Heat don't win.

You're trying stretch my words big time. If the Heat had completely garbage role players they don't win.

gpngc · 11-15-2012, 06:16 PM

Eric Bledsoe is good.

SickwithIt1010 · 11-15-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob S

lolwut? Wade is way more efficient than Kobe. Wade is probably close to 50% FG for his career. Unless you mean just pure shooting (Kobe isn't an efficient "shooter" anyway though so I don't really get the point), then I agree.....that's not to say Wade can't reinvent his game in another way though....Kobe's post game got insane, no reason why Wade can't do the same thing and pull out an previously unseen offensive skill after a summer of hard work.

Kobes mid range game and post game started becoming elite way before he ever hit Wade's age that he's at now.

SickwithIt1010 · 11-15-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

Mike Brown had a aging and hobbled Kobe and a over the hill Arrest as his two best defensive players. You can't compare the two.

Pretty sure you can, Brown prides himself on being a defensive guru...that **** was far from....guru-ness??

VAfy-ya · 11-15-2012, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010

Pretty sure you can, Brown prides himself on being a defensive guru...that **** was far from....guru-ness??

He's a good defensive coach. No one ever called him a "guru" of anything. And if you look at the numbers last year, versus Phil's last year, the defense did improve. Not by much, but it did improve.